Kenji - I started off making pizzas using either your or the CI NY Style pizza dough. Food processor, cold ferment, etc. But then I started going with the Lahey No-Knead. As of late, I've been doing Lahey No-Knead, but putting it in the refrigerator for at least 2 days after a 9-12 hour room temperature rise for proper gluten formation. You didn't include the Lahey No-Knead dough here. Can you please explain how it compares to the other doughs / where it fits in? What would happen if you use it for a high temp bake a la Neapolitan? What about a slower bake? And what if you made it thicker and cooked it in a sheet pan that wasn't preheated? Thanks.
It is funny that you posted this combination. Right now I am in the middle of making a similar pizza (pan is heating up).
Lahey no-knead dough (18-hour bench rise, 6 hours in the refrigerator, 2 hour proof), a base of caramelized onions and potato sauce (onions, potatoes, salt, pepper, olive oil, and white wine vinegar), aged mozzarella, Parmesan, blanched broccoli, thinly sliced garlic, aleppo pepper, and olive oil. I cook it using the skillet-broiler method.
My wife has declared it her favorite pizza so far. It would be interesting to do the same with either blanched green beans, asparagus, or cauliflower.
Granted that overall specialization and division of labor leads to greater (material) quality of life. But I think that specialization, taken to the extreme, damages the human spirit. Being capable in only one domain, but being dependent in every other, can lead to anxiety. We only feel secure in certain environments, places that value the one thing we offer, and where the other things we need are available. And we avoid everywhere else. There are MANY things that I find fun, but part of the reason that I cook is that it is both fun AND productive. I get better and better at being able to provide something of value to myself and my family. When I lived in Manhattan or San Francisco, perhaps it made less sense. But now that I live in a literal and figurative culinary desert (Beer Sheva, Israel), I am so glad I invested the time and money that I did. The best pizza (and some of the best food in general) in at least a 60-minute drive radius comes out of my kitchen. And just last week I started a workshop in my house where 6 people are learning, one night per week, how to make pizza they and their families will love. 5 more are already signed up for next month. I would not have been able to do this, but for the exponential growth in my own knowledge and skills due to Kenji, Slice, etc. Soon, I will have many places to eat great pizza - the kitchens of my friends and neighbors. (I just need to find somewhere here that can cut us some baking steels - no way I am going to schlep 10 of them in my suitcase).
Thought I'd try to ask this questions again - Kenji, it sounds like you like these results as much, if not more, than the skillet-broiler method. I always thought that putting sauce on cooked dough, rather than raw, would cause the texture of the dough-sauce interface to be "off." (I've felt the same way about grilled pizza.) Why isn't this the case?
Good to see that this thread has gotten some action more recently. I was hoping to get an answer about cold fermenting no-knead dough.
The Lahey recipe calls for an up to 18 hour ambient ferment, during which time the activity of the yeast "chemically kneads" the dough. But I remember reading somewhere that the slower cold fermentation MAY cause there to be less-than-ideal "chemical kneading" because the dough is firmer in the refrigerator.
So, has anyone tried this?
And using this method (Cold Ferment + No Knead) when would be the best time to do the cold ferment - right after mixing, after 4 hours, after 8 hours?
And would there be a problem with a longer-than-4-hour ambient ferment AFTER a cold ferment?
Thanks.
Cancun. Like the griddled tortilla and whole chunks of avocado.
Your skillet-broiler method has become my go-to way of making pizza. In this recipe, you are putting a room temperature cast iron pan in the oven for 12-15 minutes. I understand that the recipe would not work with a hot pan, since the dough has to sit there and spread for a couple of hours, but what are your thoughts about starting the pan on the stove before moving it to the oven for broiling?
Hummus means chickpeas. There is something strange about calling something "edamame hummus."
I do cream soda with some good vanilla extract and simple syrup. I also just drop large pieces of lemon, lime, and orange zest in the bottles of soda. No sweetener.
Any chance Kenji can answer scalfin's question about a 24-hour cook time?
I appreciate the sensitivity about Israel/Palestine, and the relationship between Israelis and Palestinians. All the more so when the sponsor of the trip is a hasbara (PR for Israel) group. But Carey didn't conflate Israel with hummus. She traveled to Israel and ate a diverse array of foods, prepared by Israeli citizens, from a variety of backgrounds. This probably included Jews whose families had come to Palestine/Israel from all over the world as well as Arabs/Palestinians whose families had been in Palestine for many generations. (There are also Jewish Israelis whose families lived in Palestine for many generations before the state was founded, as well as Arabs/Palestinians whose families came from elsewhere in the Middle East sometime in the last 100 years). The most well-knows and well-regarded hummus places in Israel have always been those run by Arabs/Palestinians: Abu Shukri in Abu Ghosh, Abu Hassan in Jaffa, Abu Sayid in Akko (and a branch in Beer Sheva). The owners of these places are not Jews, but they are Israeli citizens. Whether they identify as Israeli or not is a pretty complicated question. Until they were outdone by a Lebanese group, the previous record-holder for the largest vat of hummus was an Arab Israeli, Jawdat Ibrahim, from Abu Ghosh. So, yeah, there is a lot of really terrible stuff happening in Israel, or in territory that Israel controls. (A lot of terrible stuff has happened TO Israel as well). But one CAN look at food as one of the areas where people can safely encounter the other, learn to appreciate each other's culture, and develop a kind of shared pride. I assume that things can be pretty touchy too when talking about BBQ, southern food, and soul food (dig deep enough, and injustice is present ANYWHERE we are talking about power and appropriation, resources and consumption). But I would also guess that southern whites and African-Americans find ways to somehow set the issues (real, serious issues) aside and just enjoy the food. Well, so do a lot of Israeli Jews and Arabs/Palestinians.
A few possibilities assuming your yeast is fine. 1) your pizzas may be too large and the dough is stretched too thin. 2) you may be putting too much sauce and topping on too much of the pizza. 3) you may be overworking the dough when you are making the round, and pushing the CO2 pockets out of the dough. I use the same Lahey dough recipe that rises ferments about 10 hours. I make 2 pies with it. Or 3 large frying pan size if I am doing skillet-broiler method. After balling the dough, I let the balls sit covered another 30-45 minutes before making the rounds. I gently flatten the ball with my fingers before stretching it out. I leave an extra thick rim around the outside and keep that part unsauced and untopped. The pizzas come out NY slice thin in the middle with a puffy end crust. Skillet is about 520 F. Stone and oven about the same.
Would you recommend the tenderizer to someone who already has a jaccard?
Do they blend the chickpeas hot, or do they cool them first? I've been told that it is best to do it cold because: a) heat can harm the flavor of the tehina, and b) because it emulsifies better when cold.
Erin - did you connect with other Serious Eaters while you were in Israel? I've been hoping to get some kind of group going here.
David - if you think you could benefit from a "shiduch" with any SF Jewish institutions, let me know. The Jewish Community HS, the Mission Minyan, 12 Tribes Catering, whatever. Have you connected with Noah Alper, the founder of Noah's Bagels? He lives in Berkeley.
This recipe sounds like pho ga. What do you think about roasting the ginger and onion? I've always wondered how important that step is to the final product.
This recipe sounds like pho ga. What do you think about roasting the ginger and onion? I've always wondered how important that step is to the final product.
This recipe sounds like pho ga. What do you think about roasting the ginger and onion? I've always wondered how important that step is to the final product.
Kenji, it sounds like you like these results as much, if not more, than the skillet-broiler method. I always thought that putting sauce on cooked dough, rather than raw, would cause the texture of the dough-sauce interface to be "off." Why isn't this the case?
The impact of frozen vs. fresh beef - and what to do if you only have frozen.
The impact of different starting temperatures of the beef when forming the patties and when cooking. (e.g. I have a friend who thinks you can get a better crust by starting with a cold burger, since you can cook the outside longer without overcooking the inside).
Things besides salt you can put on the outside of the burger to increase crust formation - particularly on a gas grill vs. a charcoal grill or a griddle.
Burger re-heating.
Keep burgers warm when serving lots of people, without steam compromising the crust.
Boosting umami without turning burger into meatloaf.
Sorry to hear that you had the same issue with the stone. I got a mail-order custom-cut kiln shelf to use as my stone. I made some great pies on it. But the skillet-broiler method (coupled with the 3-day cold-rise) has changed everything for me, and the stone is just gathering dust. It just means slightly smaller pies, but they get cooked much faster. I've actually been thinking about taking the skillet-broiler method on the road for some kind of outdoor-pizza-party-catering side business. My idea is to have someone custom build me a rig with 3 high-BTU gas burners on the bottom, with matching gas broilers up top, each with its own on-off knob. No enclosure for the whole thing. Just connect it to a tank of gas, ignite, and go. That, plus about 6 cast-iron pans, and I figure that I could turn out a pie steadily every 3-4 minutes once I got the hang of it. Your posts here have provided further inspiration to move forward with my idea.
I've been planning on doing a pizza progression party here with a local food blogger. She'll source the cheeses and toppings and I will take care of the rest. I am concerned, however, about the stone. After baking one pie, the stone isn't hot enough to blister the crust of the next pie if I put it in immediately after taking the previous one out. For that reason, I was thinking of using the skillet-broiler method instead, but with 2 skillets. A side benefit, of course, is not having to pre-heat the oven/stone. Adam - was your stone able to stay at max temp doing all of those pizzas back-to-back?
Kenji, I love hamburgers and I love melty sharp cheese, but due to Jewish dietary restrictions, I no longer bring the two together. I remember the magic of the combination, however, and feel like something is missing from my burgers. Any suggestions about what you would use in place of cheese in an ultimate burger?
I am trying to compile a list of what might be called "Classic" and "New Classic" pizza combinations (sauce, cheese(s), toppings) Can you please help me out?
If you've had something really great at Paulie Gee's, Pizzeria Bianco, Motorino, Mozza, etc. please speak up.
But no meat combinations. Stricly vegetarian.
Thank you!
I've started putting my 2 cordierite kiln shelf pizza stones right on the burners of my Weber Genesis gas grills. On high, the stones can reach over 700 degrees, which incinerates the bottom of the pizza in under a minute. Putting the burners on medium-low keeps the stones between 550 and 580. I place the pizza on one stone, and then place the other stone about 4 inches above it (resting on the ledge where the grill grates would have gone), essentially sandwiching the pizza between the two stones. But while the cheese melts, the crust on top is not browned at all when the bottom is perfectly leopard-spotted and crisp. I've been finishing them under the broiler of my oven for about 60-90 seconds. What do I need to do to synchronize the cooking of the top and bottom? I really don't want to lower the heat of the stones - the pizzas cook in about 4 minutes with great oven spring and I don't want to lose that. Thanks.
I made two batches of CI Pizza Dough in my food processor - one with a 00 pizza/focaccia flour (10 grams protein per 100 grams of flour) and one with bread flour (11 grams per 100). They have been in the refrigerator for the same amount of time (about 66 hours), but the one made with the pizza/focaccia flour has risen almost 50% more and has medium-sized bubbles, some of which have popped. Can anyone explain whether it is the flour that has caused this? And is there an adjustment I should make to the CI recipe if I use the 00 pizza/focaccia flour instead of the bread flour it calls for?
Is there any way for Serious Eats readers living in Israel to identify themselves to each other? We moved to Israel just recently and would love to connect with others who share our passion for cooking and eating well.
B7gourmand hasn't favorited a post yet.
Can anyone explain how the Lahey No-Knead dough compares to these three dough recipes? See question above for more specifics about why I mean. Thanks.