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I think AlterJ and Cooks Illustrated are on the money here. That sounds great to me. Perfectly cooked turkey, with turkey-enhanced stuffing. Win-win and second helpings please. Nice.

I like stuffing the bird because, in my pseudoscientific experience, it seems to keep the breast from cooking as fast... seems like the bird cooks more evenly when stuffed. But, it's true... when you take it out, let's just say it's not something you'd want to serve to someone with a compromised immune system. So... stuff the bird, and make enough to bake some outside the bird as well. Eat the dressing while the stuffing comes up to the proper temp in the oven. Satisfy both the dressing AND the stuffing (with yummy drippings) devotees.

Welcome back Gator Pam!

I think AB changed his opinion on stuffing. I caught an episode on Sat at the gym (no cable at home) where he was in fact stuffing a turkey with challah stuffing... which was pre-stuffed in a cloth bag.

I like the "in the bird, moister" version of stuffing.
The solution that works best for me is to make my "stuffing" in the crockpot.

Follow nearly any recipe for stuffing/dressing.
Put it in to a lightly greased crockpot.
Cook on High for 45 minutes, then turn to Low.

The "newer" crockpots that cook hotter in temperature will have the stuffing ready to serve after four hours on Low. If you then turn the setting on to Warm and sit at the table a couple of hours later, those who like the part of the stuffing that tends to crisp up outside the bird will have a ring of crispier stuffing next to the wall of the crockpot. Those who prefer the moister stuffing that tends to be typical of being made inside the bird will have the rest.

In my older heirloom crockpots, the stuffing can go as long as seven to eight hours on Low after the first 45 minutes just fine. You have to know your crockpots.

I own five crockpots of varying size, and they get a good work out at the holidays. With the bird for Thanksgiving, and the standing rib roast in December, oven space is at a premium since I do not have double ovens. I use my crockpots for everything, from soup, through sides, to dessert. Having electrical outlets and sturdy tables on the patio to set them up on also frees up counter space.

Consider the crockpot option! You'll never do a holiday meal without again. ;)

Oh...and "hi" everybody.
It's the holidays.
Time to return.
I'll try not to make a name for myself as a spammer again.
*blush*

"Food safety? C'est la vie..."

Don't you mean C'est la guerre? (Or as Bugs Bunny says it: "cest la gwerry.") Let's face it, there's an ongoing battle against dry turkey and sick stuffing.

The probes that come with supermarket turkeys are set to pop up at 185 F, which is 20 degrees hotter than the government recommended 165 F for poultry. This is the reason most Americans have dry turkey on Thanksgiving. 165 F is recommended as more of a precaution for pregant women, young children and senior citizens, or those more susceptible to foodborne illness; these are the same people who shouldn't eat sushi. At 165 F, it ensures that absolutely no bacteria is present. However, any good piece of poultry you have ever had at a restaurant was NOT cooked to 165 F. At 140-145 F, the meat should be perfectly cooked and perfectly safe for the average healthy person. The temperature should be gauged between the leg and thigh area of the bird, but be careful not to hit the bone or the temperature will skyrocket. When the juices are clear, the bird is cooked. In truth, all bacteria should be annihilated at 135 F, but stick to 165 F if you have a more sensitive immune system.

WWPD
Sort of like WWJD, but it's What Would Pilgrims Do?? They'd stuff that bird, they'd also stuff under and around the bird. Who has room for 2 roasting pans in their ovens?? Not the pilgrims!

Just to throw this into the mix: for people who don't eat turkey but like stuffing, it is nice to have the stuffing as 'dressing.'

People who do eat the turkey can always take dressing, put their cut turkey slices on top of the mix, and then let the juices seep down and pour gravy on it, if desired. Those who do not eat turkey can take the stuffing and mix it with their veggies for juice. Then, everyone is happy. And if your turkey is so dry no juice dribbles into the stuffing, then you understand why I don't like turkey :)

Turkey is absolutely not overcooked at 165. In fact, 170 in the breast is more palatable than 165. About 180 is best for the fattier dark meat.

Remove from the oven at 161 in the breast for perfect post-oven heat rise in a decent-sized bird.

I always stuff my turkey with sausage, sage, and onion stuffing. I have for over 30 years and am still alive and gobbling. There is nothing better than the delicious moist stuffing infused with the juices, and there is never a scrap leftover. I line the cavity of the turkey with cheesecloth, stuff the turkey and remove the stuffing while the turkey rests and put in the oven to keep warm. My favorite is the ball of stuffing from the neck flap. Anyone who touches that will suffer slow death. Crispy on the outside, tender on the inside, it is my gift for all my labor.

I really appreciate AB's concern for food safety. Nobody thinks they've ever sickened anyone, but the millions of people that get foodborne illnesses every year suggest otherwise. Around 80% of chickens sampled have campyloacter and/or salmonella. I'd bet the numbers are pretty high for turkey, too. Use a thermometer, like AB suggests, and make sure all parts of the bird and/or stuffing reach 165 for safety.

I just fry the turkey and make the dressing on the side...no debate in our house.