I"m pretty sure the De Buyer Mineral and Mineral B (and Carbone Plus and whatever they're calling their thinner stuff now) are carbon steel. Their descriptions alternate between iron and steel (and between fer and acier) pretty liberally. It's pretty reasonable to say that steel is a type of iron. It's actually more iron than cast iron, from what little I know about alloys.
Since cast iron has more carbon (and less iron) than carbon steel, it is more brittle, and can't be "pressed into the shape typically used for carbon steel".
@RichTaylor - I'm very interested in your take on Mineral B being far superior to Mineral. I believe the only non-cosmetic difference is that they put beeswax on the Mineral B. They claim it helps with the seasoning (in addition to protecting the pan before it is seasoned), but I've kinda doubted that. Was that your experience?
@devolve: I have a de Buyer carbon steel pan that pretty much lives on my stove top. What don't you like? If you want to get rid of yours, maybe I can PM you my address :]
I've had a harder time getting initial seasoning to stick to my carbon steel pans than my cast iron pans. I think that's because my cast iron pans were either vintage or pre-seasoned, whereas my carbon steel pans were new with protective coatings. Well, maybe. I followed instructions for removing the coatings and re-seasoned the carbon steel pans unsuccessfully several times - you'd think the coatings would go away faster. Eventually, I gave up on trying to season the cooking surfaces (the non-cooking surfaces don't have the problem) and just let it happen at it's own pace.
Another advantage I of CS over CI: I don't think I've ever seen a broken CS pan. I have seen a couple of old Griswold's get broken. Heartbreaking, it was, I tell ya. Old CI is both more fragile and less replaceable.
I think I'll pass on this. The minor convenience of skipping the jar isn't worth the risks of explosions and toxins, IMO. And I would absolutely not try "pouring the condensed milk in a can and using a microwave" or keeping a can I cooked around on a shelf. Cans are meant for storing, not slow cooking, and definitely not slow cooking then storing. Boiling the can for hours could compromise the integrity of the can, causing pin holes or split seams that you might not see.
I have a theory on the overall lack of pizza by-the-slice quality in the Bay Area and most other parts of the country: it's partly the consumers' fault because they don't get it. The need to specify "cheese slice" and the idea that folding the slice is a NY thing are deficiencies in PBTS culture and hindrances to quality slice production. The production problem relates to the fact that it's hard to produce decent slices without consistent, reasonably high volumes. And that means you need a lot of customers coming and going quickly. Which means, get your slice and get out. Eat it while you walk, one-handed. You need to fold it.
The "cheese" specifying is full of problems. First off, it's a ridiculous choice of things to call it. How many slices shops sell slices without cheese? It's also just inefficient. Not in a big way in itself, but it contributes to the slow mentality that plagues the system. And the biggest problem, imo, is the implication of choice. Sure, you can choose something besides a plain slice, but for the most part, you shouldn't. All that "hmmm...I guess I'll have...1 of these and...what's that?...blah blah blah" slows things down and makes for worse slices. Not to mention the fact that the place has to provide all those choices, instead of focusing on and cranking out optimal slices.
I hate the way people throw around "___ nazi", but the fictionalized soup nazi's mentality was exactly right for a slice shop: know what you want, order quickly, have your money out, get out of the way. He may have seemed like a jerk, but he was doing Jerry, Elaine and all the others a favor.
Wow - I was at one of these places shortly after you posted the pics on twitter, but before I saw them. Then when I saw your pics, I didn't recognize it at all. The crust on the slice I got was floppy, super greasy, and monotone pale yellow. The previous time I ate there it was so tough my jaw hurt after eating it.
I also went to Presidio Pizza Co. a few days ago. I decided against the grandma (the cornicione was almost twice as wide as the one in your picture), but now I wish I had tried it. My daughter and I both liked the regular slice, and she's the pickiest pizza eater I know.
I would have been a bit surprised if a post about Southern corn bread tradition DIDN'T mention Anson Mills.
Behrens - it sounds like you have partially polymerized oil spots. If so, then further cooking might turn them into finished (hard & slick) seasoning. However, you might not want that. Relatively thick, spotty seasoning isn't really what you want.
A pan that is sticky after long periods of non-use probably doesn't indicate that the seasoning came off, but that it was left with unsaturated oil residue which has "dried" - somewhat polymerized, but not hardened. I would try to remove it without removing the seasoning beneath. Moderate heat might soften it to the point where a lot of rubbing, maybe with soap, could remove it.
I was expecting the tag to show. <em>
"Your piece emphasizes polymerized oil"
This is indisputably true, in that it uses the emphasis tag: "polymerized oil"
I have a stainless steel pan with a very durable coating of seasoning on it. If you want bullet-proof seasoning on stainless or any other pan, the best method, in my experience, is to do it accidentally.
I worked at place where we toasted bread brushed with olive oil on aluminum pizza plates in a wood-fired oven, right next to the roaring fire. The dishwashers [people] would scrub the pans with steel scrubbers then run them through the commercial dishwasher [machine]. They still built up tough-as-nails seasoning, which we occasionally burned off by leaving them in the back of the oven.
I concur with all your points, Kenji. I think I do - I didn't go back and check every single one. Something else I believe now, after years of trying things and messing up frequently: don't over-season your pan, and babying it is bad for it. You don't want to build up layers of weak seasoning. Put minimal seasoning on a new pan, keep it oiled, use it a lot, and clean it pretty aggressively to remove both food bits and weak bits of seasoning.
dagaetch - the salt thing has always shocked me. Not that it can't be useful, but there are many people who are afraid of soap and scrubbies, yet think grinding little rocks into their seasoning is fine.
That Margherita pic is making me sooooo hungry.
My tips for moving from NYC to SF (apologies for some repeats of above):
1) "The City" - people from the Bay Area are not referring to NYC when they say "the City". Weird, huh? Someone recently told me that a pizzeria in the East Bay had the best pizza anywhere, and she added "and I'm from the City!". I had to stop and think. It sounded like the kind of authority that NYers often claim...but eventually I correctly guessed that she was referring to SF, for some reason.
2) Call it "Frisco". Really, do.
3) If you're in the Bay Area, 80W goes toward "the City" and the ocean, not 80E. I've had to make an embarrassing number of u-turns since moving west.
4) What that other person said about people crossing the street. Traffic has nothing to do with it - they just do what the sign says. If the sign changes to walk, they'll step in front of a moving car without so much as a glance to the left. In a post-apocalyptic hellscape, they'll be stuck on whatever block they were on before the power went out.
5) When you make a right turn at a light, in car, with blinker, someone on a bicycle will try to pass you on the right as you do so. And they'll think you're the idiot. Also, cars are SUPPOSED to merge into the bike lane before turning - that's what the dashed line is for. It's meant to stop bikers from doing the aforementioned, but it doesn't. It makes them yell at the driver.
6) Motorcyclists think that riding on the lane lines between cars is legal, and, get this, the safer thing to do. Ponch and Jon included (http://www.chp.ca.gov/programs/lanesplitguide.html). And, thanks to checks-and-balances, this makes it effectively "true". The legal part, that is. However, if you ever find yourself in an argument over the legality of it, say, as a motorcyclist vs a non-motorcycle cop, or as the driver of a car that is suddenly missing a mirror, you should be familiar with CVC21658a and CVC22107, for starters.
7) No one seems to know what cars are supposed to do around cable cars and their tracks.
Looks like I got into a bit of a driving tangent there, but you don't really need another opinion of In 'N Out, do you?
Count me among the droolers. I don't think the crust is so thick, except in the handle. I think Roberto is a cornicione "former" - meaning that he makes the edge thicker before baking.
Is it safe to assume that the pies here are on par with Keste? I'm probably not going to be Atlanta any time soon.
As the sagacious and handsome "f r y" said about a year ago:
"Even a 100% PizzaHacker place wouldn't necessarily be trying to replicate his prior work."
Jello Shots? I definitely should have come earlier.
He's lucky Patsy was in a good mood.
I skipped lunch, sat down at my computer to get work done, and then this comes up. How am I supposed to work now? I'm _starving_.
Maggie - I arrived at the bday party pretty late. Did we meet? I pro'lly would have remembered if we did.
I look at Paulie's post and think "Man, I must be doing this wrong." At the moment, I can only think of 4 places I've eaten pizza at this year: Emilia's, Del Popolo, PizzaHacker (the new place, codename phatco), and Slicer. I had my hands in the first 3, and the fourth one was just opened by another friend (and former co-worker), so I really haven't gotten out much. Oh, wait, no, I just thought of 2 other places, but they weren't worth naming here.
So, with that disclaimer, all the pizza I had from friends' places was fantastic. Sure, there's bias there, but which way does it go? Do I like their pizzas because they are my friends, or are they my friends because I like their pizzas?
dhorst - that coconut milk mozz wasn't cooked on the pizza, right? Did you try that?
Also, do you have a light hand with the Aleppo pepper? I can't see it.
"It seems like more is being read into this article than was intended."
When I put in the euro sign, it looks fine in preview, but shows up as an a with a carat followed by a dash the drops down at then end. I'm going to enter those characters to see how they show up.
Gonna back JEL up here. Antico was the highlight of my recent ATL pizza crawl (if that word can be used to describe travelling at least 45 minutes by car any time I went anywhere). Definitely one of the most evocative of Naples amongst U.S. pizzerias I've visited, except for a few minor things (anticO instead of anticA, $18 instead of €4, putting "dal 1889" in their logo vs. actually being around since the 19th century). Having 3 ovens reminds me specifically of Trianon, except that I could imagine Trianon actually needing 3 ovens. Antico was packed when I was there, and one oven could easily keep up.
AK: you mean VINCENT, not Maximillian, I assume. I'd love an oven that could communicate via ESP like VINCENT.
Yeah, you shouldn't have been surprised that Patsy's old place would use bags just like his new place. If you had gone to Grimaldi's in Hoboken, however, you would have gotten a box (unless things have reverted). Seems there was an employee there who thought the bags were kinda dumb, especially since the Hoboken Grimaldi's delivers. He'd say "yeah, I know Patsy likes the bags, but he's not delivering the pizzas, is he?". He was quite brash. And handsome.
BTW: barbie tables. Those little white discs with three legs are meant to keep the bag or box from collapsing onto the pizza. The protocol with the bags was to use several if pizzas were to be stacked. But, since you only got 1 pie from Grimaldi's, I wouldn't expect they'd do that.