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@ScottWiener: Thanks for doing the research and presenting the facts. I'm impressed (as usual) with your knowledge of pizza stuff, Scott.

@Rolando: All your base are belong to us.

Sorry... I just couldn't help it.

Here's the problem guys. Speed and quality. You can give people a slice held over 140 and it would taste like carboard. You could give someone a slice out of a refrigerator (under 41) and it would take a few minutes to heat up. I understand the items that are dangerous...especially those that the Dept of Health Focus on (chicken, pork, etc.) But here is my problem: I used to work in 3 and 4 star restaurants in NY and we used to have to sell or cheese board at room temperature because that's where cheese tastes best. Why is that ok? I passed the same exact test they did. They know and I know that those cheeses are "dangerous" according to the dept of health yet DEMAND that they be served at that temperature. Most meat is served rare (130) to MR (140) which puts it at the high end of that limit but definitely within it. Crudos and tartars are absolute violations. The inspectors allow them leeway because they are high end restaurants. There has to be equity in it. If you want to judge each place individually, that, I think is fair. But to say this is a rule and its absolute and then not apply it to everyone.....thats just not right. The market sets the standard. If people get sick on your food I guarantee they wont come back. Thats why high end restaurants are left alone. People go there and they feel they know better and NEVER change items in those places. Could I have the beef tartar, but cook it to 140 because I'm worried about food borne illness? Sorry. Thanks for playing. Just be fair. Test the food how its served not how its stored. Thats whats fair. But thats not the law. And the reason I E-Mailed Adam was to try to find a way to comply and not sacrifice quality. I was looking for advice from someone I respected and followed. What I got was a forum on God know's what tangent people wanted to talk about. I know how to comply, I just don't want to sacrfice quality to get there. I'm still looking for that advice.....

And as for Big B coming on here and going on Eater I've got news for you. I've been to Artichoke. I like them. They're nice guys and the pizza is decent. Don't compare the two. You look foolish. And I've seen their kitchen. It's not clean. I would love a fair contest with them. Anytime. Absolutely. We don't serve the same kind of pizza. Stop making a comparison. It doesn't make sense and you just look like a schill. And, to my knowledge, we've never been in the NY Times but if you have the article and could send it to me that would be great. :D

@petes: You could actually understand that?

If the cheese and the meat are the problems, couldn't you just add that nasty pre-grated mozz and the meat toppings right before reheating?

I know it would take precious additional seconds, and maybe the use of some triangular stencil, but it might save the endangered slice.

to you all worked or started to work in restaurants that should have been renamed Pigstall, the Milkcrates in the Walk in was full of Mold, i mean overgrown with it, the freezer door could not be closed so U all now what happens to the cold air. right. food that was so old it was ready to walk out the door so to be first i left. But the glorified SOuth americans no english speaking kept on serving they know it all.
so that was in many places the same.. so I do not know where the Inspectors are.
and of course t recognize dirt Mold Dog shite or Mice and any other fried or a life critters and the completely filthy floors of establishments. for all of that ONE serious Person can not be hired You must have a Bio chemical Degree from a University,to bne an Inspector
sorry to say My great grandfather in Switzerland never saw a school for more then 4 years but he still kept his Butt clean and alll else.
to collect and see does things one may not need a University degree ,,,,, but does that do the work in the Lab's yes sure......
So like in every industry there are some over the top employees.just out off school, I say take a camera and have documentation...
RegaRDING>>>>> the John Liu aspect and so on....
why is it that even the newer Food sales places Fish can Lay on top of crushed ICE while the TOP LAYERS are exposed to summer heat at 80 F++ then in the Winter they have Heat fans duct work systems blowing hot air, still in 60 F does there not grow Bacteria
And to toped it all off with NO SNEEZE GuaRD so People speak over the food >> the Butcher is sneezing and keeps on handling food, wraps the food in the plastic and hands it over to the customer AHAHAH
cross contamination ,
Fish mangers in the NYC china town do not keep side walks clean a half a gallon of bleach would help but no the rest of the City Tax payers have to put up with it,ohohohoh now I am a person that does not like this or that type of foreingner no I do not like that we have differrent measurements with in the same City line,
But with a glass of Soya sauce the Bacterie will be killed off.
I lifed in China and I know what they do so keep it in China here I was thinking we advanced a bit ????
Reg. John Liu it is all ways and not only him that swing the Discrimination Flag at every occassion as to kill the dialoge, why are the Mainstreet to Douglaston NOW filled with establishments written in big letter and not in english mind you when you enter they all do not speak english it takes me some times five Minutes to brake the ICE, and just so u know most of them spek a pretty good english,, so who is NOW discriminating..To them all write in english what u businesse is about
and invite the American idiots - why do u open a place sell to all of us and do not just scream we are the same when u do not live by that>?
Rolando

I met a DOH employee the other day and passed this post his way. His response:

"The Health Code says thou shalt not
store potentially hazardous food between the 41 and 140 degrees ("the
danger zone"), because in this range any nasty bugs can grow at a
truly alarming rate. What makes a food potentially hazardous? If a
food has too high a moisture content, too low a salt content, or an
acidity level that is too low, then it is potentially hazardous. In
other words, if the food is really dry, nothing can grow on it, or at
least not fast enough for the Health Department to worry about. Why is
it OK to store some slices at room temperature? There is enough salt
in the cheese and enough acidity in the tomato sauce to keep anything
from growing. Slices with peperoni? That's a cured meat, so it's not
potentially hazardous. However, cooked chicken is another matter. And,
if you think of it outside the context of pizza, you'd probably think,
yeah, I wouldn't want to eat a piece of chicken that has been left out
at room temperature for two hours. Would you definitely get sick? No,
but you might, and someone with a weak immune system could be in
trouble.

So what about those "for display only" signs? Pizzeria owners say that
people will only order a slice with toppings if they see the slices on
display. The theory is that the patron will see the slice with chicken
on it, order a slice with chicken, and magically a slice with chicken
that has been made from scratch or stored at a safe temperature is
what will be served. But not the slice that the patron sees on the
counter under the sign "for display only", which in theory must be
discarded. In reality, what is on display was probably left over from
the lunch or dinner rush, and the pizza man is hoping to sell it
without the DOH noticing. Since restaurants get inspected about once a
year, it's a pretty safe bet.

Do some rookie inspectors screw this one up? Sure. But do most pizza
makers know about this rule? Yes, or at least they should. Is it fair
to ding them for it? There are plenty of injustices in the system, but
this one of the less disturbing ones, in my opinion."

"When I was young and got drunk and stoned"

@redstone: so I take it that means last night :)

My local pizza man, Exclusive Pizza on 181, was re-inspected. He originally failed due to some crazy violation in the basement of the building next door (actually my building.) Somehow because his services are connected to the basement, a violation in the next door building became points on his inspection. (?)

THEN, when they came back to re-inspect, he passed but got dinged on the chicken rolls, slices, etc., he's got under the glass counter. It's nuts.

I'd like everyone to recall a couple of years ago the vendors in Chinatown getting an exemption on hanging room temperature meats in their windows for "cultural sensitivity" reasons. Councilman Lui, a true dumbass and a foul example of what's wrong with our elective officials, lead the charge to get health inspectors to back off on the room temp pigs hanging all over the place.

Why doesn't a slice of pizza fall under the same cultural exception?

I actually think unwritten culture-based enforcement exceptions to health laws (or any laws) are bullshit, but if you give one, how can you not give others?

There's so much salt in pizza between the cheese, sauce, and meat (if there's a meat topping), nothing could possibly be in there. Seriously, would there also be a reasonable amount of time they could be safely in the display case, say a couple hours? the good ones go quickly anyway.

um...ok.

nope. i'm saying that i would only be able to get a slice at the places in my brooklyn neighborhood during peak hours (maybe 12-2pm and 6-7pm, and definitely not late at night). that would suck.

MePa? Really? Am I the last person to find out that every neighborhood now has a two syllable nickname?

This is from Gaslight in MePa. Close them down, but leave the good pizzeria's alone.