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Cocina Savant
http://cocinasavant.blogspot.com/
Weekly pictures, recipes, and thoughts from a husband and wife who love books and cooking for each other.

ChristineB Wrote:

4) You pay for internet at home. Why shouldn't you pay for it at a coffee shop?

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Because I don't pay $5 for a cup of coffee at home... that's why.

@levinedym@Erin Zimmer@sthcb@nut warning.

I could see it if it was men's underwear?

@Erin Zimmer: The heads-up was a good idea. I'd hate to hear of someone getting allergies unintentionally...

On the note of candy underwear... I too have some thoughts that should be kept private. And so they will.

Let me get this straight.

You have to warn people about eating somebody's underwear because it was made in the same factory with nut-containing foods?

How simply 00'ish, or whatever the term is.

My Dad growled at me the first time I told him I wanted to go get a drink at Starbucks. I must sympathize with him that the prices are often unreasonable--especially when you think that so much of the liquid used to make the drinks (other than milk) is WATER!!!! BUT, I still go...probably too much for the budget that I have. That being said though, I do agree with Banannah that it would be better to just support local economy and local coffee shops!!!

I've never tried their breakfast sandwiches, but I have to admit that their pastries do look good (I've never tried one though)...

I think the problem is that Starbucks is so synonymous with coffee these days--people know what the menu is like, can customize their drink, and the location of the restaurant is usually convenient. I think we, as the potential consumers of the product need to recognize what we can or cannot support. If you love Starbucks too much to consider giving it up, then support the chain. If you absolutely despise it then you never have to go. (Rocket science, I know.) Honestly, if enough people care about Starbucks, then all will be well eventually. But if trouble continues, then it seems to be a sign that its presence in society is not needed. Whatever its fate, I am certain it will be the right one. Those opposed to the outcome will find a substitution I'm sure. I know I'm making it sound more simple than it actually is.

(BTW, don't we have more important issues to worry about than the fate of Starbucks? I'm not bashing those who do care one way or the other. But I am not sure that the issue in the grand scheme is the most important thing to worry about...)

I really love the frapps an the holiday latte's are great..

i have never been able to get a soy frappucino from any starbucks. every employee says the same "all we have is a mix." i have, however, been able to get a soy frappe (made with coffee, not fruit) at local coffee shops made from scratch (without the help of a mix). that was my point. no, i do not add sugar to drinks (they're too sweet already). and the point of the thread was simply how to improve the guest satisfaction at starbucks, and free internet is a major incentive for many potential customers to go there.

1)As someone who was a Starbucks barista for a summer, I can assure you that I learned how to do my job damn well
2)Regular old coffee and plain, unsweetened lattes are by far the most popular drinks sold at Starbucks. No one's forcing you to add sugar, its just there is you want it. Also, the different coffees taste vastly different, so if you think the coffee's especially burnt one day, it might just be the sumatra (which I despise). Some of the coffees are quite light.
3)The pastries are local. The morning ones (scones, muffins, etc) are brought in every morning, and the afternoon ones (cookies, cakes, etc) are brought every day as well, but in smaller quantities, and baristas are allowed to sell them for 2-3 days after receiving them. If you care about the gourmet quality of your pastries, you can go to a bakery or a store that specializes in baked goods. Or, if you REALLY care what goes into your muffin (because I've found that a lot of specialty bakeries pastries are just as sweet as Starbucks's) you can always make your own.
4) You pay for internet at home. Why shouldn't you pay for it at a coffee shop?
5) The frappuccinos are made from mixes (made with MILK) so that they make a consistent product. You can ask your barista to make a soy frappucino with soy milk, espresso, and syrup, but just don't expect it to be as good because it's a made up product that you basically create yourself. I did this with great success when I worked there. (Also there are lots of other sweet cold drinks that are more vegan friendly: an iced soy latte with any of the syrups is delicious, and you can specify exactly how much syrup to add so that it is exactly as sweet as you want it.) It's not that baristas don't "know how" to make the drinks without the mix, they just won't guarantee the product will taste good made any other way.The fruit frappuccinos are non-dairy, FYI.
6) Every other coffee shop I have been to, independent or chain, makes their frozen drinks from mixes. Get used to it. If you want a milkshake, go to an ice cream store, and if you want a drink made a certain way, just ask for it. You might be surprised--for better or for worse.
7) Starbucks treats its employees ("partners") incredibly well. The pay is good, it's easy to be promoted quickly, it can be a really fun environment, you can make the customers feel welcome, and the company has great benefits (health insurance, etc).
8) Lattes cost about the same everywhere, whether you're at an independent coffee shop or a huge chain. Coffee varies a little, but not by much. The only way you're paying >$5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks is if you get extra shots AND syrups added.
9) I know a lot of people who love the breakfast sandwiches and the other savory food items. My only complaint about the food would be to add more vegetarian items, since all the salads and most of the sandwiches have meat.

I'm all for supporting local coffee shops! I live across the street from an independent coffee shop, which I go to regularly, and I rarely purchase from Starbucks anymore when I'm at school (in Chicago) because there are so many independent cafes in this city. At home, however, in DC, there are tons of Starbucks and very few independent coffee shops, so I find myself going to Starbucks much more often (plus, I still enjoy the community of the store I used to work in--the first Starbucks on the east coast, store # 375). They provide a convenient meeting place and consistently good coffee (I'm not claiming it's great, but it is adequate for the vast majority of coffee drinkers). If we could replace most of the Starbucks in the world with independent coffee shops, I'd be all for it. I just don't think that's realistic.

OK, how to save Starbucks? As a person who can tell the difference between good coffee and bad coffe, but couldn't even guess between good coffee and great coffee, Starbucks is nothing to me. My right-wing, capitalist, Ayn Rand-ianism says - "Whatever - let it die." That also tells me, "what can they do to save themselves and why not toss in my two cents?" Firstly, the people have spoken - free Wi-Fi. Give these people a place to hang out and write the next Harry Potter. Most people aren't going to use it and those that do, not for too long. The J.K Rowling's who write a book? It's just like the gi-normous people who graze at the buffet - one loss to a hundred's gain. Get over it.

Get smaller. Local is good. Don't over-expand. Train the employees to make a freakin' latte-schmate. Charge a rasonable (read=comparable to local joints) for a plain cup of joe. In can ost more if it's a GOOD cup of joe. If it isn't, don't get all high-and-mighty.

I agree with the aggressive over-expansion. They've gotten away from their original business model. Maybe different from the stores in NYC, here in Texas Starbucks is popping up in every strip mall and on every small town frontage road as a drive through. These stores have absolutely none of the appeal of the ones I used to frequent in my city; they are filled with teenagers, soccer moms and screaming young kids. The employees have a lackadaisical attidude and none of the sense of pride that used to be so evident and infectious.

My suggestion is to shut down these in-and-out locations and only keep the ones in neighborhoods where their original appealing atmosphere can still exist; a place where, if you're a regular, the employees start making your drink when you walk in the door, where you can arrange to meet someone or sit alone and linger over your favorite beverage in relative peace and comfort. Eliminate the food too, except for maybe the pastries. None of it is necessary or memorable. And free Wi-Fi is a must. Otherwise I will continue to seek out the independent shops that offer good coffee, food, service and atmosphere; but unfortunately Starbucks succeeds in shutting most of these down when they can't survive the competition.

It may have been 'one little coffee shop in Seattle' once, but as an argument, that's sort of like saying out that Donald Trump was a cute baby (it's possible...): it's completely irrelevant.

I can't bring myself to weep for Starbucks' possible demise; their aggressive over-expansion, which on a number of occasions seemed focused on shutting down any competition at any cost (consider the number of Starbucks that were, at one point at least, around Cooper Square; yeh, the one in B&N counts too) makes it impossible for me to care if 'Seattle's Best' gets it in the neck.

And although qualitative things are necessarily subjective, I would have to describe Starbucks' coffee as being uniformly unpleasant:
harshly bitter and a bit acrid (growing up in Italy, I've been drinking espresso since I was two, so in my case this is definitely not a question of being unused to stronger coffee).
They seem to have nothing going for them, and their idiotic use of patchy Italian makes me clench my teeth ('venti'? 'latte'? don't get me started...).

Sorry.

I watched Starbucks grow, and many of my favourite coffee shops disappear. This sort of 'progress' may be something one is supposed to accept, but that doesn't mean one has to support it.

Umm. I've gotten Starbucks' coffee exactly 2wice. Once in an airport (in desperate need of caffeine). Neither time did I pay for it (my soul is unsullied). I could care less about its salvation, or extinction. Mostly, I'm just not that interested in chi chi coffee.