How can I guy who came up with such a great concept come up with such a loser??? I don't think that the burger dems equals those who look at the military as a positive........
How could ANY authentic italian food item NOT be good on pizza??
Anyone have a recipe for curing your wn anchovies? They do it a lot in westerly ri.....meaty, not to salty.....better than any store bought that i ever had.......
You want PRETENTIOUS?? SNOBBERY?? Nauseating?? Just watch "unique eats"....it almost seems as the producers purposely choose these hosts for their ability to annoy.......just check it out ne time....from the hipster twin weirdos to over fed fake blond " underground "chef".......just too much.......IT REPRESENTS EVERYTHING THAT IS WRONG WITH THE FOOD SCENE TODAY...
Do you think the dough is MB's doing?? I kinda think his name is there for commercial reasons....but you may have a point
People would be surprised on how different PIZZARIAS in NAPLES differ from each other in terms of work flow.......they may TOUT VPN standards.....but, according to relatives who work in the industry there, fermentation time, intrediant weights,and even recipes changes from one place to another. Personally I think VPN takes there rules from a specific small group of pizzerias.
Every time a "discussion" of what is AUTHENTIC AND WHAT ISN'T, I keep in mind a statement made in the BEST book about Italian cooking EVER written, "the foods of italy" by Wavery Root. He correctly stated that, in Italy, recipes differ from TOWN TO NEIGHBORING TOWN, unlike FRANCE. What passes for Chicken Cacciatore in Mintorno DIFFERS in neighboring Scauri.
Every single time I read people arguing about the AUTHENTIC recipe when discussing an ITALIAN recipe, it makes me shake my head.
In Italy, a recipe is simply a GENERAL guideline.....nothing more. I wish people in the USA would understand that.
Yes, you're right...it IS a communal food in the USA.....not so in Italy...and THIS is one of the main hurdles FC pizza AND NEAPOLITAN pizza will have to overcome if the want to become a trend and NOT a fad.
The ONLY difference between a fast casual pizza place and a traditional pizza place is that you POINT to your toppings, instead of speaking your toppings. The only difference between a F.C. Pizza place and a traditional pizza place is a wall.. A traditional pizza place setup is basically the same.....you simply can see it in a F.C. Place.
Really, its not a bog deal........what I see here is a hipster dislike for a restaurant opening that has PROFIT number one and center
11:39AM ON 06/04/13
As long as it tastes good - it's all good; minimum wage, minimum skilled or not.
Yep...u r rite....BUT
the post was WHY would this be called Tuscan....NOT the taste.....and the reason this is called Tuscan is EXACTLY why I posted. Again, u r rite...good taste is good taste, but in the restaurant biz, seeming to be knowledgable is a big thing ( to foodies) and to patrons that know their food, it seems ridiculous.......the manger of the place should have caught the mistake and corrected it,,
Chicken, bacon and ranch is a great combo, as far a taste is concerned.
Calling it Tuscan means a minimum wage, minimum skilled employee came up with the name because they have to come up with specialty pies every day.
4 minutes at 570??? Either the time is wrong or the temp is wrong....imo.
That color and bottom in 4 minutes at that low of a temp??
CRISPY rabe?? Really?? Rabe, like most veggies in italian cooking, is cooked far more than what is considered "in". Italians aren't concerned with retaining the color at expense of flavor. Check out their veggies.....not brightly colored, but cooked well done, because most veggies have MORE flavor when cooked well. In Sicily, rabe is cooked slow and low, u til it is almost a purée....a bit much for me, but you get to understand Italians stance on veggie cooking
where did this "italians don't put sugar in tomato sauce" thing start from?? If you ask most first generation italian americans if their moms and nonnas used sugar, I am SURE, the answer would be, by far, yes. MOST of the time for certain pasta sauces and ALL of the time for pizza sauce. Some started the practice when they discovered a difference in American tomato flavor, and others had already started it in the old country.
This "rolling over in their grave" stuff is nonsense.
I've never gone to one of these...BUT for all those saying they won't be going based on the setup........put a wall up in front of the sevice line.....and the process is 99% the same as your favorite pizza place. Instead of telling the server what you want on your pie, you tell a line guy........it's really not that big of a deal
I really wish MB would concentrate his immense talents on coming up with a REAL pizza place. By that I mean one BAKED in an oven. I imagine he would be capable of producing incredible pies. This "pizza" just doesn't cut it for me. Maybe my expectations are too high, given my admiration for the BEST chef the food channel EVER had. His show was incredible and he is an unbelievable talent.
As usual a fantastic article, Kenji.....a few thoughts
First...I have NEVER worked in a pizza place that uses a different dough in making "sicilian" pizza than they do in making their "NY" style thin crust pizza....I not saying some places don't, but I can't see a busy popular place doing two different doughs. The sicilain, at least in what I have experienced, is simply their NY dough panned and allowed to rise slowly at room temp, usually topped with a bit of sauce. I have read your article on experimenting with the sicilian and I DO see the difference and even agree with your results, its just that I don't think its practical for a commercial establishment to do this because I just don't see 99% of the customers noticing a difference......again, agreeing with you that a wetter dough has a lighter structure.
Also, MOST places I've experienced have used shortening at the bottom of the sicilian pan. This allows the dough to be brought out to the edges without springing back (something that is difficult to do, even with a thoroughly relaxed dough) Now, the top of the dough does get a nice healthy pour of EVOO......
As far as a NY style being baked for 12-15 minutes, I agree with you that some places do indeed do that. But, that would mean the oven temps would be around 450-500 tops. One of the best pizzas in Connecticut, Zuppardis does just that. And the pizza was absolutely phenomenal. But, I beleive the majority of "NY-NH" are fired up at around 550 which will consistantly give you an 8-9 minute baking time. However, I do know that the real NY freaks like a 4 minute bake, which says to me that the ovens have to be at around 650-700.....a temp MOST deck ovens find hard to reach, let alone maintain.....that is why a coal oven can do a 4 minute bake and is usually considered superior. I had the pleasure of eating a pizza from Pizzatown in NJ, and while they use deck ovens, they are fired high enough to produce a 4 or 5 minute pizza whose crust is EXACTLY as you describe in your article. The longer baked pie at Zuppardis had a much crispier, crunchier texture, which I prefer and think most of the general public does, but one that I think most NY "nerds" (with respect)would find inferior. I really can't see how a 12-15 minute bake could leave you with a non crispy, crunchy pie UNLESS its got a real generous dose of oil in its recipe.
I do have one question, I hope you or anyone else could answer. It concerns Siciian pizza. When places DOUBLE BAKE their pies, is it because it makes for a quicker bake when actually ordered or is the pie superior "twice baked", like fries.......I have tried both, and I prefer a pie baked just once....but I could be simply doing it wrong. In places where I've worked, it is parbaked simply because its quicker to produce during service.
Any thoughts?? Thanks again for a great article.
I gotta +1 on this....fried dough topped with tomato sauce and grated cheese has been common place in connecticut...restaurants, fairs, italian festivals....this seems to be a variation of fried dough, baked in the oven after frying.......
Someone above mentions their slice being covered with just a dusting of "parm"....just curious....do many people use the term "parm" meaning simply grated cheese or is it ACTUALLY reggiano parmigiano or a domenstic type or parm?
I ask because in every single pizza place I have ever worked Reggiano or any kind of parm was NEVER used (except for sprecialy pies that utilized cream or a cream sauce).....it was ALWAYS fresh greated Pecorino Romano. I used to think this was becasue PR is about half the price, but NOW I realize that, with a few exceptions, Romano with its saltier more aggressive taste does a much better job of bringing out the flavors of the other ingredients (kinda like salt itself).
I bring this up because I read "parm" almost all the time to describe pizzas and hardly EVER the term Romano. Anyone?? Thanks.
Here we go again.....RECIPES are NOT personal property...God....someone "stole" L and B's sauce recipe??? And IF the square gets famous, someone who worked for them will "steal" their recipe......
It takes WAY MORE than the recipe to duplicate a restaurants success.
Time to grow up.
ANd I find it hard to believe that a pie would take 10 minutes in a 600 degree oven. New haven deck ovens 8 minute at 550.....almost all.
I don't think time in the oven dictates whether or not the pizza is good or bad. Zuppardi's does a pie in WELL over 10 minutes.....I might be off, but it was close to 12...so the oven has GOT to be below 500 and it was UNQUESTIONBLY the best pie I ever, ever eat....that big puffy corn is something very new in America
Best fast food burger?? Fast food meaning SPEED OF SERVICE or quality. Cause speed of service isn't that fast and quality wise...its far behind Shake shack or five guys (though neither of these are fast either).
This, I don't get. After hearing about IAO for years, I had a few. McDonalds with fresh abundunt lettuce, tomato and onion. Thats it. That burger is marginally better than Micky D's. What makes it is that the toppings are put on fresh and generously, otherwise same old dry burger. Not that I hate MCD or IAO, but I just don't get the bliss i guess...
"Let's just try not to look down on others for their food choices"
I think thats something that has been blowing up faster than autolysed, crescito fed, 00 imported flour based, diving arms mixed, room temperature bulk fermented, riposo slapped, stretch and folded dough ball in a hot kitchen in summer! Can't even be saved by a low domed mystery made imported Neapolitan oven!!!
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