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Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@Rocquie I agree; let us all stop saying 'foodie'. When people call me a foodie, it sounds condescending. They treat people that fall in that category sound like childish hobbyists.
With @sailordave's analogy, I think it would be better put as "I love music, but I don't listen to anything with a brass section. I can't/don't enjoy trumpets, tubas, trombones, saxophones, etc."
The Term 'Housemade' Is the New 'Homemade'
What is wrong with just the term "House"? It eludes to being made in-house and a choice of the house. House salad, bread, dressing, et cetera.
The 'New York Times' Is Not a Fan of Ted Allen's New Food Network Show
Other than most of the show's "tests" have already been done on Mythbusters or Good Eats, it has promise. If they can get the food techs to quit over acting and get a decent script, it could turn out well.
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Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@jwalz Sorry, I forgot that sax is a woodwind. The vegans can be no brass or woodwinds. So no clarinets either.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@Rocquie I agree; let us all stop saying 'foodie'. When people call me a foodie, it sounds condescending. They treat people that fall in that category sound like childish hobbyists.
With @sailordave's analogy, I think it would be better put as "I love music, but I don't listen to anything with a brass section. I can't/don't enjoy trumpets, tubas, trombones, saxophones, etc."
The Term 'Housemade' Is the New 'Homemade'
What is wrong with just the term "House"? It eludes to being made in-house and a choice of the house. House salad, bread, dressing, et cetera.
The 'New York Times' Is Not a Fan of Ted Allen's New Food Network Show
Other than most of the show's "tests" have already been done on Mythbusters or Good Eats, it has promise. If they can get the food techs to quit over acting and get a decent script, it could turn out well.
Virulent Anti-Vegans Troll 'New York Times' City Blog Post
I once had a vegan friend who would always try to trick us with tofu and food coloring. "But it was for our own health." I still can't eat tofu.
It is like a Evangelical Christian trying to shove their beliefs down your throat. I like my beliefs and eating dead cow; let's leave it at that.
Cook the Book: 'Think Like a Chef'
I keep a gas grill right outside my back door to grill anything that I can. Hooray for covered porches in the winter!
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
You can certainly be a foodie and vegan. While we may have some dietary restrictions compared to the average eater, we are also much more aware of what we eat than the average eater. Being vegan makes you aware of and appreciate your food just that much more.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
I became a vegan at sixty-one (I'm 61 and 1/2) out of sheer curiosity and a desire to reduce my negative impact on Mother Earth. I wanted to know what my childrens' friends were experiencing, what was piquing the interest of some respected authors and artists, what the Skinny Bitches of the world knew that I didn't, and, most of all, how one could cook well on a vegan regime. I've been having a ball with it! There are some anxious moments in the kitchen, since almost every meal is a wild experiment. And, I'll admit, traveling can be a hungry experience. Nevertheless, I'm not interested in going back to my carnivorous ways.
It's interesting to encounter the assumptions my acquaintances make about veganism: they seem to assume that I've got a moral stake in it somewhere, that I've gone uber-Buddhist, that I feel superior. They have trouble understanding that I might simply be exercising an option. They say it is good for the functioning and longevity of our cognition to learn new things in our senior years; since I spend a lot of time in the kitchen, I wondered how I might turn that time into a real challenge. I think I've found a way I can feel good about.
I'm blogging about it with what passes for dry Southern wit and shots at seasoned wisdom at http://www.maturelandscaping.com. Am I the only senior nouveau vegan extant?
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
Eating no animal products is as silly as eating only animal products.
Religious reasons? Bullshit.
Moral reasons? Fuck you.
Health reasons? See Japan.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
I've been following Mark Bittman "vegan after dinnertime" idea for three months, now, and I've discovered a whole new world of possibilities. If anything, it has expanded rather than shrinked my cooking landscape. Having said that, I have found that vegetarian recipes in cookbooks or magazines, are, very often, based on cheese and eggs, which make them vegan unfriendly (as if editors thought all non meat eaters were created equal). While these I'm considering on going vegetarian, I certainly would miss the traditions (both family and cultural ones) that sorround the foods I've grown up to love.
Also, I can't avoid mentioning that I have several vegetarian friends and acquaintances. As for moral choices, I know a couple of them who have cheated on their respective partners, so I would say that eating or not eating meat definitely is not the only moral standard and should not be viewed as such.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@ankk1 As a Malaysian, I can tell you that Malaysian cuisine (from various ethnic groups in Msia) don't tend to be very vegan friendly.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@peekpoke - As far as the "sinners" thing goes, I sincerely doubt any of the vegans or vegetarians attracted to sites like SE go into hysterics at the sight of hamburger. I haven't yet been elected vegan spokesperson, but I can't say that I've ever been offended by talk of bacon (though the fad annoys me a bit, as does the cupcake fad, especially when we get into bacon cupcakes, but that's a different issue) or butter or cheddar or any of the things I don't eat. I also am fine when dining companions order cheeseburgers, or when my roommates fill the fridge with milk and meat. I am much more horrified when I see someone using pancake syrup instead of Grade B maple!
If I'm offended by anything, it's being called (by proxy) tasteless, a douche bag, an idiot or a hypocrite in threads where vegan food comes up.
I'm not asking that vegan food be celebrated to the detriment of nonvegan food (nonvegan food is quite tasty - I didn't stop eating cheese because I dislike it), simply that ALL delicious food deserves equal celebration, and that vegan recipes shouldn't immediately be dismissed as somehow lesser than any and all recipes containing meat, eggs or dairy.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@TimMoore are 75% of clothes created in sweatshops? That would require a sweatshop be defined as basically anything outside a western country.
Anyway, the "misogynistic or homophobic" line points out a clear difference between choices of taste versus morals. If 75% of all music is classified as "misogynistic or homophobic", would those who listen to that 75% be considered misogynistic or homophobic by those who abstain?
People who don't like cauliflower don't consider those who eat it "sinners", even the idea is silly.
Do vegans who chose to eat vegan as a moral choice consider non-vegans "sinners"? Based on the lines about being offended by the constant talk about bacon and meat, how could they not be?
Then how do you run a "foodie" site where 75% (or more) of your content actually "offends" some of your readers by being so gleefully celebrative? Do you tone down your glee in showing a whole pig being roasted, or a bloody rare burger?
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
Maybe a better analogy: can you call yourself a fashion lover if you refuse to buy clothes made in sweat shops?
That might be just as controversial a question, though.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@peekpoke fair point, but only proves that my analogy isn't better than any of the other ones
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@TimMoore: Would you claim that someone can declare themselves to be a music lover if they classify 75% of the worlds music as misogynistic or homophobic? Perhaps, but one with a narrow scope.
(keep in mind key ingredients like fish sauce and, dashi, and cooking styles like Chinese restaurant wok cooking where EVERYTHING touches meat products, or the scarcity of vegan desserts before you jump on my 75% number)
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
The music analogies are off-base. Veganism isn't a personal preference or arbitrary aversion. It's a decision based on an ethical judgement.
Would you claim that someone can't declare themselves to be a music lover if they choose to avoid buying or listening to music with misogynistic or homophobic lyrics?
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
As long as you pay the tab, I could care less what you order.
It's all money to me.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
To me, this seems pretty obvious: there are jerks on both sides, but on the whole, there's no reason to be confrontational about what you eat.
A little personal perspective: I'm the only vegetarian in my family, have been for 12 years now. My parents, initially wary of my choice, recently told me it completely opened up their horizons, food-wise -- they now eat quinoa, millet, all sorts of beans and greens on a daily basis, and even give me grief for not going organic often enough.
I'm the least picky eater in my group of friends (all meat-eaters). Basically, unless it was part of an animal, I'll eat it. Unlike most people, I love all fruits and veggies, even the most obscure. Meanwhile, my non-veg BF only eats about a dozen variations on pizza, potatoes, chicken, and burgers, and it takes major effort to get him to branch out.
So please, enough with the "finicky vegetarian/vegan" stereotypes.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@BBQdude - I don't know, vegan food is very diverse and really the only thing hard to replicate is straight up meat. If you want a steak on a plate then vegetarianism can't really replicate that. Although I have made some seitan ribs that were pretty good and I used in a sandwich. I never ate much egg or cooked with much egg but really the only thing I can think of that can't be replicated (or is difficult to do so) is meringue which is something I never liked anyway.
There was also an interesting blog not too long ago that recreated Anthony Bourdain recipes but with all vegan ingredients. The people that did the recipes were quite creative, much more than myself. I don't know much about food science but in order to replicate textures, tastes, etc, it does take quite a bit of knowledge and I salute those that do it.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@dbcurrie--it was a rhetorical question, flipping it around. Besides which, health issues or food preparation jobs have no bearing on this debate.
p.s. I'm a unicorn!
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
sailordave,
I think your analogy is close, but not quite right. I think being a vegetarian foodie is like being a music lover who doesn't like stringed instruments. Any of 'em. Being a foodie vegan is like being a music lover, but not liking stringed instruments, wind instruments, brass instruments or percussion. I guess a cappella music is nice... but it's hard to understand a music lover who dismisses all those other wonderful sounds.
5 days a week we eat a basically vegetarian diet. But there's simply no way I could give up the magical food-binding, sauce-emulsifying power of the egg. To those of us who will eat basically anything, veganism can seem a little empty. And extremely hard to understand.
But good luck to you vegan foodies! I may not understand you, but I wish you all well!
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
Foodie = someone who loves food. Food = something you eat. Pretty broad. I think you are a foodie if you are passionate about food. Personally, I eat everything. My diet is 90% plant based, thanks to my CSA. All of my veg and meats are organic and sustainablly raised. That's my beef with beef, I care about how the food got to my table. If it was mass produced damaging the envoirnment, the people harvesting it, the animals, the communities, I don't want to have anything to do with it. Unfortunately, that means eating less meat for me. If I want meat I have to make a 90 minute (round trip) drive to Whole Foods. That dosen't happen very often! But if I'm out with friends I would rather enjoy them and the enviornment than stand out and make the situation uncomfortable. It's only 1 meal, I feel good about my food choices so 1 meal isn't going to make me lose any sleep.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@lyricanji, there's no set-in-stone definition of foodie. If someone ate nothing but rocks and vitamin pills, they could call themselves a foodie if they wanted to.
And seriously, if someone ate only animal products, chances are they'd end up with health issues that would make the foodie definition the least of their worries.
What about someone who has gluten intolerance and doesn't eat wheat, but works at a bakery and makes and sells beautiful breads and cakes? Is that person not a baker?
Some people call themselves foodies because they eat at restaurants and enjoy the food. Some people call themselves foodies because they cook wonderful things. Some people lack the means to eat out or to cook fantastic things, but they consider themselves foodies because they read food magazines and study ethnic cuisines.
And some people eat and cook and read and enjoy, but hate the foodie label. What difference does it make what other people eat or how they label themselves?
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
Can someone be considered a foodie who would never, never, never eat any kind of vegetation for any reason? If it didn't walk, swim, or slither it's never going to cross their lips?
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@misha! I have been reading down this very long thread and was thinking about Christina Pierillo. My daughter took a cooking class with her and bought her cookbooks home with her when she moved back home. I was skeptical when she started preparing her microbiotic dishes. I am a confirmed meat eater (and food snob) and I LOVED the dishes that my daughter cranked out. When she gets those cookbooks out I know that I am going to love it. I'm an easy 'crossover' eater.
Now on my soapbox- "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - stepping down.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
Since I sometimes think of food/cooking as either my sport or my art, the music analogy works. But even someone who is a great fan of many types of music and can appreciate the artistry in the things they don't personally like will have limits to what they listen to at home. I doubt you're going to find many people with an equal love for rock, country, rap, chanting monks, sousa marches, classical, tribal drumming, jazz, religious, techno, disco, and every other style. When they get home and put their feet up, there are going to be things that they choose not to listen to. There are probably some things that they absolutely hate listening to. Some people are going to have wider interests than others, but you are going to find few (if any) people who enjoy every style of music on the planet.
People who love paintings and drawings and sculptures will not like every style enough to want them all in their homes. You can see the effort that goes into a pointillism painting, yet still not want to buy one and hang it in your living room.
If someone comes to my home and doesn't like the musical selections that are playing during dinner, that's fine. I can turn it off or change to something we mutually agree on. But there's no sense in arguing about what is better, or us trying to convince each other to embrace each other's favorite music.
I'm sure there are vegetarians who look at a meat-based meal and say, "that looks good, but I don't want to eat it." Or "that's a pretty presentation, but not for me." Or they can appreciate the skill in preparing the food, but they have no interest in tasting it. Big deal. I can admire your fluffy coconut cake, but it's not passing my lips. Ever.
And for meat eaters to insist that vegans are missing out, keep in mind that the traditional western diet includes a very small subset of the animal kingdom. There are meat eaters in other cultures who would think you are missing out because you don't eat the same meats they do. I regularly eat beef, pork, lamb, chicken, turkey and most (but not all) seafood. So that's 3 mammals, two birds, and some underwater life out of everything possible. That's not much at all. I've probably missed a few things, but those wouldn't be on the list of regular foods, like bison and duck.
I know some meat eaters who won't touch any sort of seafood, so a vegetarian is cutting out five things that are on my regular menu. It doesn't seem like a lot.
I love food, I love to cook, but there are plenty of animals that I don't want to eat. I'm not interested in dog, snake, insects, cats, rodents, worms, or a variety of animal parts that some cultures like. I've tried a few meats that I wouldn't choose to eat again. I am a meat eater, but I eat a much wider variety of plant-based foods than animals. And some days, the whole menu is meatless. Big deal. It's a my choice. If someone else chooses differently, it doesn't affect me any more than their choice of music or artwork.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
My music analogy was supposed to be funny and only somewhat appropriate, but i'm glad it has got a few people thinking.
I'm cool with vegetarians and vegans, many of my friends follow those diets. I myself was vegetarian for awhile. I don't want to knock anyone on what they choose to eat (well, scratch that, i can rail all day against corporate fast food and all that but let's save that for later.) My point however is this: while I agree that you could cook for several lifetimes and create mind-blowing food without ever touching an animal product, I only have one lifetime to play out and when it comes to food, my expanding knowledge of cooking and developing a palate? I WANT IT ALL. If you don't want it all for whatever reason, it's all good, but I do. I'm just sayin'.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
As a fish & fowl eater, I'd like to recommend going to www.christinacooks.com for some fabulous vegan recipes! So long as you aren't allergic to the ingredients, everyone can enjoy!
Also, no one ever has any right to tell another person what they should or shouldn't eat. EVER!! We are each allowed our own choices for our own reasons.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
I love food. I love eating. I look cooking. I'm vegetarian. No one can tell me that I don't love those things.
+2 for @dbcurrie's "I fail to see why people get so upset about what other people choose to eat or not eat. Big deal. Eat what you want, let me eat what I want, and leave it at that."
@KarynMC, nice piece. Good to see everyone thinking so hard on a Friday.
Foodie vs. (Vegan) Foodie: Let's Stop Dropping Anvils Already
@jwalz I would just like to claim my extra super bonus points for getting the Scott Pilgrim reference! So great.
This conversation has been really interesting to me as an environmentally-focused vegan, with a lot more support coming out from the veg side than I would have expected (though I love SE anyway, so I shouldn't be surprised)! And it's been pretty civil too, so, nice dialogue.
It's helpful for me, when someone asks me to explain where I'm coming from, to denounce PETA's methods and veg militarism right off the bat. Then defenses go down a bit on both sides.
Also, though I'm sure it's been mentioned, it's not that veg people necessarily dislike foods with animal products (thinking of the music-taste analogy someone brought up), but may choose not to eat them while still recognizing their tasty tastiness, if that helps anyone see another perspective.
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@jwalz Sorry, I forgot that sax is a woodwind. The vegans can be no brass or woodwinds. So no clarinets either.