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Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
So, is "The Village Voice" now D.O.C.? Maybe Mr. Sietsema should have written his article in Italian. He probably needs to live in a pizza hinterland for a couple of years. The only D.O.C. that matters to me is "New York pizza", "NY-style pizza", "New Haven pizza", etc. God, I'm gettin' hungry...going to have to hit Tomatoes soon.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
@Adam: Excellent dissertation on burger styles. The, uh, chapter on "Steamed Burgers" struck a chord with me, to wit, I found a place, Blue Sky Ice Cream And Hamburger, in SE Michigan near Detroit Metro Airport that both griddles then steams their burgers. I know this because I asked. Anyway, the double cheeseburger comes with grilled onions, pickles, ketsup, and mustard. It costs about $2.45 and they are delicious.
Flying Squirrel Pizza Company: Former Starbucks Employee Treats Seattle Right
Maybe Rocky the flying squirrel? It's mildly iconic. I look forward to going to Jumping Hippo, when it opens.
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Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
Posted by Summerfield, February 20, 2009 at 11:59 AM
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Recent Comments | Response to Comments
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a slice is just a slice.
The fundamental thing's a pie
As time goes by...
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
So, is "The Village Voice" now D.O.C.? Maybe Mr. Sietsema should have written his article in Italian. He probably needs to live in a pizza hinterland for a couple of years. The only D.O.C. that matters to me is "New York pizza", "NY-style pizza", "New Haven pizza", etc. God, I'm gettin' hungry...going to have to hit Tomatoes soon.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
@Adam: Excellent dissertation on burger styles. The, uh, chapter on "Steamed Burgers" struck a chord with me, to wit, I found a place, Blue Sky Ice Cream And Hamburger, in SE Michigan near Detroit Metro Airport that both griddles then steams their burgers. I know this because I asked. Anyway, the double cheeseburger comes with grilled onions, pickles, ketsup, and mustard. It costs about $2.45 and they are delicious.
Flying Squirrel Pizza Company: Former Starbucks Employee Treats Seattle Right
Maybe Rocky the flying squirrel? It's mildly iconic. I look forward to going to Jumping Hippo, when it opens.
Grilled: Daniel Zemans, Chicago Correspondent
It's just quite possible, that, with the mad cow disease (bovine spongiform encephalopathy) scare of a few years ago (did it really go away?), that some people, myself and my genius friend included, decided that it was better to give away a bit of flavor rather than risk dying a horrible death, other than abstaining from burgers altogether. If you recall, our Government was taking absolutely no steps to prevent the spread of MCD to the US. So, we didn't know what the probabilities were. I've gradually moved back to medium doneness.
The Detroit Metro Area's Top 25 Pizzas
Tomatoes in Farmington Hills (two shops, one using a coal-fired oven) is simply the best. It's a New Haven style of pizza (disclaimer: I'm from NY metro) and the crust, tomato sauce and cheese are all first rate. Their sausage is killer, too. Buddy's, of course, is the star of the Detroit style of pizza. A friend of mine took me to the original store in 1981 and I've been a fan ever since.
@figlet: You're right, Sylvio's is the goods. The crust is excellent. Just had a slice there the other day. It's a Napoletana style.
Went to Loui's in Hazel Park and was disappointed. Sauce was way too salty.
NYPD in Ann Arbor has fallen prey to that peculiarly Midwest overcheesing syndrome, the slice thereby losing its balance. I think that that is what happens when you let the kids make the pizza.
Another very decent pizza not mentioned is My Cousin's New York Pizzeria in Bloomfield Hills. Sauce isn't as good as Tomatoes, but it has all the characteristics of a NY slice. One of the owners if from Brooklyn, NY. Hmmm...I'm gettin' hungry.
Photo of the Day: Quad Burger from Blimpy Burger in Ann Arbor, Michigan
Great photo. I recently had a triple with American cheese, grilled onions, and hot peppers. My wife wouldn't let me get the egg on it. And, it wasn't dry. Next time I get the Kaiser roll. Also, I see that the amateur negative comment troll has chimed in with its no cents worth. And, I agree with paanta.
NYC Schools Chancellor Joel Klein's Favorite Pizzerias
When I was growing up in NY Metro, "Neapolitan" was used just to differentiate from "Sicilian". A NY slice was Neapolitan, i.e., a thin slice. This was before the actual style of pizza from Naples was popularized by the, shall we say, New Wave pizzaiolis. Chancellor Klein looks to be a little older than I, so I think that he is speaking in the pre-Napoletana context. I think that there is little cause for concern. Hmmm, I'm gettin' hungry.
Hamburger America: Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burger in Ann Arbor, Michigan
@samjung23: One cannot take anyone seriously who uses terms like "blue collar chic", "limousine liberal", and "normal people". They don't have much to do with food, really. By the way, that's quite a feat, you having eaten at every burger joint in the world. My advice to you, Flounder, is to stop wasting your time becoming insulted. Be the burger, Danny.
Hamburger America: Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burger in Ann Arbor, Michigan
@LunaPierCook: My advice to you is to start drinking heavily. No, seriously, start your own food blog. You've obviously identified a void that needs to be filled. Granted, it'll mean a lot of eating...
Hamburger America: Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burger in Ann Arbor, Michigan
@LunaPierCook: I guess it must be the economy draggging everyone down. I understand. I have good days and bad days. My post was clearly humorous. Sorry you missed it. Motz hit Miller's in Dearborn and some place on Lake Michigan in SW Michigan, so that's not Ann Arbor and it's not Detoit. He didn't hit Dan's Tavern in Saline or Stiver's near Chelsea, but I'm not complaining. You should write him and give him some suggestions. He has a website.
@samjung23: There's no such thing as a "limousine liberal", and I have serious doubts about "normal people". You need a bigger sample than "a couple of normal people", maybe a fat-pig drug-addled radio talk show host, for example. They have burgers at Dinersty?
Hamburger America: Krazy Jim's Blimpy Burger in Ann Arbor, Michigan
@ESNY1077: He wants you to go to Luna Pier and eat the 10 lb. burger at some joint there, a place that George apparently missed on his hamburger pilgrimage. I don't know where he's getting that "not getting mugged' stuff, though. There's only one overrated burger in the Ann Arbor area and it can be found at The Sidetrack in Ypsilanti. It was indeed a killer burger 25 years ago, when it was near-perfect and just about the only thing on the menu. Now, the burger is just another item on the menu and the owner doesn't give a shit. I was recently at both Crazy Jim's and The Sidetrack, and the Blimpy burger kicked The Sidetrack burger's ass.
Hamburger America: Miller's Bar in Dearborn, Michigan
Boy, this thread has dried up.
@chowbelly: You're, uh, off point.
Hamburger America: Miller's Bar in Dearborn, Michigan
I love Miller's. No man or woman loves Miller's more than I. I have a hard time not ordering two, on a visit. However, it's not raining yet, but there's a cloud over this parade. On last visit, with Wife-enstein, we were waiting, up against the wall, for a table, which puts you in view of the kitchen, and, to my hamburgerial horror, I saw cookie pressing the juice out of the burgers cooking on the griddle with a spatula! I could not believe it. I wanted to shout, "No! Stop!". Now, were my last couple of burgers dry, or, did I superimpose what I just saw onto my memory? I said to the waitress, "I just saw the cook pressing the juice out of the burgers." She said, "It makes them cook faster." I said, "Don't do it to mine." How do we get them to stop this new (I believe it to be new) behavior? Does George call them up and tell them? Anybody else notice this?
In Videos: Padma Lakshmi's Bacon Western Thickburger Commercial
I hate all commercials. TV has become a dangerous drug. Stay away from it. I'd rather drink a can of bacon fat than watch TV.
Five Guys in Midtown Raised Prices
Well, it's a good thing they're not called Six Guys (bu-DUM dum). I'll gladly pay you Tuesday...AND Wednesday for a burger today.
Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
@Lorenzo: No I didn't. I've been staying away from Bourdain. I'm anti-TV. Having said, er, typed that, I do watch the Weather Channel with the sound off, which really, if you didn't know already, drives home the ridiculousness of commercials. So, TV, being the addictive drug that it is, pied pipered me into channel surfing one night, and I stumbled onto a punk rock Bourdain eating nearly raw beef in a Parisian bistro. The show had a dark quality, which one doesn't see in travel shows. I (shudder) put the sound on and got semi-hooked and actually anticipated the next several shows, but muting the commercials, of course. Fortunately, I fought off this back-sliding and am now back to only the Weather Channel with the sound off. Making the cold turkey easier was my perception that Bourdain had lost his rough edge and snark on the newer shows, and now was just another rich guy eating for fun in exotic places, admired by all around him. However, I miss NYC terribly, and I loved that show where he was cruising around Manhattan in a taxi. So, addictions notwithstanding, I'd love to see the "old-school Chinese food" show. I'd even put the sound on. And it'd be great if there was "a new retro-nostalgio-gastro" old-school chow mein revival. I made some the other night and it wasn't half-bad.
Brooklyn Grimaldi's vs. Texas Grimaldi's
@Adam: Thanks. I knew you'd understand. But, back to pizza. I guess the trick to charring is to not dry out the top of the pizza. One of the Tomatoes Apizza stores up here in Detroit Metro has a coal-fired oven. I went there a while back and, while his (Mike Weinstein's) cheese pizza was beautifully charred, he dried out his top a bit, which was a detraction.
Brooklyn Grimaldi's vs. Texas Grimaldi's
@Adam Kuban: I was striving for humor. You know, charred humor. Apparently I failed. Well, I think it's funny.
Brooklyn Grimaldi's vs. Texas Grimaldi's
What can one expect from the Death Penalty State. Perhaps Texas Grimaldi's should let the customers shoot the "burnt" pizza before they send it back, you know, as a marketing gimmick. Now, maybe if they were still using "the chair", charred wouldn't seem so, you know, alien.
Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
@hungryinhouston: Thanks a ton. I'm gonna try again this week, with chicken (I prefer lobster or shrimp, but if I'm going to ruin it, I'll start with chicken). I think I actually have oyster sauce and sesame oil in pantry. I wonder if cornstarch is absolutely necessary. I can get crunchy noodles at the local Chinese restaurant. It's shaping up to be a good week.
Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
@hungryinhouston (and @nightmoon too): I'm sorry I wrote, "bullshit crunchy noodles". I did, in fact, enjoy them. I didn't realize they were made in-house. Your stories warm my heart. I have a basic idea on how to make chow mein (celery, onions, bean sprouts, bok choy, chicken broth), and I've tried it, but with limited success. I failed in the spices. I'm wondering if you could provide direction so that I could try again. Please. I'm out here in the wilderness of SE Michigan, where once, a long time ago, I found a Chinese carry-out that almost made chow mein. Why, oh why, did I leave New York?
Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
@Lorenzo: Great story. We really do eat anything when hungry. According the the Food Time Line (http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodasian.html) chow mein/chop suey was made from available local ingredients to feed the Chinese railroad workers. Even though the food is not considered "authentic" Chinese food, it's roots are clearly in China. A knowledgeable Serious Eater says that chow mein is alive and well in Cuban-Chinese eateries in NYC. Chow mein disappeared in DC Metro in the mid-'90s. I just find it interesting, the trajectory of pizza as compared to the trajectory of chow mein. I'm gettin' hungry.
Winning haiku? No "Look Who's Talkin'" last week?
Back to haikus (put on your haikuing boots), my guess is that the haiku evaluators didn't adhere to the 5-7-5 requirement and didn't want us to know. Or perhaps they eased up on the de rigueur seasonal reference. Ha! Cool.
Weekend DVD Giveaway: 'Bottle Shock'
I sit still - distill!
Luscious grapes nobly ferment
Autumn harvest now.
Serious Eats City Guide Premiere: New York (How to Leave Here Pleasantly Full)
@Ed: I think most New Yorkers might be over the Shake Shack burger - am I alone here? There is an amazing burger down in FiDi at a hotel bar - I would definitely add it to the list - at The Libertine..
The Detroit Metro Area's Top 25 Pizzas
I've eaten some of the greats -- Una Pizza, John's, Grimaldis, Ginos, Home Run -- so i am pretty particular. Supinos is outstanding pizza. Michigander's like square pizza, and you really can't compare it to a thin crust. Tomato apizza is another great pizza.
Now, if you really want square -- Buddy's is great.
Deep Dish -- Pizzapapalis is great.
Alibi is not that great. It suffers from the same problem of many Michigan pizza. You look at the bottom of the crust and you see grid marks from a pan. This leaves a horrible aftertaste in your mouth. But, locals seem to like it.
I'll pass.
In Videos: Heart Attack Grill
I agree Adam...I think the whole schitck is exactly that....a schtick. If thier food was any good maybe I'd be more inclined to eat there again.
http://eatingtheroad.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/heart-attack-grill-diet-center/
They're just trying to tap into the whole shock/controversy thing...and unfortunately that does work. Those news stations can't get enough of it. If you really want to dislike them watch the video on their homepage (How to Kill a Giant):
http://www.heartattackgrill.com/
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
In his article Robert writes, "Now, Adam and me go way back."
Me? *ME?*
Where was he dragged up? And where is his editor?
To be a pizza writer, in addition to knowing pizza, it would help to know English.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Agreed, I think it was probably started with good intentions which got lost somewhere mid atlantic.
Learning about Naples tradition is a valuable education for anyone interested in pizza and even guidelines such as those provided by the VPN are still a good *starting* point, if not the last word in pizza.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Good points foolish, that I agree with.I think they probably had good intentions in wanting to protect a product and regional style,but untimately lost the plot.
Champagne got it right.
It would have been reassuring if you could have gone into any pizzeria in the world that was a member of that organisation and had confidence as to what to expect,much like a Michelin starred establishment.Now it is hit and miss,and has little credibility IMO.
I personally still fight tooth and nail in defense of the product and loath it's subsequent bastardisation,as I hope to be able to enjoy the real thing in at least some establishments outside of Naples in the coming years.I realise i'm in the minority,but so be it.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
@foolishpoolish: I agree with you completely -- I generally think that VPN is (at best) a heritage museum. Still, it's worthy of note that Pace and his group want to do preservation work. And if I had to choose between a VPN approved pizzeria and Pizza Hut... I'd probably go for the VPN shop.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
@passion4pizza
Anyone who makes pizza regularly with neapolitan ingredients will know that the official pizza discipline is a great guideline but it won't necessarily give you the best pizza followed word for word.
Things like "allows it to absorb between 50 to
55% of its weight in water to reach the “optimal point” and 4-6 hour rising times just don't produce an 'optimal' product. Work with the flour rather than trying to make your flour do what some guideline says.
Da Michele, for example, deviates from the VPN on several points. No one could accuse that institution of making sub-par neapolitan pizza.
The best pizza comes from experience not from rules and certification - and it's experience that makes pizzaiolos in Naples so good at what they do.
I submit there is an argument to be made that VPN America (for example) is just an attempt to franchise Neapolitan heritage. It essentially represents a consortium of local naples producers and craftspeople through selling the 'Verace Pizza Napoletana brand' to an audience of eager (sometimes misguided) pizza-makers and restauranteurs who feel this contrived sense of authenticity is equivalent to artisanal quality and excellence....or more cynically, a competitive edge in an already saturated market.
If you pay money for training and membership and then buy source all your ingredients from Campania, all your equipment from Naples....AND, after (and assuming) the VPN inspection team approves, you get to use the VPN logo and call yourself 'VPN approved'! Big deal.
They might as well be giving you golden arches to put up outside your pizzeria.
For those who claim this is preservation of tradition and culture, I say - go set up a heritage museum! . I can just see it now: a VPN task force descending on Shanghai to stamp out the manufacture of a new wave of 'fake neapolitan ovens'.
When's the last time VPN got involved in promoting domestic US produce such as olive oil, buffalo mozzarella etc. or educating US producers on how to mill 00 flour, for example? I'm guessing never...not now, not in the future. Here's hoping VPN proves me wrong!
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Just to throw another log on this wood-fired commentary, here's a link to the VPN's official Pizza Discipline, also available at our VPN page.
Just thought, if we're gonna talk about "real" Neapolitan pizza, we should refer to the extremists' documentation...
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Please tell Chris that I will be forever grateful for the time he spent with Michael and I, as well as for his generous hospitality. And also tell him that as he suggested, I will be sure to pay it forward.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
@Paulie: Phoenix in T-minus 8 days.
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
OHHH and i forgot
EVEN if Pizza were invented in America (which is wasn't) and not in Naples...
well then who else BUT NEAPOLITANS invented it in America?
Check mate!
and yes btw i am aware that primitive man was making breads and adding stuff on it and in theory that could be considered "pizza" but
that's not what's being discussed here
Gianluca
http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
OH MAN!!
well... where do i start....
ok i have never had roberta's pizza
so i can only comment on how it looks
and since i can tell if a person's soul is rotting upon meeting him/her
BELIEVE me i can tell if a pizza is good.
i am looking forward to trying roberta's because the pizzas i saw on the internet do look good.... mmmmm....
but they look slightly different than Neapolitan, which of course does not mean it's good or bad,..... just different
BUT THAT IS MY POINT,
WITH ALL DUE RESPECT to Robert Sietsema
this CANNOT be the best Neapolitan, if it's a bit different than Neapolitan.
you can say it's better, FINE...but it's not necessarily the same.
so the argument doesn't make any sense when it's being made in the "Neapolitan"category.
AND to be fair (again respectfully) i am pretty sure Sietsema also said a while back that pizza is American and not Neapolitan, which I am sorry but there is more agreement on the Iraq war than on THAT!!!
My mother used to tell me how her great grandmother would make pizzas learned from older generations.
My mother is almost 60, meaning probably her great grandmother was probably born in 1850 and SHE learned it from older generations in Italy.
SO IT"S IMPOSSIBLE that Pizza was in America when we had the Revolution!!!
NOW if Sietsema wants to say that the "style of pizza" that is popularized around America and the world is more American...yes, he's right
but he should also add that THAT style includes low grade- shitty products that the Taliban wouldn't feed their captives, out of decent human respect.
BTW as i wrote this comment it took forever because some Nissan ad video kept popping up and stalling and wouldn't let me type. I REALLY hope it's not gonna be a full time thing on slice, cuz it drove me NUTS!
And
@ Foolishpoolish
No, they don't call it Neapolitan pizza in Naples, but that would be funny though!! I guess it's like why Philadelphians do not call a cheese steak a "Philly cheese steak" !!!
ha ha, they'd probably look at someone weird if they heard that
take care
Gianluca
http://www.pizzaandcoffee.com/
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
"Honestly, I've never been to Naples...." Naples? You haven't even been to Phoenix.
Ciao,
Paulie Gee
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
Flaming? They want flaming? How about sending them Dodgers back to Brooklyn!
Village Voice Responds to the Slice 'Flame'
I'm confused. Why call the best pizza category "Best Naples-Style Pizza" when you clearly think the label doesn't mean what everyone else thinks it means? Was "Best Pizza" already taken? Did he only name it that to tweak Keste, Motorino, etc. and to start up some controversy? It looks that way. And it has clearly worked. Doesn't seem very helpful to the readers, though.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
The pastrami burger that Lexalpha mentioned has been refined to perfection in the Salt Lake City area, where one-off restaurants and local chains started by Greek immigrants have made it their signature specialty. No hamburger aficionado has truly lived until he/she has experienced a Crown Burger.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
What about the "cheese skirt" burger? There are several places doing this, one notable is the Squeeze Inn in Sacramento:
http://www.eatingtheroad.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/squeeze-inn/
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
Now that was by far one of my favorite burger posts I've seen! Way to get them all in one blog.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
What a collection!!! I'm partial to steakhouse, kobe and fast food. Quite the variety, I know. :)
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
@everyone: Thanks for the kudos! This was a lot of fun to put together, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'm sorry if it made you hungry, but dems da breaks!
@KingT: What would you say makes a '30s-style burger? Given what I've read about burger history, I'd guess it would either be a slider (since White Castle all but revolutionized burgerdom in the late '20s and up to WWII) or a slider-style burger (a little larger but cooked in a similar fashion).
@shanella: I'm only responsible for the first photo; the rest are Flickr Creative Commons–licensed or used with permission of the photographer. I know that any of Nick Solares's or Robyn Lee's are dSLRs (Nikon D300 and Canon 20D, respectively). For any of the others that link to Flickr, you can click through and look to see if the photographer has EXIF data for the photo. That should tell you camera make/model.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
@Adam what type of camera are you using??? These pics are awesome!
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
What about the 30's style? did I miss that?
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
This may be its own category...or all of the above.
From my experience it was very difficult to finish both the pint and the burger.
A culinary experience indeed.
The AHT Guide to Hamburger and Cheeseburger Styles
Very educational for us foodies Adam. Thanks for pointing out the difference between a slider and a mini burger...i always thought they were the same. I like the part about the fast food burger! lol! I think you're right about the kobe burger cause i enjoy the slight rubberiness of the minced meat against the soft bread in a regular burger...the kobe has enough brilliance to stand on it's own! What they call pimento cheese in the U.S. is what we call cheese paste in caribbean, and is often a combination of grated cheddar, mayo, grated onion, diced peppers and hot sauce, and is usually slathered between sandwich slices, cut into cute bite size triangles and served at parties.
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Whatever happened to chow mein (chop suey)?
Posted by Summerfield, February 20, 2009 at 11:59 AM
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About Summerfield
Location: Michigan
About: I am merely a reflection
in a mirror,
or, perhaps
in a bowl of soup.
Favorite foods: mushroom and barley soup,
pirohi with butter and onions,
chicken soup with dumplings,
lobster,
steamed blue crabs,
potato pancakes,
pan-fried noodles with roast pork,
chicken broth with big fat juicy wontons,
Last bite on earth: Would have to be my own mushroom and barley soup
You must remember this
A kiss is just a kiss, a slice is just a slice.
The fundamental thing's a pie
As time goes by...