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Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
OK, now we can start talking about bagels and H20. There is, or was, nothing like a NY/LI/NJ slice, and as to DC, where I live, the 2 Amys is more reminiscent of New Haven. I agree that the competition in a densely populated area like the Greater metropolitan, makes for better street food like pizza, gyro, and hot dogs.
Who Really Fathered the Everything Bagel?
Warm from the bakery in the Rockaways. Second that thought. Some years ago, I reluctantly added the everything bagel to my list of REAL bagels - plain, onion, poppy, salt, garlic. Cinammon-raisin, cheese? Why not just go to DunkinStarbucksAuBon Pain for a bagel? Now, let's find out who "invented" the black and white bagel. Maybe, it was the poster who worked at Carvel.
Are You a Reverse, Down-Home Food Snob?
Now that you are all SERFCs, let's move on.
Bagels
-can not be sweet
French fries
-are not scooped up in a portion control device and placed on your tray
These are the other argument inducing foods.
Discuss
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Bahn Mi in D.C.
That place, down a few steps, is pretty good, although most people are eating pho there. Everytime I go, they seem a little surprised I'm ordering it, even though the sign outside says Vietnamese sandwich.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
OK, now we can start talking about bagels and H20. There is, or was, nothing like a NY/LI/NJ slice, and as to DC, where I live, the 2 Amys is more reminiscent of New Haven. I agree that the competition in a densely populated area like the Greater metropolitan, makes for better street food like pizza, gyro, and hot dogs.
Who Really Fathered the Everything Bagel?
Warm from the bakery in the Rockaways. Second that thought. Some years ago, I reluctantly added the everything bagel to my list of REAL bagels - plain, onion, poppy, salt, garlic. Cinammon-raisin, cheese? Why not just go to DunkinStarbucksAuBon Pain for a bagel? Now, let's find out who "invented" the black and white bagel. Maybe, it was the poster who worked at Carvel.
Are You a Reverse, Down-Home Food Snob?
Now that you are all SERFCs, let's move on.
Bagels
-can not be sweet
French fries
-are not scooped up in a portion control device and placed on your tray
These are the other argument inducing foods.
Discuss
Bahn Mi in D.C.
@nickdanger this place is in Chinatown in D.C.?
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
I disagree with the water theory. The best pizza I have had outside of NYC was in North Carolina - two brothers who moved down from the bronx to open up a place. It's how you make it as well as the ingredients.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
It may help those engaged in this melee to know that there is no one "NYC" water. Upper Manhattan and the Bronx get it from one source and reservoir system. Manhattan south of 110th St or so (I'm not sure where the boundary line is exactly) get it largely untreated from the Delaware River and southern Catskills through a different reservoir system. Brooklyn and Queens get it from another source, and I don't know where Staten Island gets theirs from. As many have pointed out, you can get good pizza from places other than the lower 2/3 of Manhattan and outside NY City. I'm sure there is water so bad that you can't make good pizza from it, but it's clear that you can do fine with lots of different kinds of water. For what it's worth, Phoenix gets its water from the Colorado River, the source of a lot of Southern California's water. The City of L.A. gets theirs from the Owens Valley, east of the Sierras.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
Slightly OT...but when I was in NYC for my first wedding anniversary 10 years ago, I had a pretzel from a street vendor that I could swear tasted like smog. Not exactly a good thing, not exactly a bad thing...but distinct and unforgettable. So I don't know if you can rule the water thing out...though I agree that bad pizza is probably due more to user error than bad water. =)
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
h2o? maybe-I think it's a northeast us thing: I've traveled all over the US and there's nothing like NY/NJ/PA ( I live in Central PA) pizza. California pizza just doesn't have the sauce flavor or the great foldable crust.
benlee: FYI-San Fran's great sourdough is from a decades-old starter, but there are also specific cultures/spores present in the air out there. They've even been named for the city!
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
i'd say it's the italians.
that and all the tough customers in ny.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
FYI, NYC water now is way different than it was when I was a kid growing up in the Bronx. There's way more chlorine now and it just doesn't taste as good.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
As I've been saying online for 4 years, the water thing is 100% myth. I get emails about this several times a week. According to Maggie Glazer, the myth that baked goods are better in NY because of the water goes all the way back to the 1700's when in the rest of the country people used well water and not municipal tap water. Half the time this wasn't too far from the latrine. In other words the original comparison was comparing NY water, which comes from a pretty good aquifer system upstate, to other systems that would be comparable to what the 3rd world uses today. This rumor says more about how rumors and 'common knowledge' are passed down through the ages than anything about your local water system's shortcomings today. As anyone who's read my recipe (http://slice.seriouseats.com/jvpizza/) or tasted my pizza here in Atlanta knows, it's not the water...
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
My, my...it takes more than H2O to make good pizza. It's takes the embodiment of beliefs and soul to create magic and mozarella. The alchemy of alimentary proportions. IMHO, it boils down to these simple rules - high turnover = more production by the pizza man, seasoned ovens = better flavor and product, and lastly, NYC Dept of Health codes = everyones' on their toes, including Mr. D of Midwood. Guess who's favorite dishes are these inspectors lingering over?
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
OK folks... pizza at DeLorenzo's on Hudson St. in the Chambersburg neighborhood of Trenton, NJ is some of the best I've ever had- rivaling the crisp and delectable pies in Florence and even as good as Lombardis.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
Brooklyn and Manhattan do not share the same water source. Brooklyn water is cloudy, discolored, bitter and metallic
All of NYC, execpt for a small corner of distant Queens, gets its water from the same source.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
1. No one has claimed that the tap water tasting *better* makes the pizza taste better, but just that the unique characteristics of the water may play a part in the consistency and taste of the dough.
2. Brooklyn and Manhattan do not share the same water source. Brooklyn water is cloudy, discolored, bitter and metallic. Yet, Brooklyn pizza is much better than Manhattan pizza.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
sigmund: w00t. I need to drink more water, then, apparently. I'm a nervous wreck half the time.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
taste is a funny thing and not always caused by what we think it should be :
"Sedative traces found in NYC water"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-03-10-nyc--water_N.htm
everyone loves sedatives and a good slice or two does give one a sense of calm & happiness & general well-being so ...
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
how could the chemical composition of the water NOT effect the quality of the pizza. the simpler the dish, the more impact the water will have on it, and pizza dough is flour water salt and yeast. water is a HUGE component.
there are many other issues eg sauce, cheese, oven temp, mixing technique, - and no one is saying that the right water automatically amkes a good pizza - that would be a logical fallacy not being claimed anywhere - ie saying it can't be the water because i've had bad pizza in NYC, makes no sense
and for those posters who said otherwise i have read of several places in cali that do mix their own water/mineral mix to approximate NY water.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
When I lived in Long Beach (LI), the water was so awful that I would bring jugs of Brooklyn water back with me whenever I visited my parents. The pizza, however, was pretty damn good.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
Oh, puh-leeze! Baltimore has some of the best pizza and believe me some of the worst. Any chain pizza place just isn't going to be as good as a mom and pop one. Also I think East vs West plays a large part in it. The sauce is different in California and I couldn't find a decent thin-crust pizza between San Diego and San Francisco. Maybe the water factors in somewhere, I don't know. But for the record the greatest pizza I ever had was in that litlle place across the street from Nathan's in Coney Island.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
All I know is that I moved from a city that had great water to a city where the water is ranked 100th in nation. The weird thing is that my former city had 3x higher bottled water consumption rates per capita than in my current city. It just goes to show that perception shapes reality.
On the topic of pizza, I hate to assume a relationship between good pizza and water quality, but given the sad state of pizza here and the sad state of water quality, I'm thinking I'm in my own little hell.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
It's pretty clear that the premise is wrong. Trenton, New Haven, and Phoenix don't get their water from the Catskills.
Why Can't You Get a Good Slice Outside New York City? 'Wired' Magazine Says It's the Water
Newark NJ has the best water ever. Much better than NYC. I don't notice much of a difference in breads/pizza. The water theory is only partially valid. If you have water that tastes like crap (goto Vegas or Florida and you'll find out what I'm talking about), it makes the dough taste that bad. You have to remove the calcium and chlorine from the water. That's what Chris Bianco does by filtration. Aside from that, the yeast you use is way more important along with the rise time you use. You can make some really bland dough from NYC water and you can make some really tasty dough from any water. California may not have the great water but San Fran. sure has some tasty sourdough bread. That's because they use a good sourdough culture.
Are You a Reverse, Down-Home Food Snob?
Barbecue:
A.) is always a noun
B.) is something you get invited to in a friend's backyard
C.) cannot contain liquid smoke
Ok, so I know it's A.
But,
If someone is nice enough to invite me over to their backyard for food and a good time they can bloody well call it whatever they want with no reprisal from me. Does that make me a reverse reverse snob?
Are You a Reverse, Down-Home Food Snob?
Yes, yes and yes to the opening questions. I think I'm a shoe-in for membership. By the way, I've always wondered . . . what is liquid smoke made of anyway?
Are You a Reverse, Down-Home Food Snob?
Hey, most of the things on that list are exotic foreign foods here. If one ever sees them, it wouldn't pay to get picky. Pizza, on the other hand... well pizza. That's hard to find in proper form anywhere in the US.
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That place, down a few steps, is pretty good, although most people are eating pho there. Everytime I go, they seem a little surprised I'm ordering it, even though the sign outside says Vietnamese sandwich.