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Storing the wine in a cellar, having the right temp, etc... is all part of the markup on the actual wine. This has nothing to do with tipping on the wine.

And with any service industry, you have to deal with people that are retarded and rude. That's just a part of the industry. The guy at Best Buy that gets no tip still deals with insanely rude people. That should not factor into the tip at all.

I generally tip on the total bill. 18% as a standard. 15% if I was a little unsatisfied and 20% if the service was good. I tip on the total bill (post tax which is kind of retarded) but if the service was horrible, I will definitely leave a tip less than 15% (more along 10%).

My point I think is that if I were to ever order $1,000 (or more) bottle of wine, I don't think any argument can convince me that the server bringing me the bottle and opening it could justify a $200 tip. I might be forced to at restaurants like Per Se, but I still wont think it's deserved.

There are so many issues floating around on this discussion. The original question was how much to tip when alcohol is involved. The restaurant (including managers and owners--not just the wait staff) assumes that, at a minimum, 15-20% of the total bill will be left as tip. For example, let's say you book a party for 30 people, you pick a menu, you pick your wine (whether it's a $50 or $1000--it has been marked up anywhere from 250% to 1000%, give or take, depending on the cost at which that particular wine was purchased, how rare/desirable/allocated, or what is motivating the sommelier, e.g. protecting the vertical or holding it to allow for further maturation, trying to move it, etc. More on factors affecting restaurant wine prices later on or on another thread if need be), you and guests eat and drink, at the end of the night, the bill will reflect the total plus gratuity on the ENTIRE bill, not just for food. They do not assign one rate of gratuity to food and another rate to beverages.

on a long road trip, im looking for salt &vinegar chips or cheese popcorn and some high caffeine drink.

I really enjoyed reading this thread, especially after getting back from a night waiting tables at one of the South San Francisco Bay Area's busiest restaurants. I've bartended and waited tables for years, but I'm a cash-strapped grad student, so I can see both sides (although I would never hassle someone about a poor tip, much less follow a person out to their car).

Despite the fact that I work at a highly popular casual dining restaurant, and I actually give the sort of service that I would want, it's difficult for me to bring home more than 10% of my sales. 2% go to the expo, bartender, and busboys each, and here in the South Bay you get a lot of immigrants who don't know how (or care to) tip. I've worked in other cities and been frustrated at getting less than 20% for what I knew was a stellar job, but I've learned here that a few tables a night will leave me less than 10%--meaning I'm lucky to make any money on them, after tipout.

We don't sell any expensive wines, but I hate the whole premise of "rules" behind tipping. These rules are to prevent the rude guests and the ignorant from jacking us servers over, but the rude people and the ignorant will do that anyway. When I go out to eat or drink, the only rule I have is that the server/bartender gets a minimum of 20% if they were competent--that's 20% of the GROSS, folks. If I sit at the bar for a few hours, I'll probably leave a $10, even if I've only had a beer or two. How many other guests could have been served in your seat while you pay $2 for 'just pouring two beers?' If my server hooked me up with freebies, or went out of his way, I'll usually just round everything up to a nice, even number that will put a smile on the server's face and, often, a free drink or dessert, depending on the location and time of day. My mother once scolded me for this, but I explained to her that, aside from the fact that I would want a tip like that, and I like to give that for good service, establishments remember me, and guess who gets free drinks, good seating, priority service?

I'm not suggesting that everyone do as I do, but I will say what I say nearly every night: if you can't afford to leave the acceptable tip, or if you're too ignorant to have any clue what said tip should be, there's a Taco Bell across the street that would love your patronage a lot more than I would.

@lilpkstar - As you said, sales tax is a LAW. Tipping is (usually) voluntary. Also, dolts and idiots couldn't care less about a servers tax problems. If the government assumes you average 10%, perhaps that is the amount of tip that should be automatically added to the bill and we could all just forget about tipping any higher.

Wow.. not to ruin the mystique a little, but a $50 bottle of wine and a $1000 bottle of wine are VERY different.

For one, the wine director of a restaurant that would sell bottles that expensive has to do the research to even have such a selection. They have to secure a good distributer to purchase bottles from, and trust that each bottle is up to quality. Even the chef can taste the caviar before plopping it onto your plate, but a bottle of wine is sealed.

Then there's the matter of storage, which would involve proper light and temperature control, (costing the restaurant money in electricty and knowledgeable designers). Accessability for the wait-staff.. a $50 bottle might be easy to grab behind the bar, but a $1000 bottle is under lock and key.. the waiter has to search out the manager to retrieve the key. Also, rarely does someone order that bottle without at least some description from the waitstaff or sommelier, who are trained to know the details and what it would taste great with.

I'm not saying the waiter in the original post didnt do his job by coming back to pour and keep the ice cold, but it's all bottles are NOT the same.

Actually, according to the U.S. Department of Labor the following is the case:

"An employer may pay a tipped employee not less than $2.13 an hour in direct wages if that amount plus the tips received equal at least the federal minimum wage, the employee retains all tips and the employee customarily and regularly receives more than $30 a month in tips. If an employee's tips combined with the employer's direct wages of at least $2.13 an hour do not equal the federal minimum hourly wage, the employer must make up the difference."

For New York City (where I live), the minimum they must meet is $7.25 an hour. That means that even if the server does a horrible job and receives no tips, the restaurant must make up the difference so he/she will be entitled to a federal minimum wage no matter what. That means that the tip you give will contribute to that, but also increase his wage. Why would I want to increase a person's wage that does a horrible job? If the person is putting forth minimum wage type of work, that is what he/she deserves (not an extra pat on the back).

So while you may be right in that the tip is part of their pay, they will receive the minimum wage no matter what. If they want to make anything above that, they should obviously be good at what they do.

" Is it a little ridiculous to get paid $200 for opening a bottle of wine? Of course! But if the customer doesn't want to pay gratuity, they shouldn't have ordered the wine."

bullshit!

In the restaurant industry, the cost of the service is not "baked into the price of the product" as it is in other industries. The restaurant is only paying the server half of minimum wage because gratuity is considered a part of that server's pay. Like I said, it's not a gift. It's their pay. That's why I said it's a problem with the industry. To not live a tip would be like expecting to pay half for a DVD - to use your example.

@sushiburger - True, one does not tip waitstaff to enhance the life of their server. It's not a gift. Gratuity is payment for the full service, which is determined by a percentage of the full bill not just whatever part of the bill the customer decides they want to pay. Is it a little ridiculous to get paid $200 for opening a bottle of wine? Of course! But if the customer doesn't want to pay gratuity, they shouldn't have ordered the wine.

nachos. with the gooey cheese and jalapenos.
I could go for some right now- must be lunch time soon!

THis is so very interesting to read!!!
@ yayfood: as a student of business in Hospitality Mangement, i agree with your contentions entirely! BUT, if I were ever chased and it was implied that ,'hey, lady...you need to fork over a hell of a lot more'..that would just be so very unprofessional and repellent.