Serious Eats - seriouseats.com

Multi grain bread! This looks like a great cookbook!!!

I concur. I think the #s just mess people's mind when they're ordering food. I mean, food is supposed to be nourishment and enjoyment. When you tag a # next to a food item, then you're taking away its purposes. There's a restaurant chain in Japan that does exactly the same thing. I was going to order a dessert, but after seeing that it's going to 'cost' me 600 calories, I skipped it and ordered tea instead. The restaurant just lost some businesses as well. What's most important is to consume whole foods and not processed products.

I would be curious to know what others think of recent city laws (in New York and, more recently, Boston) requiring chain restaurants to post calorie information for all items on their menus.

I am recovering from anorexia and, like tangledgray, find myself triggered by anti-obesity messages. Needless to say, I feel ambivalent about such measures as I struggle not to think about foods as "good" or "bad," and to concentrate on quality over quantity. Even as I realize such information will allow many consumers to make "healthier" choices, it feels potentially destructive to the mental -- and potentially physical -- health of those of us who struggle differently with food.

What place, if any, is there for eating disorders in the public health discourse on obesity?

You're welcome. When I had issues around food, there was definitely a control and discipline aspect to it as well. What's turned that around is realizing that if I'm sitting there, trying to go another hour until lunch without fainting, I'm not in control. That unless I become a shut-in, there will be times when my life whether for work or social or family reasons involves eating food other people have prepared. The idea that you can control every single thing that you eat is kind of a myth - the only way to do that is to let food control the rest of your life.

Another myth is that we control our weights. In the long run, we have a lot less control than we think. Yes, you can significantly undereat, trusting only calorie counts and overriding your own body, to stay below a certain limit or overeat regularly and gain some weight, but unless you're already well below your set point, eating a little more, or having olive oil on your salad won't affect your weight. You might be fuller for longer, or your metabolism might run a little faster, but it's not going to make a big difference. We like to think of this stuff is an accounting balance, that what we eat and don't burn sticks to our butts, but it's way way more complicated than that.

I guess the bottom line is that we often have a lot less control than we think and it's better to accept that and change what I can control (like my attitude). Unless you're eating out the the vast majority of the time, it doesn't matter what's on the plate, so why agonize over it?

Also, you mentioned eating when bored. That was something I pretty much stopped doing when I shifted my mindset. The way I think about it now is if I'm hungry, I need the food, and as long as I don't try to count calories or worry about what I "should" eat I will stop when done and it won't really matter what I ate - my body will make its own adjustments, like getting hungry again soon if all I had was salad or staying full for hours after beef curry. Removing the moral issue and all the junk I get from the world around me has pretty much zapped my desire to eat when not hungry, even if I love food.

@gargupie - I'm sorry you're going through this. It's an awful feeling, and took so much pleasure out of my life at the time. To me, the only thing that cured it was to take a drastically different view of health/weight/nutrition/etc. I threw out my scale and decided I just did not believe in calories (after all, the 3500 calories = 1 lb is a ridiculously simplistic assumption that is quite often untrue). Intuitive eating and the idea that we have set point sizes really helps a lot (unless I let food control my life, I actually can't control my weight). I was incredibly nervous at first that I'd gain weight (without the scale, I can't say for sure, but I actually lost about a half size after relaxing my mindset and eating more food) and revert to my old self-hating behavior, but it's worked, even if it means I always look the other way at calorie counts and diet tips and anything that triggers that way of thinking.

Not sure if what works for me would work for you, but I feel terrible that you have to go through the same thing.

I've dealt with ED-NOS since my early twenties. The word that describes it best is "orthorexia" though I'm hesitant to start making up disorders. I'm the sort of person where my body picks its own set point weight and absolutely, positively refuses to budge from it, so when medication made me gain 15 pounds (from a healthy if not super skinny weight to slightly chubby), it messed with me tremendously. I cannot physically go more than a few hours without eating (I end up feeling dizzy, faint and near-violently ill) and my mental health was in a bad enough state that I felt this was a personal failing, not a quirk of my metabolism. I couldn't purge myself either, so I became obsessed with only eating the foods I deemed "acceptable," a list that shrank over time. Every bite of a food that wasn't undressed salad, plain oatmeal, steamed vegetables or baked chicken breast led to days of guilt. I once screamed at my boyfriend for putting more than a paper-towel wipe of oil into the frying pan.

The amount I was eating doesn't actually sound that tiny, but for me it was. I am sure some people could live on a cup of oatmeal, apple, and hard-boiled egg for breakfast and a salad with chicken, veggies, and no dressing for lunch, and be able to accomplish a day's work. I couldn't -- I spent half the day nauseous, dizzy, headachey, and totally unable to concentrate. I'm amazed I didn't get fired. I also ravaged my digestive system with the amount of fiber I was getting, what with banning anything that wasn't half vegetables and whole grain from my diet.

I'm much better now - I'm able to eat a variety of foods and get exercise without being as obsessive about it. I still eat a lot of "healthy" foods because I like them, but am able to relax and have a burger or listen to my body when it is telling me that lettuce will not go down easy. I can eat until I'm satiated and not just until the worst hunger pangs start to subside, and I don't try to stretch the faint hunger feeling out as long as I can tolerate. I can eat food other people have prepared without spending the entire meal trying to figure out how many calories are in it. It took a couple of years, though, and a very good nutritionist who was able to realize what was going on.

BUT I am still fairly easily triggered. I have to NOT know how many calories are in what I'm eating and I have to NOT think about foods as good or bad. I find anti-obesity messages triggering (despite the fact that I am not and probably never really was fat). Portion control messages are the worst, as what leaves me under-nourished, sick with hunger, and obsessed with food is probably about the same amount of food Weight Watchers would tell me to eat, were I trying to lose weight. The messages I was giving myself are the same ones I hear every day, as a good thing. I love my vegetables and I love my exercise, but to me those messages are incredibly destructive.

I battled anorexia throughout my early teens. At my worst, I weighed 70 pounds. I agree that it really is a control issue. When I began to focus on controlling the quality of what I ate rather than the quantity, I started to get better. Getting away from the scrutiny of family and old friends when I moved overseas for college really helped too. Living alone, I dealt with binge eating problems at times but over the last two years my weight and eating habits have stabilized. Thank you so much for starting this thread. I really appreciate being able to learn about other people's experiences.

@sweethunibabi
Who eat's a pound of broccoli for dinner? Me too! Or, like, two pounds of carrots! Haha, well, not anymore, I guess :)

Being a fifteen year-old boy who was naturally losing weight as a result i'd my metabolism and growth, etc., I was not a very likely candidate to have an eating disorder, but it happens easier than you think. I had struggled with weight all my life and I guess I felt like being fat (and people tell me that I wasn't ever that big) had kept me from making friends and having a girlfriend. I followed the motoo "eat when you're hungry, stop when you're satisfied," but when I got back to school, my social situation didn't get any better. I spiraled downward with trying to eat as few calories as possible. I saw a doctor and he said that I should try to get halfbof my food inatke from fruits and vegetables, which I took as eat as little other than fruits and veggies as you can. I continuedbto lose weight, and a lot if people became really concerned about me. The reztriction that i put on myself alomst filled the social void that i felt in myselfI finally realized that I had aneatng disorder and sought hep from both a dietician and my school counselor. Even after I heard that I must eat more protein and fat to survive, it was still extremely tough to allow myself to start eating again. I think it was the information that protein and fats are necessary ( especially for a growing boy like me) and that I really could have harmed myself because of my diet. Now, i've gains 15 of the 60 pounds that I lost back but I feel good about it and think most of it went on as muscle. It was really difficult to start eating again, but once I realize bow much better I feel (both physically and mentally) when I just let myself eat what I want. I still eat pretty healthioy but I have systematically become less and less fretful about every little thing I eat. By no means am I fully recovered, but I feel so much better about myself. The best part is that, out of this, I've developed a love for food and cooking and have gained a lot of good nutritional knowledge along the way. Thanks for reading.

This is a great thread! Thank you to everyone for sharing your stories.
I was diagnosed with anorexia in junior high/high school and had to participate in an outpatient treatment program where people watched me eat all of my meals and I had to have a certain amount of foods everyday. I remember struggling to eat, being afraid of everything, and at meal times, only eating what I considered to be safe foods like raw vegetables, fruit, fat free yogurt, and low fat cereal. If I ate something that was outside my safety zone, I remember having so much anxiety and fear and the only way I felt I could relieve that fear was to run a few miles or do hundreds of jumping jacks. However, 13 years later, thanks to the help of my wonderful parents, as well as the people at the treatment center, I now have fairly normal eating habits, I am at a healthy weight, I exercise and eat regularly, and I love eating out as well as cooking for my friends and family. I am sometimes still so amazed by the way I feel after I eat a great meal - I am happy that I was able to enjoy the food that I ate and I feel at peace. I think my eating disorder, while traumatic, gave me a second chance to re-learn how to enjoy and appreciate good food. Good luck to all of you who are struggling, I feel for you and wish you the best on your journey to recovery and peace.

Ciabatta!

I have sourdough starter that's 5 years old. I love using that because it's supposed to do something for insulin - either make it come or make it go away - whatever it is that is good for diabetics.