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@J. Kenji Lopez-Alt ......They're probably a few different Butterball Turkey products out there.For example; natural butterballs versus "self basting" butterballs.I've cut quite a few butterball turkeys in half on a band saw at work,and they certainly do have either a margarine solution or what I think looks like butter flavor crisco all in the middle of the turkey.Kinda looks gross.

I'm wondering if you know how much actual salt the brining technique adds to the bird; I've got relatives who never salt their food and I'm curious if I can argue that not that much salt ends up in the bird.

If herbs etc don't end up in the meat via the brine, how about sugar?

I'm trying to work on a really satisfying vegetarian burger - are you saying that marmite might help there too?

I always brine my birds - and start them upside down in a very hot oven. The result is spectacularly juicy birds that have prompted guests to remark, "This doesn't even need gravy!"

(who needs gravy?? I always thought it more of a passionate desire)

@hmw0029

I've never tried it with turkey, but I've tried injecting a chicken with melted butter in the past. I wasn't a big fan. It doesn't help keep the meat juicy - if you take the meat beyond 150 degrees, it dries out no matter what, so what you end up with is dry meat surrounded by butter. It still has that awful chalky texture in your mouth. It also just makes the bird taste like butter, instead of like a bird. It's kind of like grinding butter into your hamburgers. It adds some flavor and some fat, but in the end, it becomes a weaker expression of a burger.

For that reason, I'm actually even personally opposed to brining turkey in general - it ends up juicier, but you have more diluted turkey flavor. But to each their own - most people who have tried brined turkey swear by it.

@oscarb The LA Times did a "Great Turkey Smackdown" a few years back and the dry "brining" technique emereged as the winner.
http://www.latimes.com/theguide/holiday-guide/food/la-fo-turkeycontest,0,3586629.story

@meat guy

wow - that's interesting to know re: butterballs . I guess the name used to make sense!

I'm working on a recipe for a turkey burger right now, and adding hydrolyzed veg protein and yeast extract are definitely on my list of tests. It's amazine what a difference a little yeast extract can make in the meatiness of your finished dish. It works great in stews and sauces as well (you can buy it in the international aisle - Vegemite or Marmite)

@Burger365

You're right. Adding flavorings to your brine has a pretty minimal effect on the flavor of the meat. That's because the meat has a higher affinity for the sodium ions than it does for most common flavor compounds. When you put your meat in the brine, salt will selectively migrate into the meat, which basically means that there is less room for the other flavorings.

If you want to maximize marinating/brining, you should do two separate soaks. First, marinate your meat in a salt-free flavorful marinade. After that, brine it as usual. The flavor will come out much more distinctly.

Also, bear in mind that unless they are in solution, flavors won't enter the meat. So adding whole herbs to a marinade will have minimal effect unless you first bruise them, chop them, or otherwise rupture their cell structure so that they release flavor into the liquid.

@Trilby
you can do it in a large vessel in the fridge, or in a double layer of oven bags or garbage bags (set them inside a roasting pan to catch any leaks).

You can also brine your turkeys in a cooler out of the fridge. Just add enough ice packs to keep it cool through the night. Ice packs work better than ice cubes because they won't dilute the brine as they melt.

@meat guy

I think some manufacturers do inject oil into the breasts (I've never heard of hydrogenated oil or margarine though), but butterballs don't. It's just a brine:

These are the ingredients from their website:

Ingredients: Turkey, Water, Salt, Modified Food Starch, Sodium Phosphates, Natural Flavorings.

As for a cooked chuck roast, I think it's more than just the fat - it's the conversion of the collagen in its copious connective tissue into gelatin that keeps it well-lubricated in your mouth. That conversion takes temperatures of at least 160 degrees, and plenty of time to take place. I think the statement that "fat makes things juicy" is a pretty common misconception, though I haven't yet done any rigorous tests to prove it. But I've certainly eaten larded meats that are dry, and well marbled steaks that are dry, and fatty salmon that is dry. If something is overcooked, all the fat in the world won't save it - unless, like a chuck roast or a pork butt or a short rib, there is plenty of connective tissue to make gelatin and lubricate the dried-out muscle.

Actually Butterballs are juicy and with that texture is not due to brine. Butterball uses an injection system to place margarine into the breast of the raw bird, so it is basically like making a larded roast. Fatty, buttery tasting. Fat is a greater contributor to lasting juiciness than water. Think of how tender and juicy a slow cooked fatty chuck roast is, the moisture is cooked out but the fat makes it juicy. Melt some butter and inject that into the breast if you really want juiciness. Most other processors use a salt brine containing flavorings and phosphates to enhance moisture retention. Phosphates will actually make the product moister at the far safer fully cooked range of 160F internal, though the meat may stay pink.

Brilliant! This will be my first year hosting Thanksgiving, and I've been wondering about brining. Thank you!

Coincidentally, I was just talking about gluten formation the other day...

Thanks, Kenji! Norman Rockwell is rolling in his grave a little, but hey :)

I have only ever made one Thanksgiving turkey (am a recent arrival to US) and I basically pretended I was cooking a very large version of Thomas Keller's "poulet roti a ma facon." So I salted my unbrined, unstuffed bird like crazy--with coarse salt--and put it in a roaring hot (450) oven for 2 hours. Didn't touch it or baste it during that time. Fast and moist, but, like I say, I don't have a lot to compare it to.

Which is all to say that if you ever feel like doing a exhaustive, and surely exhausting, comparison of methods, I would be very eager to see how that method stands up. I won't hold it against you if you don't, though.

@Michele Humes

Yes - cooking a turkey whole is always a problem because of the difference in cooking between the breasts and the legs. I decided for myself a couple of years ago that the benefits of having a whole turkey arrive at the table are far outweighed by the benefits of cooking the breasts and legs separately. Taste trumps appearance in my book!

I'll be working up a recipe for turkey that'll appear in this column in 2 weeks (in time for Thanksgiving!) that'll address these very issues.

For now, I've found that to get tender meat and crisp skin, the best way is a two-stage cooking process. Once at low temperature (around 200-250, or even lower) until the turkey is cooked through, followed by a rest at room temp for at least half an hour, and then finishing it in a really hot oven (around 500) just to crisp up the skin.