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@dbcurrie: I think they meant processed as in containing synthetic ingredients ... there are lots of packaged items in the grocery store (tv dinners, cereal, cheeses, yogurts, crackers, etc.) that are labeled organic, but you have to give the makers of these things credit: take a look at their ingredient list, and you will not find things like HFCS, Caramel Coloring, Red 40, or any other mysterious chemical (At least on the things I've seen ... I know HFCS and many other things are derived from corn, and as far as I know, that is their primary ingredient .... does anyone know if HFCS counts as organic if its made from organic corn?) Not to say that HFCS is bad in and of itself .... that's a whole different can of worms!

@Sienna: So true ... Living around the edge of the Portland area where city meets farm, I happen to know several farmers and growers. The added weight of having to carry the 'organic' label comes with a hefty price, and some just don't do it because of the added costs and governmental intrusion, even though their food is 'un-officially' grown organically.

In this sense, I must agree with you ... there is a large marketing factor involved in buying 'organic', which is why I say organic is becoming a 'brand' more than anything. When you buy something labeled organic, you can be guaranteed that it meets the necessary requirements of the organic brand - Just as when you buy a Pepsi or a Coke product, you can rest assured that it is going to be just as good as every other Pepsi or Coke, and always will be. This makes the organic brand a 'safe choice' for those interested in buying only organic, and large companies have become very efficient at getting people hooked on brands. But who is to say that non-organic produce could be just as good as organic, even if it doesn't carry that label? As a self-described organic buyer, I have to thank you for reminding me of this point.

I think the best solution is for consumers to know as much as possible about where their food comes from. Its been kicked around a few times in govt. about adding labels indicating where a particular cut of meat or bushel of apples comes from right on the packaging. Produce already does this ... doing this for meat would just make as much logical sense as well. Those people that really care about where their meat comes from can choose one that comes from a farm they like ... these people can research that farm, find out how they raise the animals, ask the farmer questions about their methods ... And those that don't care ... well, then the extra information won't mean much, but at least it will be there. Anything that gives the consumer additional information about origin of production would give consumers more confidence (if they so choose to use the added knowledge) about buying their food ... 'organic'-label or not.

I agree with 99% of the posts here: taxing BMI is stupid. Even the analogy the poster from the Economist is bad: products are bad, so we tax the product. The poster mistakenly tries to apply this same logic to BMI, not realizing that BMI is not a product one can buy, but a result of a product.

a junk food tax is interesting, although I think would be too hard to pin down on semantic definitions. I think we all here might agree that soda is pretty much empty calories and should be taxed as junk food, but I'll bet Coke would disagree. They might even point at their competitors products ... "Why aren't Lay's Potato Chips being taxed as junk food? They are worse for you!" (Lay's is partnered with Pepsi) ... and the potato chip makers might point at the candy makers, who might point at the donut makers, who cry fowl at the cake and pastry makers ... imagine the carnage of a hundred bakers holding hands as they march on congress, throwing eggs in protest (The police, when they show up to break up fights, promptly ruin the eggs by pouring ketchup on them ...).

Needless to say, the whole situation gets out of hand, and is a little crazy.

It sounds like congress is trying to squeeze a little cash from overweight people. A better idea:

Regulate the price of gasoline and raise it to $8 / Gallon.

People would seriously re-consider their modes of transportation and getting around. More people would walk and bike to work and to the store, turning them into healthier people. In addition, as demand for oil drops, we would greatly reduce the amount of foreign oil we import, dropping our national debt; and we would greatly reduce the amount of green-house gases cars emit in the air.

Three national problems - obesity, economic debt, and the environment - solved with one little solution.

You're welcome :D

(This post brought to you by the makers of humor and sarcasm)

I just wanted to split this into two seperate replies, so I don't ramble :)

@pavlov: I agree, a lot of commercial companies and corporations are jumping on the organic bandwagon, turning organic not so much into a product, but a brand. This is entirely not what organic farming principals were founded upon, and it really amplifies the things that are not so good about organic farming and organic foods. Many commercial companies (Stony Field and Earthbound Farms come to mind) are using the same farming techniques they used for conventional - mass producing food using factory methods - only instead of conventional, they slap on the organic label, doing 'just-enough' to earn that badge. Even though this is an improvement upon the older industrial farming methods, especially in regards to the environment, but the same idea of mass production is still there ... industrial-organic. The term organic as it applies to farmers-market produce, and organic as it applies to TV-dinners or cereal blends are, in my opinion, not the same term.

I have had curry before, but not Indian curry, necessarily ... just Thai curry.

Some of the best Indian food I have had was at a potluck at my work. I work at a large tech company in Beaverton and there are a lot of Indian workers in our office. Anyways, we had a potluck at our work around Chistmas holiday, and some of the food that was brought in were home-made Indian dishes that they wanted to share with us. They were all very good, although I could not pronounce any of the names. There was a dish with red lentils, some kind of puri or samosa I think (Fried bread) with a green sauce, some kind of chicken ... can't even remember anything close to a name ... but it was good!

Just to keep things going ...

I found out a little more about seitan making / purchasing ... apparently, seitan (or sub-forms of it) are used as ingredients in many commercial vegetarian offerings; it is used in many of the products by Morningstar, and it is the principal ingredient of "Tofurky" (Funny, because I thought tofurky would be tofu-based). At least now I can be a little more comfortable with the idea of "wheat meat" ... a couple years ago, as an experiment, my wife and I tried one of these tofurky loaves (terrines is a more accurate description for them), and I really, really enjoyed it! I was skeptical at first, but that's probably why many people don't buy them ... not because they taste bad.

I actually like tempeh a little bit more than tofu (well, at least the tofu I make ... which isn't all that great). It is a lot denser, and it has a pleasant 'nutty' flavor (nutty would be the best way to describe it). Whole Foods has 8 oz. tempeh packs that are pretty inexpensive ... I think for around $2, and that can easily feed 2 people when mixed with something like noodles or veggies. They are unflavored, which is great because I can season it any way that I want to. The seasoned or marinated tofus and tempehs in the health-food sections of grocery stores look tasty, but unfortunately can sometimes cost as much as a New-York strip steak!

I don't think I've ever had seitan, but it sounds pretty interesting, especially since it appears to be made from gluten / wheat flour (which, for some reason, I always have on hand), and since I can make it at home without any special equipment ... I'll have to buy a bag of wheat flour and give it a go!

@joyyy: Falafal is great! Thanks for reminding me!

Funny story about falafal ... the first time I made this was actually when I was teaching someone (a college friend, who was also my roommate for that year) how to cook. I knew how to cook well, but not many vegetarian dishes; she didn't know how to cook, but was a vegetarian (Sort of ... not a very orthodox one, at least. I remember seeing her, after a few drinks, wolf down a sausage bratwurst at a downtown alley vendor cart after midnight ...). So I agreed to teach her to cook, while I would learn new vegetarian things to cook, and falafal was the first thing we made. It turned out great! I thought we were going to have a kind of tradition going, but after the following week's "gnochhi-disaster mess" ... we kind of dropped it.

I'm going to cheat: I have two favorites! 1) The Carl's Jr. Double Six-dollar western burger is AMAZING (even more amazing that it falls into the "fast-food" category!) Tangy BBQ sauce, melty cheese, bacon, and onion rings make this oh-so good. But, no surprise, it is not the healthiest option...

Which leads me to 2): A kobe-beef burger topped with melted gruyere cheese, caramelized onions and arugula, on a toasted garlic bun ... I had this at a Spanish-American restaurant last week, and made me re-think that burgers can be "fancy food" as well as delicious!

Beaverton Farmer's Market in Beaverton, OR ... My favorite vendor (Sorry, I forget the name!) are the guys that sell the home-made, gourmet German Sausages ... frozen to take home, or grilled!

Grilled Steak and empanadas

Its been a while since this thread has been refreshed, but I would just like to add my two cents...

While reading many of the previous posts to the OP, I noticed that people were comparing Whole Foods to other grocers like Wegermans, TJ's, Fresh Market, etc. IMO, these are all "high-end" grocery stores: Grocers that offer high-quality artisan products and an aesthetically pleasing decor. In a nutshell, they are selling more than just groceries: they are selling a shopping experience. The classical music, the distinct aromas in the store, helpful staff, samples.... In business, this is called "branding". I think we all recognize, know (and love!) the Whole Foods brand, just as by comparison we know and recognize the Wal-mart brand as well.

But when you compare two high-end grocer's to one another, I would say its more of an apples-to-apples comparison than, say, comparing any one of those high-end grocers to a Safeway or Albertson's. Prices between grocers like New Seasons, Wild Oats, or Whole Foods are all going to be roughly the same because they all are targeting the same demographic with similar brands.

I think the reason some people are offended by Whole Foods is that they already are used to the prices at their "go-to" grocers. Like many people have said, items (even "staple" items) are typically 2-3 times more expensive than other grocers, and some people have a hard time justifying why anyone in their right mind would want to spend that much money on, for example, pasta or flour .... even if their is a good reason for it (organic, free-trade, sustainable, local, etc.).

Now, I love places like Whole Foods: Like many have said, they offer high-quality products, many of them organic, and a lot of stuff that I just can't find anywhere else. (I have recently read "The Omnivore's Dilemma", and it has really gotten me thinking about the health benefits of buying organic .... There really is a big difference, and not just in taste!). I was never a big "cheese" person, but I am always impressed by their charcuterie, and beer and wine selection.

The problem is that I just can't afford to do all of my shopping there. I would love if I could buy all of my groceries there, because I do see the difference in quality that these kinds of stores offer. But when balancing the checkbook with things I need to buy and things I would like to buy, I wish I could say groceries were a higher priority for me. When I grocery shop, I still tend to buy mostly staples: bulk items, produce, meat, etc. I try and not to buy any processed or frozen foods, limited canned or packaged items .... this has helped me stretch my food budget. But when even staple items are usually 3-4 times more expensive than my local WinCo, its hard to justify the expenses, ESPECIALLY now that "times are tough" (or so I'm told by the news everyday).