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In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
That hydroponic basil is good shit.
--FP
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
FWIW If I had to choose between a bog-standard, half-arsed margherita and a fresh caprese salad with decent bread on the side - or maybe some bruschetta - I'd go for the caprese salad every time.
FP
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
oh for a comment editor! In the second paragraph: First i used bread twice in the same damn sentence (lazy!) and also,
"outside these spoken" should read "outside these unspoken".
--FP
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Recent Comments | Response to Comments
Seattle: Via Tribunali, Neapolitan-Style Pizza
@seriouspizza Are you David at pizzamaking.com by any chance? (apologies if you're not).
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
That hydroponic basil is good shit.
--FP
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
FWIW If I had to choose between a bog-standard, half-arsed margherita and a fresh caprese salad with decent bread on the side - or maybe some bruschetta - I'd go for the caprese salad every time.
FP
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
oh for a comment editor! In the second paragraph: First i used bread twice in the same damn sentence (lazy!) and also,
"outside these spoken" should read "outside these unspoken".
--FP
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Wow Adam that's a bold statement - but one that I find myself understanding and agreeing on most points.
First up, I hate to say it (but I guess someone is bound to bring it up) :
Is it possible that the frequency and volume of pizza over 9 days may have gone some way to making the margherita seem something of a 'dull pie'? especially when confronted with it 3 or 4 times in one day? I know a lesser pizza aficionado such as myself would be struggling after the third in a day.
I think Margheritas are much like baguettes. They are a fairly universal quantity which can be a gauge of any baker's skill. However, as a bread they often aren't the most inspiring bread in the world. There really isn't much room for creativity or originality. You're working to fairly fixed and standard expectations from the consumer. Anything wildly outside these spoken (or sometimes legal, in the case of parisian baguettes) guidelines would be seen as straying too far and cause for rejection by customers.
All of which is not to say that there aren't really great baguettes. Once in a while, you'll find a baker whose bread goes beyond the 'norm' in terms of depth of flavour, crust, etc. even by 'traditional artisan' standards. Similarly (still following my analogy?!), that extra 'something' is what makes a pizzeria great and memorable. It's not the toppings on the pizza, and it's not any one ingredient or element of the pizza. It's what I'd refer to as the 'soul' of the pizza - that indefinable synergy of crust, sauce and cheese fused by the talent and passion of the pizza maker.
It's the reason why people appreciate and respect pizzaiolos such as Anthony Mangieri because despite the severe restrictions he placed on himself (all the pies were essentially variations on a margherita or marinara) - he was able to come out with something that went above and beyond anything that could be defined by rules or regulations.
And there's the problem. Excellence, or 'soul' (I think I'm getting carried away here!) CANNOT be defined by regulations or tradition. Rules and certification can serve as a good starting point, but if they become the guiding ethos of a pizzeria then there's a fundamental problem with the focus of the pizza maker.
Perhaps in summary it would be fair to say that the Margherita pizza can either the great (terrible?) leveler of the pizza world or the pizza that separates the truly great from the merely competent.
Cheers,
FP
Portland, Oregon: Nostrana
OK I've found what looks to be a photograph of a VPN logo displayed at Nostrana - but as a wall ornament rather than bona fide certificate.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kightp/2308382680/
FP
Portland, Oregon: Nostrana
@WikiAdam
Are you sure it was VPN not APN (Associazione Pizzaiuoli Napoletani) membership that was displayed?
Openings: Paulie Gee's, Greenpoint, Brooklyn
Know this has been a dream of yours for a long time Paulie and has been a while coming. Great to know your pies are finally coming to a wider audience. Wishing you the very best with it and good luck.
FP
Sous-Vide Cooking with Heston Blumenthal
I think a revolution has to happen in peoples' idea of food in general before sous vide machines become a common sight in households. This machine is great for those who want to try ferran adria or blumenthal style cooking at home but most people already have a preconceived idea of their 'ideal steak' or 'ideal burger' - one which is inherently tied to traditional cooking techniques.
If this machine is supposed to spearhead a revolution in food - it's got it's work cut out. Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great tool but I doubt it will hold as much mass appeal as Heston Blumenthal would like.
Barbecue: Brisket
Thanks for answering my questions. I'll bear the advice in mind next time I cook brisket. Appreciate it.
Cheers,
FP
Barbecue: Brisket
Great looking brisket there! Did you smoke it fat side up or down?
In the few times I've tried my hand at brisket - I've not had great results. The meat tends to come out tasting like a smokey pot roast. The 'texas crutch' is really effective though - although I've left it too long before and ended up with 'pulled brisket'...not good sandwich material but made great enchiladas.
I may have to try this again sometime. Do you recommend using a mop during the initial period of smoking?
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Agreed, I think it was probably started with good intentions which got lost somewhere mid atlantic.
Learning about Naples tradition is a valuable education for anyone interested in pizza and even guidelines such as those provided by the VPN are still a good *starting* point, if not the last word in pizza.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
@passion4pizza
Anyone who makes pizza regularly with neapolitan ingredients will know that the official pizza discipline is a great guideline but it won't necessarily give you the best pizza followed word for word.
Things like "allows it to absorb between 50 to
55% of its weight in water to reach the “optimal point” and 4-6 hour rising times just don't produce an 'optimal' product. Work with the flour rather than trying to make your flour do what some guideline says.
Da Michele, for example, deviates from the VPN on several points. No one could accuse that institution of making sub-par neapolitan pizza.
The best pizza comes from experience not from rules and certification - and it's experience that makes pizzaiolos in Naples so good at what they do.
I submit there is an argument to be made that VPN America (for example) is just an attempt to franchise Neapolitan heritage. It essentially represents a consortium of local naples producers and craftspeople through selling the 'Verace Pizza Napoletana brand' to an audience of eager (sometimes misguided) pizza-makers and restauranteurs who feel this contrived sense of authenticity is equivalent to artisanal quality and excellence....or more cynically, a competitive edge in an already saturated market.
If you pay money for training and membership and then buy source all your ingredients from Campania, all your equipment from Naples....AND, after (and assuming) the VPN inspection team approves, you get to use the VPN logo and call yourself 'VPN approved'! Big deal.
They might as well be giving you golden arches to put up outside your pizzeria.
For those who claim this is preservation of tradition and culture, I say - go set up a heritage museum! . I can just see it now: a VPN task force descending on Shanghai to stamp out the manufacture of a new wave of 'fake neapolitan ovens'.
When's the last time VPN got involved in promoting domestic US produce such as olive oil, buffalo mozzarella etc. or educating US producers on how to mill 00 flour, for example? I'm guessing never...not now, not in the future. Here's hoping VPN proves me wrong!
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Serious question: Do they call it 'Neapolitan Pizza' in Naples? or just pizza?
I'm not talking about the famous 'Antica' tourist destinations but the average pizzeria.
FP
You can take the Naples out of the pizza, and it's still good but take the pizza out of Naples and people are going to get upset.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
If people are going to get overly anal about authentic 'Naples' pizza then fine - I vote to leave Neapolitan Pizza in Naples.
Stipulations about tomatoes, flour, cheese and, yes oil poured from copper cannisters are all well and good when you're actually IN Naples. They are just ridiculous when you're in NY. Don't get me wrong, the ingredients are excellent and I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise (I use them regularly at home...although technically, I'm geographically closer to Naples than NY) - but at some point this whole authenticity thing risks becoming a smokescreen (wood fired, to be sure!) for the actual pizza.
Roberta's the 'Best Naples-Style Pizza'? Really, Village Voice?
erm...price, quality and taste....yeah taste - I forgot about that one!
Roberta's the 'Best Naples-Style Pizza'? Really, Village Voice?
@seriouspizza
Easy there! Not everyone digs the neapolitan style. Although it is strange for a writer who shows a distinct lack of love for the style to write about what they deem to be 'Best Naples Style Pizza'. Does the title even mean anything at that point?
The use of quotation marks as well as the context (rest of the article) indicates the writer was talking about the trend of neapolitan pizza in NY. What seems to have been the main thrust of the blurb, was their opinion that 'naples style' is being used to sell a more expensive pizza
It's a fair point that in a crowded market, terms like 'authentic neapolitan' are now common currency used to justify the existence and alleged ethos of any given 'neapolitan style' pizzeria.
I suspect these claims of authenticity are a red herring (which Napoletanaphiles get easily hung up on) when price and quality should be the real issues for any place that makes and sells pizza.
Thai Pizza Co in St. Louis: Testing the Universality of Pizza
My 'asian pizza' experiences include peking duck sauce pizza (from some chain...I forget which) and thai green chicken curry pizza from Planet Pizza in Bristol (UK) - they were both wretched.
The more pizza I eat, the more conservative my tastes become. At least that's how it seems, although I still want to try a saag paneer pizza sometime.
Karen Bornarth's and Roger Gural's Croissants
@jbary
I can't speak for the recipe above but normally only a small amount of butter (40g it would seem in this case) is incorporated into the dough (detrempe) and separate butter (quantity not specified apparently) is used in the lamination (beurrage).
The amount of butter used in lamination for croissant dough is typically about 25% of the weight of the detrempe which in this case is about 450g. However since no amount is specified above, I couldn't say for sure.
@chichiwang
"Pound out cold butter to make it more extensible without softening"
Is it possible there is a typo here - and one should be using a POUND of butter (ie 450g which would be roughly 25% of the unlaminated dough)
FP
Atlanta's Enrico Liberata Moves from Fritti to Antico Pizza Napoletana
That looks like one damn fine pie.
The Best Mooncakes for the Mid-Autumn Festival
This year I've got the tried and trusted Wing Wah but also a whole assortment of 'Yizhiwan" mini mooncakes - loads of different flavours. Been eating them all month!
FP
Video: 'Naturally Risen' a Fitting Epitaph for Una Pizza Napoletana
@BKNY64 Are you sure that wasn't Tony Gemignani's place? 'Tony's Pizza Napoletana'?
Good Idea: How to Really Reheat Pizza in a Skillet or on a Griddle
Just tried this on a cold slice. Really good!
Quick Profile on Jay Jerrier of Il Cane Rosso
@Paulie
Thanks. That's a fantastic selection at Salumeria Biellese and they make most of it in house - amazing.
and yes, you are most definitely a champion of the Sopressata Picante cause (btw - one 'p' or two and one 'c' or two? I've seen it spelt (spelled?!) all different ways.
Cheers,
FP
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
@jedfielding: Thanks for commenting; I'm a fan of Spacca as well. Incidentally, when posting about Spacca, you should probably disclose that you are friends with the owners and that your photographs (which">http://www.jedfielding.com/city-of-secrets.html">which are great) adorn the walls.
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
Don't know much about the new guys, but Spacca's thin crust is the best this side of Naples
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
My family has been going to SpaccaNapoli since it has opened...we love the place! Great ambience, everyone gets what they want and it doesn't cost a fortune.....wouldn't go anywhere else for Neopolitan-style pizza!
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
@forzapizza I'm just glad my ship is going nowhere near Somalia.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
Looks like Christmas come early for you Mr. Gee! Something tells me the scene at the dock is gonna look something like this...
Waiting for the oven!
Buona Fortuna!
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
It's no longer a rumor. And it's on the water. It left the Naples dock on 11/15. Due to arrive at the Brooklyn piers on 11/28. Or perhaps 11/29.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
Hmmmm could mr ferrara be exporting that oven to ummmm? Brooklyn?
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
Is Wednesday too early to start waiting in line?
-Forza Pizza
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
I think it’s interesting that Spacca Napoli – my favorite Neapolitan pizza place outside of Italy - is about to expand. Then I read about other places opening now. Any of those will have to do a lot to take on Spacca.
Robert Scarola - Co-host "Cuisine Scene - Chicago" WIND-AM Radio at 7:03AM on 11/17/09
Openings: Paulie Gee's, Greenpoint, Brooklyn
Say for you Cincinnatus.
Thanks,
Paulie Gee
Openings: Paulie Gee's, Greenpoint, Brooklyn
Thanks very much for the kind word and support Za Man. I'm lookin' forward to having you stop in.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
Openings: Paulie Gee's, Greenpoint, Brooklyn
good luck paulie i have followed you on slice and flicker . the pictures of the pizzerias you visit are sensational. you are going to do great, i am looking forward to your opening. you can make a living and maintain the love of your craft. keep it simple and honest the public will get it .
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Too much talk, just eat your favorite pizza and enjoy.
Seattle: Via Tribunali, Neapolitan-Style Pizza
@seriouspizza: I agree that more than heat alone causes leoparding......thorough fermentation and other factors, all of which I do not pretend to understand as I have never cooked pizza in a WFO.
Although a pizza certainly does not need to be leoparded to be good!
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
One of the few benefits of living on LawnGuyland is we can get enough soil to grow basil the proper way.
@pizzablogger: I had to stare at GMAFB for a full thirty seconds before its meaning came to me. I've been out of Brooklyn too long.
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Crack for pizza eh Adam? is this driving the pizza commodity market up or down in the PNW?
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Please don't mention me in the same breath as the foolish one in this case. When it comes to whispering into the yeast, he is in a league of his own.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
@passion4pizza: yeast whisperer = no. raving lunatic with a propensity to blather at times = yes.
The real yeast whisperers here would be people like Foolish Poolish and Paulie Gee.....and most definitely some of the folks over at pizzamaking.com. I'm still a rank amateur when it comes to pizza making.
@seriouspizza: GMAFB. Don't use hydro basil, have and use 3 SD cultures as well as instant yeast and fool around with squares, rounds and grilled pizza for fun....although that mixture may brighten my mood today! :)
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Italian food has always been one of the more ingredient-driven cuisines, versus technique-driven cuisines like French and the various varieties of Chinese food. It's about starting with very high-quality ingredients and 'giving them respect.' Having high-quality ingredients that can stand on their own without much alteration can be hard for a business to do, and still sell enough pizza to stay in business.
I don't eat pizza much any more, and when I do I get just a very little bit of tomato sauce and one or two veggies, usually, not Margherita. For me, the most important and unique thing about any pizza is the crust, and that can never be 'boring,' just good or bad.
Re: toppings--I think there is a difference between getting one or two high-quality toppings, versus getting some kind of 'specialty' pie (like Hawaiian, artichoke, sausage and fennel, and so forth) because then you're throwing a completely different flavor profile into the mix.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think is the ideal cheese combo? It sounds like you're saying that, given the choice between a truly outstanding Italian-American slice, with provolone or some other cheeses in the 'mix' and the standard Margherita, you'd take the former. I think lots of people would agree with you on that choice.
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Pizzablogger:"The context of my post was why limit yourself to anything."
On that sound advice i'm now.......
1) Smoking Hydroponic Basil.
2) Sniffin' Ischia hooch.
3) Drinking the Verasano Kool Aid
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
I personally prefer a well made margherita - but i've had both good and bad from VPN places. The standard doesn't call for DOP tomatoes - and I have not found a difference with non-DOP (except for price). It's difficult to follow all of the rules to the letter (they have now even banned standard spiral mixers (i.e. hobart). I think the stuff that Motorino, Bianco and Paulie Gee with the Neapolitan style is great.
You know what I think is the worst part about pizza?? Selling "by the slice"...or "in which I find that pizza by the slice sucks". Why would someone want a slice of pizza from a shop...it is basically old pizza that is reheated. We do a lot of fairs/festivals with our mobile oven and everyone wants to buy just a slice. Why have a reheated old slice when you can have a fresh made pizza?
Whoa, Nella: Grassano's Return to Chicago's Pizza Scene Is Imminent
It's official: Doors will open on Friday, November 20.
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
Pizzablogger:
Have you ever played opera to your basil plants or talked to your dough late in the evening? What an effing mess this all is!
Should we start calling you "The Yeast Whisperer?"
-Cary
In Which I Find Margherita Pizzas Boring
seriouspizza....I agree there is great non DOP stuff. The context of my post was why limit yourself to anything.....I agree good ole USA tomatoes (some ripe, "ugly" heirlooms or romas grown in a backyard with good soil kick serious butt) can be very good.
You're definitely pouring a flavor (or two) away when that sauce goes down the drain, which is exactly the point. I've peeled the top off of many, many cans and brands of DOPs and the liquid was worth using 3 or 4 times, maybe 5 or 6 at most. I don't prefer bitter or tinny notes in my sauce, but to each their own I guess. --K
Recent Posts
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The Food Lab: Perfect Boiled Eggs
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, October 9, 2009 at 11:45 AM
Making Scarpetta's Tomato-Basil Spaghetti with Scott Conant
Posted by Carey Jones, October 5, 2009 at 4:20 PM
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About foolishpoolish
Website: http://foolishpoolishbakes.wordpress.com
Location: UK
About:
Favorite foods: Pizza (kinda obvious!), a good curry, sushi, meze of all kinds, (Chicago) hot dogs, Italian beef sandwich (hot dipped), baked goods, dim sum, cantonese, barbeque (pulled pork sandwich), Cincinnati chili.
Last bite on earth: the dust?

@seriouspizza Are you David at pizzamaking.com by any chance? (apologies if you're not).