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Yes, its good to see him come of age in the 21st century. I wonder if he would take questions?
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Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I always questioned the validity of a reviewer as an "official pallet" for New York City. It's seems rather ostentatious at best. Mr Bruni, Mr Platt, how do they know what people really like? Example: Mr Bruni has displeasure with Vong. He has expressed this at different times this past year, Yet the place has been open for 14 years. Hmmm. Solid, good establishments do not last that long in this town. Many people obviously enjoy dining at this establishment.
1- The best way to gauge the revelence of the surveys is to see which restaurants rate in the top group in all the major ones. Mobile, Zagat, Michelin and the Times. Example: Per Se and Jean Georges. These places hit the high ranking in all 4. Three stars from Michelin, 4 - NYT, 5 with Mobile, 27 and above in Zagat. This puts Per Se and JG as good bets to be exquisite places to dine.
2- The best way to gauge the restaurants before trying is word of mouth.
3- The best way to get your opinions across without paying 20 grand for an ad in the newspaper is the blogs. (Thank you Mr. Levine for having a good one)
Jean-Georges Blogs
Yes, its good to see him come of age in the 21st century. I wonder if he would take questions?
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
Ed - What you call "citizen brigades," especially the on-line version, is what I call the "Tyranny of the Internet." Accepting free food from those who you review is unquestionably an act without merit or ethics - and some very popular reviewers on-line have engaged in and continue this despicable practice. But the tyranny in my mind comes from the hordes of self-payers who are without credential to practice restaurant reviewing. There are too many cases of petty and repeated thrashings of good neighborhood restaurants on-line that have resulted in loss of business and the tarnishing of reputations. I'll take Bruni, Platt and Michelin any day over the Zagat's, Yelps, menupages, community bulletin boards and other uneducated amateur gourmets who blog incessantly about restaurants - just because you have an opinion doesn't mean it's worth listening to.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I Just wanted to tell you how much I love your website, the critic system is having its revolution and it's healthy to see that kind of counter power emerge.
I read the article in the WSJ about the bloggers getting comped by some restauranteurs, in this article the Zagat people were saying that they are able to find out about those restaurants who ask their employees to vote for them. But to be totally fair don't you think they should do the same the other way too? let me explain, imagine some one wanting to harm a restauranteur because he's a direct competitor or he screwed his wife, or for any other reason. The guy asks a bunch of his friends to put bad reviews on Citysearch or to vote against him in the Zagat just to harm the guy, don't you think it can happen too?
My point is that it's time to demonstrate the unfairness of those kind of guides who just put up a computer system that uses and compiles the reviews they get on line and throw up a rating without doing their job to go and check the fairness by themselves. We all know the Zagat is filled with incoherences and still be (partially) responsibles for undeserved successes and failures.
Keep up with the good job !
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I agree with zapatista on Chowhound. I tend to trust the New York site, because I figure even as amateurs, New Yorkers eat out a lot and have a lot of choices so they know their stuff when it comes to restaurants; but when I checked out my own local market I disagreed so strongly with so many of the recommendations that I had to assume that the reviewers are not serious food or dining people. As a result I don't go anywhere near it for my own local area!
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
me3dia,
yes, i read it. in fact, let's revisit verbatim what the WSJ said about Batali:
"For Mario Batali, the tipping point was an article on Eater about a dispute between him and one of his restaurant's landlords. In response, he wrote an article for the site titled, "Why I Hate Food Bloggers," in which he decried blogs as bastions of "untruths, lies and malicious and personally driven dreck."
My whole point was that ppl are quick to bag on bloggers, case in point Batali. Really, I doubt Batali hates bloggers. Did I read his post on Eater when it first came out? Yes. I even commented on that post on Eater.
To answer your question. Yes. I read the WSJ article. Yes. I read Batali's post on Eater. What is it that you wanted to address about that?
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I would trust a survey type review (Michelin, Mobile) over an individual one (Bruni). Nothing against Frank, but the surveys send more people over the course of the year. Survey also aren't the general public (Zagat). Private surveys allow for consistency to be checked, anonymity to be maintained and no "cheerleading" for ones favorite celebrity chef.
If I may address Stevie's comment on Bruni: Frank gave Jean Georges a 4 star benediction. He has a firm belief that the quality of the dishes at some of his establishments suffer due to the fact that he has many to tend to.
I will admit however that it seems awkward to have Frank Bruni's negative remarks on some of JG's restaurants in his blog and yet the New York Times is co-sponsoring the tribute dinner for Mr. Vongerichten at the Miami Food and Wine Festival this coming February.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
Mat Shaffer broke the Zagat story in the Boston Herald and was nominated for, but did not win, a Beard Award for it. I think the Boston survey has since sharpened its pencils. Ruth Tobias is now the local editor, and she is a peach.
Chowhound, IMHO as they like to write, varies widely from market to market - much like the dining audience.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I can't believe no one has mentioned Chowhound. Mostly amateurs but fair, knowledgeable, and passionate reviews
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
That's quite a story about zagat, zapatista. Serious Eats should gather all the questionable Zagat dealings in a single post. We would of course call the Zagats and ask for a comment on each of them.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
What does Frank Bruni have against Jean-Georges Vongerichten? Was he a former employee or something? Leave Vong alone already! He trashed it in it's last NYT review and now wants to take Jo Jo down with it.
Vong NY - right on!
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
I would never comp a meal to a serious restaurant reviewer. Nor would I send out an extra course or offer any other special treatment. Sure there are tiny neighborhood publications who publish what are basically promo pieces written by hobbyist reviewers who do get their meals comped, but I don't think most people really take them too seriously.
In Boston there are 2 critics who are fairly well known among chefs and restaurateurs. Sadly they make their presence known, whether by flamboyance or simply announcing themselves. They've both come into my restaurant and I've sent nothing to either one. The other serious reviewers - we have maybe three more - I wouldn't recognize. They, too, have been in, but I still couldn't pick them out of a lineup.
Online reviews are different and generally shouldn't be trusted. There are many shills posting positive reviews and many competitors posting negatively. Zagat, I think, is okay, but certainly not perfect. Several years ago in Boston, Zagat came out with diner quotes and restaurant ratings for a restaurant that wouldn't even open for six more months.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
foodinmouth, that Batali post was sited in the WSJ article. Did you read it?
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
that WSJ story is getting mad coverage. Why are people so quick to crap on bloggers? Here's exhibit A, Mario Batali:
http://eater.com/archives/2007/06/why_i_hate_food.php
What's he doing now? Oh right, contributing writer for SeriousEats.com. Interesting.
Anyway, I think Bruni said it best on the dining section blog about how restaurants change day-to-day. Anyone who cares to read reviews online this day in age would probably go to various different sources to judge the ratings. A careful eater would also consider Bruni's point that consistency may vary.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
Hey folks - in the interest of keeping comments on topic I've started a new thread to discuss Kitchen Nightmares. Carry on!
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
alkatraz - what would you like to see different in Kitchen Nightmares? Gordon goes in, finds whats wrong with a restaurant, usually simplifies the menu and cleans the joint up, and the place seems to run better after he's done. Only big difference I can see is that the end of the UK version has him checking back p on the place after awhile.
Michelin, Yelp, Zagat: Who Can We Believe?
kitchen nightmares was dreadful. same producers as hell's kitchen? the UK version works because they let Gordon run the show, he's the one giving the opinions on whether or not the restaurant is listening to him. the US version uses the same narrator as Hell's Kitchen instead of letting Gordon talk. no idea why. show was a huge let down.
Jean-Georges Blogs
I love him even though he [gasp] boils/steams his ribs.
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I always questioned the validity of a reviewer as an "official pallet" for New York City. It's seems rather ostentatious at best. Mr Bruni, Mr Platt, how do they know what people really like? Example: Mr Bruni has displeasure with Vong. He has expressed this at different times this past year, Yet the place has been open for 14 years. Hmmm. Solid, good establishments do not last that long in this town. Many people obviously enjoy dining at this establishment.
1- The best way to gauge the revelence of the surveys is to see which restaurants rate in the top group in all the major ones. Mobile, Zagat, Michelin and the Times. Example: Per Se and Jean Georges. These places hit the high ranking in all 4. Three stars from Michelin, 4 - NYT, 5 with Mobile, 27 and above in Zagat. This puts Per Se and JG as good bets to be exquisite places to dine.
2- The best way to gauge the restaurants before trying is word of mouth.
3- The best way to get your opinions across without paying 20 grand for an ad in the newspaper is the blogs. (Thank you Mr. Levine for having a good one)