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Forgive this long comment! I'm hoping it will be helpful. My daughter and I made three savory pies yesterday (we made beef pies, like a Cornish pasty--finely diced beef, grated potatoes and onions). Both my daughter and I make very good pie crusts--I have 50 years of experience--but we are often frustrated at the inconsistencies and the problem of just the right moisture to flour ratio to have dough that rolls out easily, is thick enough to work with and make nice fluted edges, and is both tender and flaky.

We followed this recipe and were thrilled with the results. Our "test kitchen" experiments in the process might be useful for responding to a couple of the comments here. 1.) Use very cold, unsalted butter as in the recipe. If you use salted butter for a pie crust, plus the recommended salt (or even reduced amounts or no salt) it will be too salty tasting for many people. 2.) We tried the full amount of sugar and also reducing the sugar. Even for a savory pie, we liked the full amount of sugar best. 3.) We used the full amount of water/vodka and also reduced amounts, to experiment. Yes, it looks sticky with the full amount, but remember that some of that moisture will go away in baking (that is the function of the alcohol.), so the extra is needed to have a moist,flaky crust, not a less moist, crumbling one. The extra moisture also allows for the use of extra flour in rolling, which is very handy. 4.) Chill this dough for several hours and work fast with it. The high fat content dough benefits from being very firm when you're starting to work. Otherwise you'll have a very soft dough that rolls out nicely but is difficult to pick up and place on the pie tin. (That is one advantage of a pastry cloth. You can pick the whole thing up and put it in the fridge for a moment to chill and firm, then go back to work on it.) This dough can be re-rolled easily without toughening, but still, work lightly. Use plenty of flour to keep it workable--we found it didn't dry the dough out or toughen it, as can happen with regular crusts. (The alcohol again) 5. This recipe gave us plenty of dough for easy rolling to the right size and with more than enough for a pretty fluted edge--no need for patching and no skimpy edges that need foil protection to keep them from browning too much. We chilled them about an hour before baking so the edges would keep their shape.

Taste test: All the pies were wonderful but the one made exactly according to the recipe--exactly--was voted the best by the taste-testers who didn't know how we had made them. Not much difference in any of them, but still, the exact recipe--full amount of liquid and sugar--was considered the most flaky, tender and flavorful. As a side note: Using a food processor made this very, very easy (We also followed the number of pulses as given in the recipe). But, it can be made without a processor if the same cutting and distributing motion is used to combine flour and fat. Baking at 325 degrees for about 1 1/2 hours cooked the meat and potato filling perfectly and produced a uniformly beautiful, golden brown and delicious tasting crust.

Try this recipe for your next pie and make it exactly according to the recipe, without fear. You can do it differently the next time if you want, but the first time, trust the recipe--developed by people with tremendous knowledge and skill and with a scientific not gimmicky reason for their suggestions--and I think you'll be very happy with the results.

I find the comment about resale value odd. I actually passed on purchasing a home a couple weeks ago in part because it had an electric range. The home is in an area with no natural gas, so I could run a LPG line to it easily enough, but for other, additional reasons, I decided to build instead. I will definitely be having an PG tank and line installed so I can have a gas range - I could never go back to electric. I plan to have a small wall built around it on 2 sides so it won't be visible from the street, and I'll plant flowering shrubs around that.

I don't understand why propane would be considered any riskier than NG. It is a much more stable fuel, and there is a limited amount of it on your property, whereas NG is piped in and once it ignites, there's an almost infinite supply to keep burning.

cjavel, that worked! Baking it per your instructions above resulted in a perfect golden brown crust. Thank you very much!

Is the Pomegranate Glaze really discontinued? My mom tried to buy it in Atlanta but they didn't have it. Can it be found elsewhere???

We know a couple who regularly order pay-per-view events (mixed martial arts primarily) and then invite people over to watch. When you get there, they have a jar out for "donations" toward the refreshments and the cost of the pay-per-view. I find this so tacky, I refuse to go with my boyfriend. I agree with others -- if you can't afford to host a party, make it pot luck, or don't host a party.

Definitely should have been hosted as a potluck and BYOB. This is the second time that I've heard of this happening and both times that I've thought it was tacky.

The principal at my mom's work hosted a retirement party for a co-worker and it was a potluck, BYOB (no alcoholic beverages allowed) & a charge of $10.00 per person. If you did not bring anything it would be a $20.00 per person charge. This woman lives by me and we live in an area where homes start at around a million dollars... PLEASE!!!! How cheap can you be?! And as a side note: No entrance to the home was allowed - porta potties were brought in for the event...

Simply stated - gross - classless. nothing more to be said. surrah

Last year, I threw a huge and quite expensive party for my partner's 60th birthday. About 60 people from in town and out of town came and enjoyed a sit-down soup-to-nuts formal catered dinner under an enormous tent in our garden. I provided full bar service and a trio of musicians to entertain our guests. The invitations specified no gifts, although a few people brought flowers or a bottle of wine. It would never have occurred to me to ask anyone to help pay for the party; it was my gift to my beloved partner. All of our guests had a marvelous time.

Soon thereafter, my partner and I received an invitation to a large (more than 100 guests) out of town birthday party for one of our friends who had attended my partner's party. The situation was the same as the situation the OP posted: pay XX amount per person, contribute to an expensive group gift to the birthday boy, etc.

I was astonished and emailed the person who invited us about our thoughts. The email was gentle and understated, merely asking a question or two about the situation. The party planner was astonished that paying for our friend's party might have been a problem for us: going to the party would have entailed boarding our animals, paying for travel expenses, plus paying the rather hefty 'charges' for actually being at the party. The party was to be a surprise for the birthday boy and, as in the original poster's situation, I believe that he had no idea his 'guests' were required to pay for the privilege of attending.

We elected to miss the event. No matter how much we love our friend (and we do), being asked to pay to attend his birthday party was, as so many posters have said, tacky and in exceptionally bad taste.

@janaatwg you did nothing wrong. Miss Manners says showers are the ONLY party where you are actually expected to bring a gift since the main purpose of the party is to shower the bride or mother to be with gifts.

I do find the pay to come birthday party kind of tacky. What if the birthday person's best friend is out of work and can't afford the $20/person?

I believe that asking people to contribute more than their own bottle of wine is okay if (a) it is not a party specifically hosted by someone for someone or themselves, but rather a surprise or get-together co-planned by a group (b) everyone knows what contribution is accepted BEFORE they're asked to make up their minds about attending. We have, for instance, a private dining club where everyone pays a fixed amount to the host for the evening, and it was made clear to all who joined before they did so that this applied. If a person would like a get-together at, say, a restaurant with friends on her birthday but can't afford to pay for those she invites, I'd suggest she invites them while making clear that everyone pays their own way - but just call it an evening out, rather than a birthday celebration. Attendees should not feel pressured to bring gifts.

Asking guests to pay for their attendance at a party is in very bad taste (unless its a charity/fund raising event, of course!). If guests want to bring a dish, or a bottle of wine, that's great. It should never be expected. When I "invite" people to my home - or anywhere else - its on my bill, not theirs. Never ever. Save your money and buy the inviters a book on manners.

I don't find it unforgivable. You either pay or don't go.
Were you to take the person out yourself (as a couple), 3 people would cost you well over $40 for a nice meal. ($40 for 3 people wouldn't come close to a nice meal here in NYC.)
In this economy I guess I'd rather be asked to share the cost than not have celebrations at all. $20 a head? Is this really what you're complaining about?

That's ghetto. I'm sorry.