joejoe’s Profile
Recent Comments
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
first to say this no one who is irrelevant could cause this much of a stir
i know not much about her but her food is wonderful
she is charged as a radical and a utopian even if true
the world needs conservatives,revolutionaries,radicals and utoponists
even if you/we don't agree because we are one of the above types we feed each others minds (food for thought ) most good things in the world have come from cross actions from the above groups but ALL bad thinks have come from just listen to one group
Help me remember this breakfast cereal
to bad we wern't talkin flakes
i miss my post fortified oak flakes
Question of the Day: Any vegetarians out there? Why'd you go meatless?
my question is based on logic not the vegan carniviore thing.....
here goes
if an acre of land produces x amount of corn
how many humans will it feed vs. how much a cow eats of it and how many people will the cow feed
See more comments by joejoe ยป
Recent Posts
joejoe hasn't written a post yet.
Recent Favorites
joejoe hasn't favorited a post yet.
Recent Polls
joejoe hasn't answered any polls yet.
Recent Quizzes
joejoe hasn't taken any quizzes yet.
Recent Comments | Response to Comments
DIY Espresso
the only thig is the smell i think a lot of people think it is going to smell of fresh ground coffe but no....
i lived a few blocks from a major coffee co. and the whole area for blocks stunk like burnt toast
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
first to say this no one who is irrelevant could cause this much of a stir
i know not much about her but her food is wonderful
she is charged as a radical and a utopian even if true
the world needs conservatives,revolutionaries,radicals and utoponists
even if you/we don't agree because we are one of the above types we feed each others minds (food for thought ) most good things in the world have come from cross actions from the above groups but ALL bad thinks have come from just listen to one group
Help me remember this breakfast cereal
to bad we wern't talkin flakes
i miss my post fortified oak flakes
Question of the Day: Any vegetarians out there? Why'd you go meatless?
my question is based on logic not the vegan carniviore thing.....
here goes
if an acre of land produces x amount of corn
how many humans will it feed vs. how much a cow eats of it and how many people will the cow feed
Southern Foodways: Hog-Butchering Time
The only think that is crazy is turning it into a party
this (not the slaughtering part) is the sign of a not too bright group
Do you enjoy eating game?
huneybumper you statement of the die more humanely is NOT ALWAYS TRUE
especially when the hunter uses 4-5 shots and just wounds the animal and has to chase it for an hour as it suffers
i have heard stories from hunters and the worst part is some of them get their rocks off when this happens
I ate a dog.
i know the american slaughter houses have their problems ie: some animals that make it through still alive to the skinning process or what. for the most part it is not done on purpose , but the asian way korean/chinese they do this intentionaly, face it they are barbaric uncivilized animals
Should meat eaters kill what they eat?
what annoys me are the hunters , they take pictures and make trophies, and i see them with family and friends holding the carcass up
you can see they really get off on it (the pictures prove it) yet they deny it
you can see it in their faces its sex for them
and the ritual thing rituals are for uncivilized jungle types
Do you enjoy eating game?
@wellred: that's not hypocritical at all! More people should be willing to try new things, like different types of game! Check out my recipes if you're looking for something new!
Do you enjoy eating game?
Have tried venison, wild boar, goat (not game, but less commonly eaten meat in North America), buffalo, quail, ostrich...can't think of what else. Liked them all. I would try almost any animal as long as it was either raised for meat or properly hunted...but I do have a double standard for dogs, having grown up living with one. I know it is hypocritical; I'm OK with that.
Do you enjoy eating game?
I've eaten venison for most of my life, but I wanted to try some new things so I tried out this recipe for grilled dove kabobs that I found on AmericanHunter.org the other day and it was a huge hit at my cookout! Check it out: http://americanhunter.org/ArticlePage.aspx?cid=40&id=1699
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
"But, at some point, there has to be movement beyond the prototype stage, into the real world of practical workability."
Agreed.
Baby steps, baby. Baby steps.... And they must be making an impact because- heck- we're talking about it, starting to make choices, organics are becomig more available, even in regular grocery stores, not just health food stores.
I'm sure that she tackles the real cost issues in her restaurant every day. Just read recently about a couple of chefs who've followed her lead and taken steps to grow kitchen gardens which provide fresher foods and defray operating costs.
Making it work in the real world takes more than one person.
BTW, I wear glasses too. No, not the rosy kind.... ;o) *L*
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
@grumpyglutton - I completely understand. To sell out your own cause for some ahem... subsidized dollars is unfortunate but not shocking. Such is the history of mankind I'm afraid.
@Mhila - I totally understand that too - there are NONE, not ONE CSA in this area. Even if you wanted to join - tough. There is an organic delivery service though, which is a step in the right direction.
@CJ McD - fight the good fight! To shoot the messenger for the message is to be willfully ignorant.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
Well, I do wear glasses, so the myopic remark is pretty on-target.
If you consider her restaurant as a prototype expression of her ideas, then I suppose it's fine.
But, at some point, there has to be movement beyond the prototype stage, into the real world of practical workability. I just wonder whether she's ever tackled the issue of cost with her restaurant. If she's never seriously considered it -- of if it never even occurred to her -- then (gasp!) the elitist word might be appropriate.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
" I'm referring to people who make less than $1.25/day. At least one in six people in the world fit that criteria. Of those people, the overwhelming majority are severely undernourished. Millions of children starve to death every year. Do you seriously believe that they can afford to spend more money on food? What's your solution for parts of the world with large populations and very little arable land? We're all aware that this isn't an all-or-nothing philosophy; growing vegetables at home is a good thing if you can do it, and buying foodstuffs (notably fruits and certain vegetables) from local farms at the peak of freshness is an enjoyable luxury, but the ideas you espouse as "world-saving" can't really be applied to most of the planet we live on."
You're reading more into my comments than what was written and are twisting my words. I haven't commented on world-saving nor the politics and government policies of world food sources. That's off topic but it merits discussion in another thread. (Let's keep that in mind. It's a great topic.)
All I have done is defended her efforts against critics.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
"Cost is a real issue for most people. It really should be taken seriously. If not, then the effort -- whether in respect to food or homes -- is going to be a boutique industry, irrelevant to most people for the simple reason that they can't afford it."
Yes. Cost is a real issue.
And as with any new process/product/movement, at the "beginning" of it (where we are now even though she's been promoting it for over 25 years and it until recently, has not been embraced and still meets with resistance) there are always and only a select few who can afford it; be it indoor plumbing, televisions or organic, fresh food.
But to label HER elitist because we are at the beginnings of a movement that CURRENTLY everyone cannot afford it sligtly myopic at best.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
It's great that she's started a foundation, authored books, etc. Those efforts seem more likely to convey her message than the restaurant, it seems to me.
Her restaurant reminds me of an eco-friendly, green home that sells for $2 million. It's great that the design accomplishes what it does...but how many people can afford to purchase a $2 million home?
Cost is a real issue for most people. It really should be taken seriously. If not, then the effort -- whether in respect to food or homes -- is going to be a boutique industry, irrelevant to most people for the simple reason that they can't afford it.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
I had the pleasure of being introduced to Alice Waters when she ate in the restaurant I was working. She was very warm and appreciative of the food and menu. I enjoyed her biography and feel the need to point out that Chez Pannisse is not a corporation focused on the bottom line and making profits. As it was represented in the book, the larger focus of the restaurant is to provide good jobs, insurance for employees, and funding to programs the shareholders believe in. This is Utopian, but that is a good thing.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
CJ McD,
Do you realize how many people live in poverty? I'm not talking about the US, that's a very small part of the picture - I'm referring to people who make less than $1.25/day. At least one in six people in the world fit that criteria. Of those people, the overwhelming majority are severely undernourished. Millions of children starve to death every year. Do you seriously believe that they can afford to spend more money on food? What's your solution for parts of the world with large populations and very little arable land? We're all aware that this isn't an all-or-nothing philosophy; growing vegetables at home is a good thing if you can do it, and buying foodstuffs (notably fruits and certain vegetables) from local farms at the peak of freshness is an enjoyable luxury, but the ideas you espouse as "world-saving" can't really be applied to most of the planet we live on.
Why The Hate For Alice Waters?
"If her restaurant is an expression of her ideals, then those ideals... will be seen by few people, for the simple fact that few people can afford to eat there.
To me that seems odd (but maybe that's just me)...
I mean, there are many restaurants that charge more than the majority of people can afford to pay for a meal ... you might think it would be different for a restaurant espousing her ideals, but clearly it's not.
I don't know if anyone else finds that to be surprising, but I do."
-----
I would find it suprising too, if it were all she does. But it's not.
From the ChezPanisse website:
"...she created the Chez Panisse Foundation to help underwrite cultural and educational programs such as the one at the Edible Schoolyard that demonstrate the transformative power of growing, cooking, and sharing food.
Among Alice's many board affiliations, she is the Founder and Director of the Chez Panisse Foundation, an International Governor of Slow Food, a Visiting Dean at the French Culinary Institute, an Honorary Trustee of the American Center for Food, Wine and the Arts in Napa, and Board Member of the San Francisco Ferry Plaza Farmers Market.
Alice is author and co-author of eight books, including Chez Panisse Vegetables, Chez Panisse Cafe Cookbook, Fanny at Chez Panisse, a storybook and cookbook for children, and most recently, the encyclopedic Chez Panisse Fruit. Chez Panisse restaurant was named Best Restaurant in America by Gourmet magazine in 2001. Alice has received numerous awards, including the Bon Appetit magazine's Lifetime Achievement Award in 2000 and the James Beard Humanitarian Award in 1997...."
As with any movement, you don't just talk about it, magically wave a wand and *poof*, it's done. I think you are either missing the message or think she has hurculean abilities.
She is a voice, a leader of a movement. It's up to the rest of "us", the people, the buyer's market to make it happen by our choices, actions and purchases.
Help me remember this breakfast cereal
I loved Kix until they changed the formula. They are airier now and don't have nearly the taste of the old ones.
Southern Foodways: Hog-Butchering Time
I can't begin to convey the ammount of offense that I take to the cpmment that this is a sign of a not too bright group. My family and I used to have hog slaughters at my grandfathers farm in Alabama. My grandfather worked for NASA at Redstone Arsenal in Huntsville, my father has a PHD from Vanderbilt, and I have 2 degrees one from UT and one from Johnson and Wales. We always had a party to celebrate the slaughter and add a huge ammount of people to help us with the slaughtering. It is a party because we are a rural group by tradition and by gathering the strength of the community around us we could acheive a greater ammount of work with much less effort. Pooling our resources to ease the labor and draw the community together seems very smart to me, but I wouldn't expect someone with such a narrow view as the previous comment to understand that. We in the south are a community that take care of each other and much of our social interaction revolves around food and the preparation of big meals. Learn about the people that you are smearing before you generalize so ignorantly joejoe
Do you enjoy eating game?
Don't know if its considered 'game' but enjoyed some Wild Boar last night at a local favorite Italian eatery called Fratelli's in New Rochelle, N.Y. The rib and steak from the boar were loaded with flavor...also had a variation of this dish at Peter Kelly's X20 in Yonkers...
Do you enjoy eating game?
@WhatsCookin~AMEN!
I'm from Texas. K?
Question of the Day: Any vegetarians out there? Why'd you go meatless?
i read way too much about the meat industry, was the first thing. if you start to think about what it is you're eating, and how it was raised, and how it got to your plate... yuck. i love reading the pioneer woman's blog, but i can't think too much about how her family earns their living.
then i decided that if i couldn't kill it myself i shouldn't eat it either. it just started to feel wrong. and why should i share my home with an animal, encourage it to sleep in my bed with me, and yet perpetrate such harm and suffering on its brethren by buying commercially raised meat and dairy?
even the politically correct meat sellers at the greenmarket who give their livestock better lives than that in the end have to kill their animals.
and the kosher meat industry! don't get me started. such hypocrisy! they don't treat their animals well, which is one of the whole points of being kosher, and they treat their workers worse.
don't get me wrong, i LOVE meat. i can eat a whole ribeye steak in one sitting and lay waste to a sandwich at carnegie deli all by myself, no problem. it's sad for me to think about everything i'm turning my back on... brisket, chicken matzo ball soup, chopped liver, hangar steak, banh mi, pastrami on rye, boeuf bourgignon, duck gizzards... but i'll survive.
geez, i think i gave the term "serious eater" a whole new twist today!
Question of the Day: Any vegetarians out there? Why'd you go meatless?
@joejoe, in the US, very little of the corn grown is fed to humans directly, since that's usually not sweet corn. Much of it goes for non-food items like biofuel, and a lot goes for HCFS.
And yes, a portion goes for animal feed. But, in a best-case scenario, the cow wouldn't be eating corn, it would be grazing on grass, which is what it evolved to eat. Eating corn is pretty unnatural for a cow.
Cattle can graze where farming is difficult, so it's not an either/or thing. And in fact, at the beginning of their lives, those corn-fed cows are grazing on grass. They're sent to feedlots later.
So if the cow isn't fed any corn, that acre of land could grow crops that humans could eat while the cow grazed elsewhere, and you could have your steak and your potato without any conflict.
Should meat eaters kill what they eat?
@Jerzee~OMG I'm STILL laughing!
I grew up in a hunting family. I can field-dress a deer and I've helped pluck a turkey for Thanksgiving. I've made venison sausage and cooked little lamb chops from the sheep my dad raised (that one did make me feel a little weird). I truly do believe there is a circle of life and a natural order to the food chain. Of course, when I complained bitterly that my brother always got to go hunting and I didn't, my dad took me hunting. I had to promise to be quiet and not complain about the cold or getting up at the crack of still dark. I was soo good! My dad tapped me on the shoulder and pointed out a huge, exquisite buck. He then raised his rifle; and I, perfect little hunter, screamed RUUUNNNNN at the top of my lungs. We never spoke of it and I was never invited again.
I still respect the hunter though. And the right or privilege to eat meat. Or not. I also enjoy a tasty eggplant lasagna. Vegetables are goood.
@Cassaendra~That's bizarre. I've never heard of that. One more story. When my son was in 3rd grade we went on a school field trip to the St Louis Zoo. While standing at the lion's habitat, he came tearing out of the bushes and caught a low-flying pigeon, then trotted proudly back with his kill. It was such a thrilling experience! The teacher didn't think so, it made her a little ill. I still think it was a really good lesson for the kids.
I'm done now. =)
Recent Posts
joejoe hasn't written a post yet.
Recent Favorites
joejoe hasn't favorited a post yet.
Polls
joejoe hasn't answered any polls yet.
Quizzes
joejoe hasn't taken any quizzes yet.

the only thig is the smell i think a lot of people think it is going to smell of fresh ground coffe but no....
i lived a few blocks from a major coffee co. and the whole area for blocks stunk like burnt toast