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From Slice

Blogger: Frank Pepe's 'Overrated, Overhyped, Awful'

I disagreed with this post the moment I saw it, and had some real-world experiences over Memorial Day weekend that only confirmed these feelings. First off, some history - I have been visiting Pepe's for more than 20 years, and while it isn't always "perfect" it is consistently the best pizza I've ever had in my life, bar none. And we eat a lot of pizza... Totonno's was on auto-dial when we lived in the city... Nick's in Forest Hills (and, more recently, Rockville Centre), Mario's on Arthur Avenue (a close second to Pepe's I have to say), Una Pizza Napoletana, we've been all over the place and there is nothing like Pepe's.

We drive between New York and Vermont at least four or five times a year and always hit Pepe's on the way up, and usually on the way back. Sometimes we get lucky and hit it right and there's no line, more often there is a line - and we wait. We tried to get into Sally's one freezing night, probably 15 years ago, just out of curiosity. Stood there for probably an hour and kept watching "regulars" come up behind us and wander in sit down at waiting tables. That's the way they roll, apparently, the tourist schlubs can stand out there until their fingers and toes fall off, Sally's is going to take care of their regulars. Fine for them, we never went back.

We were headed up to Vermont Thursday night and got stuck in terrible traffic south of New Haven, it was clear we weren't going to make Pepe's by the time they closed at 10, but there was another place I'd heard good things about, Modern Apizza... no lines, a full menu including salads, etc., open until 11 p.m. on Thursdays. So we went there instead, hit the place at 10:40 and maybe they stopped feeding the oven at that hour or something but all I can say is the pizzas we got (one regular red sauce/mozz, one red sauce, mozz and mushroom/onions) were both soupy messes. Almost inedible. Literally the first 2/3 of every slice, on both pies, could not be eaten without a fork, you couldn't pick the thing up, the "crust" was the approximate consistency of yogurt. And the flavor of the part of the piece you could actually hold in your hand was a sharp and unpleasant saltiness. In short, it was terrible. I asked the waiter if this was normal and he said yeah, that's the way the pies come out. Found that a little hard to believe for a place that had been in business so long. Needless to say, I heard about my bright dinner idea from my wife and two young daughters all the way up to our destination (until they fell asleep) and over the course of the weekend.

Ride home came Sunday afternoon, and we hit Wooster Street around 7 p.m. Graduation weekend at Yale and one of the longest lines we've seen outside Pepe's in a while. We waited. Took about 45 minutes to get to our table and we ordered a red pie with mozz and our favorite combination at Pepe's, red sauce, spinach/onion and just grated cheese. Both pies were perfect, phenomenal char, even the spinach/onion slices could be picked up and eaten by hand, no soupy mess.

Tastes vary and people have every right to like what they like... but I have to tell you, we know pizza, we eat a lot of pizza, we've been all over the place and we've hit all the bright spots and there is nothing like Pepe's... there's a reason people have been waiting in line outside that door for more than 80 years, and it's going to take a lot more than a 30-second video of someone making chippy comments and banging some crust against a pan to lay a glove on the place.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Re: jakeyd - Pepe's may be the ONE place in the world where this is probably not necessary... "well done" pie at Pepe's is the equivalent of "burned beyond recognition" most other places I would imagine. Pepe's has got char down to a science. You just made me hungry, which I guess is what this is all about anyway.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

This is absolutely true... even at the best places (Totonno's, Nick's, etc.) we always specify "a little well done" and it makes a difference. There is nothing worse than an under-cooked or gummy crust, or goppy cheese, even at an establishment that knows what it is doing. Granted, these kinds of places are not nearly as likely to disappoint, but Ed you are onto something here... "a little well done" works across the board.

From Slice

Whole Wheat Pizza Crust Recipe

Adam - We actually have had some good success adding whole wheat flour to Peter Reinhart's classic pizza dough recipe. You can use a sliding scale based on how rustic you want to get. The recipe calls for 4.5 cups of flour... if you use 3 cups white and 1.5 cups whole wheat you will get a nice crust that is very close to the original, a little more "healthy" and still takes well to red sauce.

We've found that higher proportions of wheat flour - while delicious - don't work as well with red sauce pies. On these pizzas we usually go with various "white" toppings like roasted chicken, sauteed spinach/mushrooms, mozzarella, ricotta and even goat cheese (thank you, Ed LaDou).

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From Slice

Blogger: Frank Pepe's 'Overrated, Overhyped, Awful'

I disagreed with this post the moment I saw it, and had some real-world experiences over Memorial Day weekend that only confirmed these feelings. First off, some history - I have been visiting Pepe's for more than 20 years, and while it isn't always "perfect" it is consistently the best pizza I've ever had in my life, bar none. And we eat a lot of pizza... Totonno's was on auto-dial when we lived in the city... Nick's in Forest Hills (and, more recently, Rockville Centre), Mario's on Arthur Avenue (a close second to Pepe's I have to say), Una Pizza Napoletana, we've been all over the place and there is nothing like Pepe's.

We drive between New York and Vermont at least four or five times a year and always hit Pepe's on the way up, and usually on the way back. Sometimes we get lucky and hit it right and there's no line, more often there is a line - and we wait. We tried to get into Sally's one freezing night, probably 15 years ago, just out of curiosity. Stood there for probably an hour and kept watching "regulars" come up behind us and wander in sit down at waiting tables. That's the way they roll, apparently, the tourist schlubs can stand out there until their fingers and toes fall off, Sally's is going to take care of their regulars. Fine for them, we never went back.

We were headed up to Vermont Thursday night and got stuck in terrible traffic south of New Haven, it was clear we weren't going to make Pepe's by the time they closed at 10, but there was another place I'd heard good things about, Modern Apizza... no lines, a full menu including salads, etc., open until 11 p.m. on Thursdays. So we went there instead, hit the place at 10:40 and maybe they stopped feeding the oven at that hour or something but all I can say is the pizzas we got (one regular red sauce/mozz, one red sauce, mozz and mushroom/onions) were both soupy messes. Almost inedible. Literally the first 2/3 of every slice, on both pies, could not be eaten without a fork, you couldn't pick the thing up, the "crust" was the approximate consistency of yogurt. And the flavor of the part of the piece you could actually hold in your hand was a sharp and unpleasant saltiness. In short, it was terrible. I asked the waiter if this was normal and he said yeah, that's the way the pies come out. Found that a little hard to believe for a place that had been in business so long. Needless to say, I heard about my bright dinner idea from my wife and two young daughters all the way up to our destination (until they fell asleep) and over the course of the weekend.

Ride home came Sunday afternoon, and we hit Wooster Street around 7 p.m. Graduation weekend at Yale and one of the longest lines we've seen outside Pepe's in a while. We waited. Took about 45 minutes to get to our table and we ordered a red pie with mozz and our favorite combination at Pepe's, red sauce, spinach/onion and just grated cheese. Both pies were perfect, phenomenal char, even the spinach/onion slices could be picked up and eaten by hand, no soupy mess.

Tastes vary and people have every right to like what they like... but I have to tell you, we know pizza, we eat a lot of pizza, we've been all over the place and we've hit all the bright spots and there is nothing like Pepe's... there's a reason people have been waiting in line outside that door for more than 80 years, and it's going to take a lot more than a 30-second video of someone making chippy comments and banging some crust against a pan to lay a glove on the place.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Re: jakeyd - Pepe's may be the ONE place in the world where this is probably not necessary... "well done" pie at Pepe's is the equivalent of "burned beyond recognition" most other places I would imagine. Pepe's has got char down to a science. You just made me hungry, which I guess is what this is all about anyway.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

This is absolutely true... even at the best places (Totonno's, Nick's, etc.) we always specify "a little well done" and it makes a difference. There is nothing worse than an under-cooked or gummy crust, or goppy cheese, even at an establishment that knows what it is doing. Granted, these kinds of places are not nearly as likely to disappoint, but Ed you are onto something here... "a little well done" works across the board.

From Slice

Whole Wheat Pizza Crust Recipe

Adam - We actually have had some good success adding whole wheat flour to Peter Reinhart's classic pizza dough recipe. You can use a sliding scale based on how rustic you want to get. The recipe calls for 4.5 cups of flour... if you use 3 cups white and 1.5 cups whole wheat you will get a nice crust that is very close to the original, a little more "healthy" and still takes well to red sauce.

We've found that higher proportions of wheat flour - while delicious - don't work as well with red sauce pies. On these pizzas we usually go with various "white" toppings like roasted chicken, sauteed spinach/mushrooms, mozzarella, ricotta and even goat cheese (thank you, Ed LaDou).

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

Ed - I just wanted to say that the photography is really getting better... appetizing even. Great work and a very nice component of your recent posts.

From Serious Eats

Ed Levine's Diet, Week 15: Re-Entry Is a Bitch

Thanks for the reply, sorry to be negative. Ed - what was the name of that pizza place you went to with Todd English on that show you and he did... the one with the young chef/owner who made his own dough, very simple and limited ingredients, etc.

If it's still around I am going to try to go there. Appreciate you saving me having to hunt for the information.

From Serious Eats

Ed Levine's Diet, Week 15: Re-Entry Is a Bitch

Ed - I love your posts and you clearly have a great sense of good food... but here's one thing you are not - a food photographer. Those shots from the New Orleans trip looked like someone vomited on the plate... the Po-Boys were especially tough to take. The "Still Life: Meal On JetBlue Tray Table" in this post is similarly atrocious.

You are writing about FOOD, it's supposed to be appetizing. Give us a break on the photos and paint some pictures with your words, huh? That or hire a professional photographer to follow you everywhere - with appropriate lighting. I swear it will be better for everyone.

From Slice

Ed LaDou, California Pizza Pioneer, Dies at 52

Wow, this is really too bad. I got to know Ed and Caioti in its original Laurel Canyon location when living in the area in the early 1990s... just the nicest guy, who produced phenomenal food out of a really tiny kitchen. His restaurant was effectively in the basement of the Canyon Country Store. Ed's pizzas were tremendous, of course, but also very noteworthy were his garlic knots, which kicked off any great Caioti meal. An extra box of knots was a must when ordering take-out.

From Slice

Blogger: Frank Pepe's 'Overrated, Overhyped, Awful'

Just visited Pepe's again...and Modern. Agree that the clam pie at Pepe's is great. The others, though.....aren't. In fact, they're way down the list on my criteria. Sort of tasteless....and laboriously chewy.

Though Modern's crust is floppier, the taste of their "red" pies is quite memorable, and delicious. Their clam pie suffers by comparison (the fresh clams at Pepe's are unbeatable on a pie.) IMO.

From Slice

Blogger: Frank Pepe's 'Overrated, Overhyped, Awful'

Clam pie at Pepe's is my favorite food on the planet. Clams, garlic, herbs on that wonderfully thin and charred crust transports me to heaven every time.
The tomato pie is also stellar. And when I must have Mooz, the bacon and onion and pepperoni's also good. I've got a standards that I stick too.

From Slice

Blogger: Frank Pepe's 'Overrated, Overhyped, Awful'

Here's my thought. Been to all of the New Haven pie places many times. (My favorite place is in Trenton, NJ: Delorenzo's Tomato Pies; for me, nothing comes close.) The closest to really "top three" pizza in New Haven is Modern Apizza. Tasty cheese, nicely chewy crust.

The pies at Pepe's are not "bad", though the place is "overrated" and "overhyped" , as the person says. When I go there, I feel like I'm chewing on baked cardboard....my jaws hurt with every bite. I guess it's an issue of density of the crust. (Personally, I think coal ovens are way overrated: the crisp the outside and top of a pie, but the dough in the middle remains a chew-challenge. ) When I pass through NH, which I do 3-4 times a year, after much research and experience, I go right to Modern. No wait to speak of; great pie; good, albeit not as rigid, crust.

The clam pie at Pepe's is indeed in a league of it's own. The chewy crust isn't as noticeable with the chewy fresh whole clams they use.

Sally's is the most disorganized place maybe I've ever visited. Good. But, not worth the aggravation as it is just Pepe's cooked a little more, seemingly.

My top three, FWIW: Delorenzo's (Trenton and a new one in Robbinsville, NJ), Modern , Totonno's on Coney Island (hopefully, it will reopen sometime from the fire.)

DiFara: also, like Sally's...not worth the aggravation, though the pies are ok/good..if a bit oily.

That's my view....of the pizza world, which is mostly the "pizza belt" from MA to PA.

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

NEVER AGAIN:
I have been to Casellula several times over the past year, but I will NEVER GO AGAIN after I finally realized that the service is unforgivably terrible. I have always enjoyed the food and wine selections but I can no longer overlook how rude and inconsiderate the staff is (which has not changed in several years despite many negative reviews and complaints on the internet!). When one pays a 300-400% markup for wine and $14 for four spoonfuls of macaroni and cheese, one should expect at a minimum courteous service! Do not be fooled by other reviews that simply focus on the wine and food—you will regret you ever stepped foot inside Casellula (unless, of course, you enjoy being treated like an annoyance).

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

@NYC Food Guy the Binghamton campus pizza was terrible wasn't it? For some reason slices in the food court were more thoroughly cooked than the sloppy underdone pies they'd deliver to your room.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

I order well done pizza all the time. So much so that I am banned from a local place after they messed up my order and I sent it back...enthusiastically.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Agreed!

1. Give it a nice crisp in the oven so the bottom of the crust chars a bit
2. Sprinkle some Maldon sea salt flakes

Rescues any mediocre pizza.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

@smile:

Well, I'm not from SE MI. I'm from NY Metro originally, which is why I comb SE MI looking for NY style pizza. It's not an easy job. Of course, I do love Buddy's pizza too. I'm currently living in the Ann Arbor area.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

@Summer- where in SE are you from? I'm originally from Macomb County...

But I always ask for well-done pizza... my mom always did it and now I started.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

I live in the pizza wilderness of SE Michigan and a place very near my house makes a passable NY Neapolitan style of pie. Passable, that is, when I say, "half the cheese and make it well-done." It's...good. Funny thing is, I know the owner and he was complaining about how much money he was spending on cheese. I said to him, "Just use half as much!", but he didn't hear me.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

I actually do this all the time, but instead of saying well done, I tell them "very, very hot!"

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

How odd--I suppose I'm in the minority, but when I ate really crappy pizza, as in school square pizza or Lean Cuisine French Bread diet pizza, I would always eat it underdone, for the 'molten cheese' effect. To me, overdone pizza just tastes burnt--you might as well eat burnt toast.

The only kids who liked the burnt pizza in school were the kids who came to school high :p

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

I usually order well dont too, but for take home pie, I prefer to preheat the oven when ordering and just slide it in for a few when I get it home. Ill admit I usually cant wait either so Ill sometimes sneak a slice as is.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Undercooked dough is definitely one of my biggest concerns about getting a pizza delivered. If it happens (and I am not too hungry upon delivery), I'll throw it on the stone and shove it in the oven for 15.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

my customers still don't understand that sometimes a burned pizza is the best thing evar!

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Ramon: the pies at the NH Pepe's may always be well done, but FF location is a different story, we've gotten several that needed more time in the oven.

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

I've just been starring at that pie for about 3 straight minutes...I know what I'm having for dinner tonight!

From Slice

Here's a Tip: Mediocre Pizza Is Better When You Order It 'Well-Done'

Very good idea - there was a new place in my hometown, my boyfriend and I tried it and went "meh." We took it home, popped it in the oven for like, 15 minutes, and the doughiness went away, cheese melted, and boom! Good pizza. This place makes a bad habit of waaaay undercooking their pizza, so I tell everyone I meet who goes there to do this.

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

On a recent trip to New York my wife and I made a stop here based on this article. Our experience was fantastic. It is an intimate neighbourhood place that bustles with activity providing casual yet attentive service. We are very passionate about cheese and were blown away by the selection and knowledge available. I think the highest compliment that we could provide on Casellula is that we went back the next night because we loved it so much the first time.

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

And I thought chocolate cheese only showed up at Midwestern dairy farms....

Ah...cheese... =)

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

Ed, After seeing the killer mac and cheese, I can't believe you gained only one pound! Love your review and photos.

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

I didn't have any wine. I'm so focused on the food. Sorry about that. Zach Brooks, our sandwich columnist and SE:NY editor, is a Casellula regular and he says the wines by the glass are well-chosen and reasonably priced. They have 30 wines of all kinds (white, red, rose, sparkling) by the glass and many more by the bottle. The wine list is online.

From Serious Eats: New York

Casellula: A Down-to-Earth, Cheese-Driven Spot Whose (Unfortunate) Name Says It All

Did you not get a wine pairings with your food? I am eager to hear about that half of the establishment as well.

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