Serious Eats - seriouseats.com

The link doesn't work.

it's delicious...i think it was ernie banks that said..."let's eat two!"

Before you jump to conclusions, you must try one! No, it's not a reuben knockoff. It seems to be unique to the Northeast and many delis actually ship them via overnight courier.

The worst part of living in the Midwest is being without my beloved Deli Sloppy Joe!

Cheers...

What two meats do you put on yours, Curz? I would have corned beef and tongue.

Oh. And how does a person manage to eat the thing? :)

I grew up drinking raw milk. My grandpa & uncle were dairy farmers, as was our neighbor. We had a number of sources to get milk dipped directly from the bulk tank so for most of my childhood, we didn't get store bought pasteurized milk.

I also worked on these Dairy farms...from feeding & milking the cows to cleaning the milk room. Milk is graded based on a number of factors...among them the health of the herd, the cleanliness of the barn and the sanitary conditions of the milk room & bulk tank. The higher the grade of milk, the more money you get per pound. It is in every farmers interest to keep things as sanitary as possible.

For this reason, I have no problem consuming raw milk if it comes from a dairy farmer who maintains the highest dairy standards. My uncle is maintains a herd & dairy exactly like this, and he keeps me supplied with fresh, unpasteurized, raw milk which I use for cheesemaking.

However, I also understand the realities of our modern food distribution network. Pasteurizing milk is but one practice that has helped secure a safe food supply in the United States. You need to understand that even small dairies rely upon milk from many farmers, all of whom may not maintain the same degree of cleanliness. Once the milk gets comingled, you cannot be assured that a pathogen isn't present. For mass distribution, pasteurizing the milk makes sense.

I think a compromise is in order. A small local dairy ought to be able to sell raw milk to consumers who prefer it or require it for cheesemaking, churning butter, etc....but they should also have to meet a threshold of standards in terms of cleanliness...as well as some liability should they sell contaminated milk because they didn't maintain sanitary conditions.

For the consumer, like eating undercooked eggs or meat at a restaurant, they would need to implicitly agree that they were taking a risk in consuming the unpasteurized milk. But even there, questions could be raised as to whom is responsible if a parent feeds a child raw milk and they die from e. coli?

It is dishonest to say that raw milk inherently is bad & will spread pathogens...in the same way that it is wrong to say that there are not serious risks & potential consequences for consuming it. Like all perishable food products, there is a balance between preserving the food without destroying the ingredient.

btw: In addition to making cheese, I also use raw milk to make a killer vodka sauce for gnocchi....nothing beats it!

That is truly the most beautiful thing I've seen in a long, long time.

"The Centers for Disease Control...cit[e] evidence that in recent years, children and adults have contracted E. coli and salmonella after drinking raw milk."

Oh, for heaven's sake. They've done the same recently after eating spinach. Are we going to ban spinach?

The American passion for sanitizing everything is just crazy. As libertate notes, people drank raw milk for centuries. There is such a thing as building up antibodies, you know.

In Europe, you can buy dairy products made from unpasteurized milk without any difficulty. I would wager that no more people die from those products than die from any other food-related cause.

I've drunk milk fresh from the goat and fresh from the cow, when as a girl I visited my brother who was working at a school on a farm. I've never tasted anything like it since. It would be nice to have the option.

I live in CA, and it's wonderful to live in one of few states that allows unpasteurized milk to not be treated like heroin. The reason most milk has to be pasteurized today is the treatment of our poor cows in this country. They eat food they are not meant to eat and take hormones they are not meant to take, and therefore a constantly sick and pumped full of antibiotics, which as we all know, kill the good bacteria and leave more room for the bad to grow. Raw milk in CA does not come from cows who are pumped full of antibiotics, regardless of what Liberate says. They come from cows who eat grass and hay (not corn and soy), who are able to roam freely, and who naturally produce a substance called milk that is tested batch by batch for human pathogens.

Because it is legal, the two companies that produce Raw milk have had no reported illnesses in all of their years of production. I would much rather drink raw milk, which most likely never had any bad bacteria in it, as opposed to cooked milk, which has been ultra pasteurized to the point where all of the horrible bacteria that was rampant in the poor cows lives had to be killed.

However, I would not participate in crazy illegal bars - we all know how making a substance illegal greatly increases it's dangers. Shame on the US government for making natural milk something that has to be traded on the black market. But, regardless of whose fault it is, I am not planning on drinking anything that comes off the black market.

I just started reading about the history of milk in this country (all milk was unpasteurized until the 1920s, when cows who were fed brewers waste began producing unfit but cheap milk that was given to the poor). If you think that suddenly, in the 1920s milk became a problem, but for the past 10,000 years of milk consumption it was not a problem, well, maybe this had something to do with the industrial revolution. Just maybe.

I bought my first raw milk just the other week after speaking to a nutritionist to make sure I hadn't just jumped on a band wagon - I have now tried both brands that are legal in CA. Both are delicious, and I haven't had so much as a cough. I do have a chronic disease - IBD. I am not saying that raw milk will cure me, but I do know that i react much better to it than I do to cooked milk, to which I am intolerant. I love the taste, and I think the good bacteria it contains is very beneficial for my digestive tract, which needs all the help it can get. I also love knowing that the cows who gave me this milk were raised on a small family farm with workers who care about their well being. I try to have respect for the animals that give me food - whether through slaughter or not. I prefer they live happy, healthy lives. If they are unhealthy, living in miserable conditions (the way the majority of our cattle live), I find it hard to believe they can give any milk that doesn't need to be heat treated before I can drink it.

I think the answer is, make sure you know where your raw milk is coming from. And, if all cows were treated properly, milk wouldn't need to be pasteurized.

even though i just finished lunch i want one of those!!!