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When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I spend a lot of money on food, travel a lot for food, and don't mind spending a lot of money on food. I draw the line here:
We live in Toronto. About 1.5 hours out of Toronto is a restaurant called Eisengein Farms (sp?). The chef is Michael Statdlander. The cost per person is $250 flat, no alchol (it's a BYOB restaurant). Because it's so far out of town, you would either have to stay at a local B & B, have a driver, or don't consume alcohol. So after buying wine, gratuity, $500 for 2, plus either a limo or a B&B, you are looking at close to $1000 for one night. A bit too much for me.
That said, I have heard only excellent things about the food.
Souvenir from Paris
I 100% agree with macarons from Pierre Herme. Fleur de sel is great but you can find it, imported, at home. Not so the macarons.
Let's talk Deep Fryer
Thanks everyone, for the feedback. Believe it or not, I hadn't considered getting a fryer basked for my regular deeper pots -- I think that's what I'll try first. Storage is a bit of an issue for me -- I imagine storing it in the basement and getting it when I need it but, as I type this, I imagine it never being pulled out of the basement. If I do decide to give a deep fryer a whirl, I will keep LunaPierCook's advice in mind.
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Hoodsie History
My mom used to by a "brick" of neapolitan ice cream (a quarton gallon? I don't know the official size but it was the size of a brick, hence the name). She'd then make 2 waffles and put a slice of the neapolitan ice cream between the waffles.
And "strawberry shortcake" ice cream bars. These ones are still around.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I spend a lot of money on food, travel a lot for food, and don't mind spending a lot of money on food. I draw the line here:
We live in Toronto. About 1.5 hours out of Toronto is a restaurant called Eisengein Farms (sp?). The chef is Michael Statdlander. The cost per person is $250 flat, no alchol (it's a BYOB restaurant). Because it's so far out of town, you would either have to stay at a local B & B, have a driver, or don't consume alcohol. So after buying wine, gratuity, $500 for 2, plus either a limo or a B&B, you are looking at close to $1000 for one night. A bit too much for me.
That said, I have heard only excellent things about the food.
Souvenir from Paris
I 100% agree with macarons from Pierre Herme. Fleur de sel is great but you can find it, imported, at home. Not so the macarons.
Let's talk Deep Fryer
Thanks everyone, for the feedback. Believe it or not, I hadn't considered getting a fryer basked for my regular deeper pots -- I think that's what I'll try first. Storage is a bit of an issue for me -- I imagine storing it in the basement and getting it when I need it but, as I type this, I imagine it never being pulled out of the basement. If I do decide to give a deep fryer a whirl, I will keep LunaPierCook's advice in mind.
oeuf en cocotte recipe
I used the recipe from Julia Child and it was delicious. We sat outside on a chilly Hallowe'en, shelling out goodies to the little ones, and eating oeufs en cocotte a la sauce de cari, with toasted baguette. A neighbour blasting Vincent Price reading Edgar Allen Poe into the trees. Another neighbour sharing her becherovka across the hedge. It was a Hallowe'en to remember.
Do you own a microwave oven? What do you use it for?
Popping popcorn. And melting butter for the popcorn. That's pretty much it.
What''s your favorite way to eat peanut butter?
Smooth pb on whole grain toast. With the butter on top of the peanut butter.
Which is your ultimate comfort food?
Pork chops in mushroom soup, baked in the oven, very hot.
What do you pack for lunch?
I usually eat lunch out 2 times per week. On the other 3 days, it's a salad -- usually a tossed green salad with whatever veggies are in the fridge and a can of Italian tuna, or a caesar salad with bacon and reggiano shavings. I make it in the morning before I head off to work.
Thanksgiving! (In Canada, It's This Weekend)
My husband and I and a friend are planning to start with apple pie and a bottle of Condrieu. Then heading out for dosas for dinner. And then give thanks to David Cronenburg by watching Eastern Promises!
Japanese Cookbooks
Thank you both. I will order both books. We are planning a trip to Tokyo, for food, so I will definitely look up Mrs. Andoh's market tour!
Treats, what was dropped in your Halloween sack?
When I was a kid, my favourite treat was a pint of chocolate milk. I think the giver was the neighbourhood milkman.
Would you rather give up chocolate or cheese?
Cheese.
You can stash chocoloate everywhere -- desk at work, night-table, carry-on luggage, purse at funerals, pocket at the theatre. You know, a little bit of 70% Madagascar chocolate, or 75% Tanzanian chocolate, or a Green & Black's Mayan Gold. But some fresh buffala mozzarella? What are you going to do with that when the going gets tough?
Chocolate will take you through Armageddon!
Which is your ultimate comfort food?
mashed pototoes with butter and garlic
spaghetti with marinara, basil, and fresh parm., salad and garlic bread
pasta e fagioli
tiramisu
ham, bean, and pototo soup....any soup really...
saurkraut and keilbasa or pork roast and mashed potoes...
i could go all day.. i'm def. a comfort eater... thank goodness for a GREAT metabolism!
Which is your ultimate comfort food?
scalloped potatoes or eggs over easy with buttered toast.
Not comfort food for me but I second the Simon Hopkinson recommendation! Mark Bittman has a similar pasta w/ pesto and potatoes - they're both good.
Which is your ultimate comfort food?
Crepes filled with applesauce and dusted with powdered sugar. My mom always called them applesauce pancakes and whenever I have them I am whisked back to my childhood kitchen and memories of her.
Which is your ultimate comfort food?
It used to be homemade mac & cheese, but then I tried Simon Hopkinson's linguine with pesto % new potatoes (starch, starch, starch but delicious) which I make without the mint, which I find a bit odd. The recipe appears here if you don't have his second cookbook: http://www.oneforthetable.com/oftt/stories/linguine.html
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
When I first moved to NYC I seriously thought I'd have to choose between paying rent and eating. At all. A few months of exploring later, and I've found some real gems that have been fine for my palate AND my wallet. I'd love to hear some of your picks for cheaps eats, and you're welcome to check out mine.
www.fruglebuglenyc.blogspot.com
Hoodsie History
I once, yes, just once, had a vanilla-flavored popsicle. It was blue and absolutely wonderful. I have never seen one since.
In the 1950s, Hoodsies had pictures of actors and actresses on th einside of the top lid, For some reason, they were printed in blue ink.
At Fenway Park, vendors sold 3 flavored Hood ice cream cups.
Hoodsie History
Chester Bars from New Hampshire, though I'll be damned if I can find the first bit of information about them online!
Let's talk Deep Fryer
I know some people are going to cringe but I use this mainly
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw/104-3280762-5325524?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=presto+kitchen+kettle
That is right a 20 dollar kitchen kettle. I have 2 of them and I use them for deep frying. They are non stick so they clean easy, they have a temp gauge so you get good and even hot oil. The basket is easy to clean.
We also use it for a on the quick pot, you can cook right in it.
I cannot tell you how many chili cookoffs this item has been to. I do not own a crock pot (OMG) but I have one of these. It is by and large the best cheap thing I ever purchased.
Let's talk Deep Fryer
I am curious about storage. I am a healthy cook and dont intend to use a deep fryer often, so how long can the used oil be stored? Would freezing it make it last longer?
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
L'Orangerie. And it's too expensive if it is more than you'd budgeted or less than you'd expected. Outrageous if both.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I think of fine dining as theater, an indulgence of all the senses. When done well, you are entertained, surprised, elated, and amused. A great example of this was my birthday dinner at Sushi Zen. Chef Suzuki created a custom 12 course meal of exquisite beauty and harmony that moved like a symphony for more than two hours. My companion and I were deeply moved, nearly to the point of tears (of joy). I am happily waiting for the next occasion to go again, and would be happy to pay the $150 per person. And that's a lot of money for me, more than I spend normally in a month in restaurants.
My point of comparison is theater, which in NY is far more expensive than almost any restaurant. Could you imagine having a ballet performed for you and your companion by one of the great dancers of the world for only $150? Its a lot for dinner, but not a lot for an unforgettable experience.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
Having dined at some of America's "best" restaurants including The French Laundry, Gallileo, Masa, L'Orangie (sp), Joe's Stone Crab, Radius, Al Forno, Lutece, LeCirque, Daniel, etc. Some have been grat and some have been OK, but over the years ingredients have become increasingly expensive, as has real estate & payrolls. The question of value vs. quality is not a simple one, but here is some perspective. Pizza - Franny's vs. Grimaldi's - Grimaldi's is a full size pizza with quality ingredients and enough of them (yes, a pizza is $16, but you will leave full) Franny's is a small personal size uncut pizza (yes, a pizza is $16, but you will leave hungry as it has fine quality ingredients, but not much of them) I had to get a slice somewhere after eating here. A Subway sandwich vs. a hero from Alidoro for about the same price, both will fill you up, but quality - no contest! A burger from hamburger heaven and a hamburger from BLT Burger - same price, but no contest. Go to Westville for a whole trout for $16 or a mediocre fish house and pay $25. Yes, you will have a table cloth, but an inferior fish and why did you go out to eat to begin with? A homemade gnocchi @ MaxSoha for $9.95 or Olive Garden pasta for more money and lesser quality. Look for quality and craftsmanship when you dine. It could be a great hot dog or pizza or hamburger or it can be a shortrib or lobster - cheap can mean cheap, but care what you put in your stomach and know how to compare apples to apples. Are there expensive restaurants that merit big dollars, yes, but make sure the chef who's cooking you are paying for is in the kitchen. Ouest, A Voce, Fiamma, Park Avenue (season), Union Square Cafe, all deserve a nod because the chef is in & running the show...pride = value.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
what else could i be doing with the money? that's my question. if i can spend 20 on a pizza and not be full or 16 and be stuffed, then it feels better to be full. obviously if i had greater income, i would just order more of the 20 dollar pizzas and be done with it, but i think a better question would be:
how much do people spend on meals out of their own pocket in a calendar year?
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
$600 for a meal is a form of economic discrimination-exclusion, for lack of a better term. Like the person above who remarked about the Bentley owners. It's obvious, to me anyway.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
Food is worth whatever the market will bear. To make sense of it's value, you really need to consider what the product actually is, and the nature of the consumers bidding up it's value.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I disagree with Ed's opinion and measure the cost of my food in very different values. Read more at Annie's New York Eats:
http://www.annienewman.typepad.com/anniesnyeats/2007/11/the-cost-of-foo.html
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I'm not wealthy. But, I do spend a ridiculous amount of my disposable income on food (and wine, for that matter) and truly resent when my money is wasted, be it $10 or $100. I don't even dream of eating at Per Se. For our anniversary each year, my wife and I dine at Le Bernardin. In the 20+ years of wedded bliss, we've seen the prix fixe at Le B go from $55 to $107.
Bottle of wine, tip, coat check girl and were talking nearly $400 once a year. A lot of money? You bet. Worth it? Every penny of it. The effort that goes into creating the meal is evident from the moment you sit down. The service is flawless and the atmosphere, a bit stuffy, I'll admit, but all part of the show.
Recently tried a new Italian joint in Park Slope. Appetizers were $8-10 each, pastas $14-18. Dinner for three was $60. But I went home hungry and had a second dinner at home. What I felt was anger, felt like I was taken for a ride. 20 bucks a person and angry. 200 a person and pleased as punch. Go figure.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
I think for me, it is much easier to justify spending a lot of money on good sushi rather than an expensive dinner at JG, Per Se, etc. I really have no problem spending 100-150$ on a sushi dinner because the price of the fish and skill of the sushi chef are much easier to justify. I can understand and would be maybe be willing to spend $300 dollars for myself at Masa if i were in the right mood. That said, I spent $300 on a dinner for two at Vetri in Philadelphia this summer which probably pushed the limits of how much I'm willing to spend on a single meal. It was delicious, but close to pushing my limits. However, that meal it was apparent how much work was put into the food as well as the quality of ingredients. Basically, if what I'm paying is whats on the plate I am much more willing to pay a premium than for something near times square, for example, that is blatantly overpriced.
When Is Food Too Expensive? What's Your Bottom Line?
After many great meals in New York City, including Per Se and Jean Georges, amongst many others, I find that I've been putting a greater emphasis on a very subjective "enjoyment per dollar" scale.
A place like Per Se simply doesn't stand up on this scale. I've had meals nearly as good (arguably better) for half the price. It's good, but not $500+ good.
David Cross has a funny bit (on his album "It's Not Funny") on a trip to Jean Georges where he has the epiphany, "wait a second ... you guys! This isn't worth five hundred dollars! Come on! Where's Ashton?" I think I had the same epiphany when I got my bill at Per Se.
That said, if I'm not paying, well ...
If a meal is within shooting distance of $100 per person (give or take), it must be exceptionally good due to the fact that I can be very satisfied by any number of dishes for far less.
"Love," "passion," "great skill," "truly special," "motivation," "artistry," and "obsession" are irrelevant if these aspects aren't there on the plate. Does it taste good? Does it look good? Those are the things that I'm concerned about. The chef won't give me the time of day and doesn't want to befriend me, so I don't care what kind of world he lives in or the nature of the process.
Do you own a microwave oven? What do you use it for?
i don't have one. to be honest, they kind of give me the creeps.
Souvenir from Paris
You should ask David Lebovitz!
Hillary
Chew on That
Souvenir from Paris
Something I always get is French cereal. The Kellog cereal in France is really different and not something you can find here in the U.S. My favorite is the muesli with dark chocolate bits/shavings. Amazing stuff.
Souvenir from Paris
I've actually brought back food from overseas several times. Not huge amounts of anything, but specific snacks or treats that I can't get in the states.
I always declare what I am bringing in and have never had to pay any extra tariff or had to leave anything behind.
Souvenir from Paris
Wow thank you all so much for your great responses. I just finished skimming through them but I'm out the door again. Right now I think I'm leaving towards those macarons haha
Souvenir from Paris
Go to David Lebovitz's web site. He's former pastry chef of Chez Panisse and author of numerous cookbooks on chocolate, ice cream and desserts. Lives in Paris and has lists of things foodies in town should make sure to visit, eat and bring home as gifts.
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My mom used to by a "brick" of neapolitan ice cream (a quarton gallon? I don't know the official size but it was the size of a brick, hence the name). She'd then make 2 waffles and put a slice of the neapolitan ice cream between the waffles.
And "strawberry shortcake" ice cream bars. These ones are still around.