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Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Everyone here was so helpful that I'm going to give the brisket another go tonight. The stakes are raised...six pounds of meat...for two of us.
By the way, I cooked the rest of the bouncy brisket last time and it softened up. It needed like 2 more hours at 200...
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
@climbhighak: What's the difference between braising and cooking in a low temperature over a long period? The amount of liquid?
@salpico: You suggested avoiding acid and atleast one other person here recommended acid. Hmm...
@JerzeeTomato: The Grazin Angus Acres! They told me on two different occasions that I should cook the ribs at 200 or 250 for about two hours. The one time, I think it was baby back ribs and it was fine and the second time it was short ribs and those were meat rubber bands.
@1stmakearoux and Judith Klinger: Yeah, I was wondering if it would help to brown the brisket first. Also, I wasn't sure if the fat side should be up, but figured yes since the fat dripping down would be better than the fat just running into the pan. I have a dutch oven, but I just put the meat in a non stick roasting pan...what difference does it make to use my le creuset oven instead? And while we're talking about braising, is it nice to have an actual braiser? Does that shape come in handy?
Also, I didn't know this: "You are literally melting the collagen in the connective tissue."
@Junie: You suggested cooking the brisket at 325 degrees, and the temperature suggestions really vary on here. Any idea how your 325 brisket compares to a 200 brisket?
@morgancain: Yes, I marinated the brisket overnight in the roasting pan and then cooked it in the liquid, which there was a thick coating of in the pan (there wasn't enough to slosh around). (What temperature counts as braising??) This was in a Food Processor Bible recipe.
Short ribs aren't done dry either? Not defending this, but the Greenmarket's Angus Acres guy suggested a dry rub.
I still have the other half of the meat in the fridge...I might stick it back in the oven tonight just to see what happens. I'm going to use ground beef to make tacos, though. I know how to cook that. Taco night!
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
This information is life changing! The meat gets tough before it gets tender?! I guess that's basic information to some people, but I had no clue. I'm so glad I posted the question...thanks guys.
By the way, the brisket had been marinating overnight in (soy sauce, garlic, onions, mustard powder, maple syrup, paprika, etc.)
Oh, and here's where the 10-hour brisket in the oven discussion is, if you're curious:
http://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2009/09/slow-cooked-beef-brisket.html
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Harper's Magazine Presents: The Family Table in New York
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Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
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What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
Posted by Myszka, January 10, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Can you make anything in a rice cooker besides rice?
Posted by Myszka, February 21, 2007 at 1:15 PM
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Harper's Magazine Presents: The Family Table in New York
Oh, for anyone who's interested in this event taking place tomorrow (November 11, 2009), but not in New York...the reading will be streamed live at www.livestream.com/harpersmagazine
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Everyone here was so helpful that I'm going to give the brisket another go tonight. The stakes are raised...six pounds of meat...for two of us.
By the way, I cooked the rest of the bouncy brisket last time and it softened up. It needed like 2 more hours at 200...
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
@climbhighak: What's the difference between braising and cooking in a low temperature over a long period? The amount of liquid?
@salpico: You suggested avoiding acid and atleast one other person here recommended acid. Hmm...
@JerzeeTomato: The Grazin Angus Acres! They told me on two different occasions that I should cook the ribs at 200 or 250 for about two hours. The one time, I think it was baby back ribs and it was fine and the second time it was short ribs and those were meat rubber bands.
@1stmakearoux and Judith Klinger: Yeah, I was wondering if it would help to brown the brisket first. Also, I wasn't sure if the fat side should be up, but figured yes since the fat dripping down would be better than the fat just running into the pan. I have a dutch oven, but I just put the meat in a non stick roasting pan...what difference does it make to use my le creuset oven instead? And while we're talking about braising, is it nice to have an actual braiser? Does that shape come in handy?
Also, I didn't know this: "You are literally melting the collagen in the connective tissue."
@Junie: You suggested cooking the brisket at 325 degrees, and the temperature suggestions really vary on here. Any idea how your 325 brisket compares to a 200 brisket?
@morgancain: Yes, I marinated the brisket overnight in the roasting pan and then cooked it in the liquid, which there was a thick coating of in the pan (there wasn't enough to slosh around). (What temperature counts as braising??) This was in a Food Processor Bible recipe.
Short ribs aren't done dry either? Not defending this, but the Greenmarket's Angus Acres guy suggested a dry rub.
I still have the other half of the meat in the fridge...I might stick it back in the oven tonight just to see what happens. I'm going to use ground beef to make tacos, though. I know how to cook that. Taco night!
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
This information is life changing! The meat gets tough before it gets tender?! I guess that's basic information to some people, but I had no clue. I'm so glad I posted the question...thanks guys.
By the way, the brisket had been marinating overnight in (soy sauce, garlic, onions, mustard powder, maple syrup, paprika, etc.)
Oh, and here's where the 10-hour brisket in the oven discussion is, if you're curious:
http://www.seriouseats.com/talk/2009/09/slow-cooked-beef-brisket.html
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Interesting! The concept of the cooking the meat for longer when it's already cooked through is foreign to me. I figured it could only get tougher, drier and bouncier. I could play racquetball with this brisket, which we ate half of since, you know, it's still food. Can I just stick the other half in the oven tomorrow?
Can you make anything in a rice cooker besides rice?
Today's New York Times has a piece about cooking in rice cookers! http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/dining/01rice.html?_r=1&em&oref=slogin
Here's an excerpt...caught my eye because it said this blogger is a rice-cooker maniac:
Hui Leng Tay, a food blogger in Singapore, is unusually committed to her rice cooker, having developed recipes for fried rice, bibimbap, Thai tom yum rice and many others at teczcape.blogspot.com. She sees herself as seeking the elusive grail of cooks everywhere: the make-ahead, not-too-unhealthy, tasty meal. “I try to figure out which ingredients get better when kept over low heat for a long time, like cabbage and onions, and which ones get droopy,” she said.
How Food Porn Is Like Real Porn
@Pointy: Ha! Still laughing about "chubby little RR" two days later!
How Food Porn Is Like Real Porn
I can't believe that's Rachel Ray. She looks so different now.
Poutines Deathmatch: La Banquise vs. Patati Patata
@pjacob01: I read somewhere online (was it on Serious Eats??) that they use chicken gravy for poutine.
Poutines Deathmatch: La Banquise vs. Patati Patata
@Adam: Per your suggestion on how to get my Poutine fix in New York, I looked up the Inn on Yelp and Menupages...and couldn't find it (on Little West 12th or anywhere else). Help! Mama's got to get her poutines on!
@Kurteye: Oh, I can't speak in any detail about the neighhborhoods of Montreal after a 48-hour visit there, but if you re-read our review, our opinions are about the feel of Patati Patata and La Banquise, not the feel of the neighborhoods in which those establishments are located.
Poutines Deathmatch: La Banquise vs. Patati Patata
Say "Patati Patata" five times in a row, fast. It's hard!
Thanks for posting our review, Adam! You know...Rob and I felt like we had indulged by sharing the "regular" size plate of Poutine Trois Viandes (beef, pepperoni and bacon) as our lunch at La Banquise, but saw that others in the restaurant had ordered the large size of poutines for themselves and ate them as entrees!
Who likes to rock the party? Candadians!
Essentials: Fast Food, Bittman's Way, with Shrimp
I made this last night and landed on Serious Eats today after looking up the recipe online to find out where to find fresh paprika. Maybe this is a dumb question, but where is fresh paprika in the grocery store? I only saw the jar stuff at Fairway and bought that.
This dish was great, by the way. I'll definitely make it again...just wondering if fresh paprika would have made the dish even better.
Pig Faced Cooking Lid
OK, I just checked my pigs (they came in a two-pack: plate size and tiny bowl size) and there's a Marna stamp on them.
Here's a picture of them: http://www.flickr.com/photos/myszka/2472991296/
They're cute but too shallow to use in the microwave for most of my purposes.
Pig Faced Cooking Lid
Oh, and to Curlz...
You lift the thing by the ears...the thumb on one ear and the index finger on the other ear.
Pig Faced Cooking Lid
I wonder when this came out because I bought one that has the same idea/look and same pigginess, but it's made of a transluscent pink plastic and I bought it at a Target-like store in Seoul, Korea last August. It was marketed as a lid to cover food before microwaving.
Anyway, I wouldn't recommend this because the area under the pig is pretty shallow, so unless you're covering a bowl and the food is nowhere near the top, the covering is going to touch the food.
The Changing Face of Starbucks - The History of the Logos Through the Years
The final logo is like F but with the breasts covered with more mermaid hair.
Photo of the Day: Banana Wall
Self-confidence produces fine results.
Photo of the Day: Banana Wall
The green ones form the letters of an inspiring message!
When the bananas ripen and start oozing juice, you can go lick them and be one of the lucky few who can say they have eaten Sagmeister's art.
Upper West Side, NYC
I just learned that Zabar's does not sell any raw seafood. That is weird.
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
I'm going to try that pilaf, ktmc24.
I went with sauteed spinach and garlic and boiled then sauteed red potatoes (Citarella didn't have any new potatoes).
Thanks everyone!
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
In a pan, though.
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
@Nelson5757: Parboil and then cut in half? I could just cut them in half to start, right? I like that idea and the pureed root vegs! Will let you guys know what I end up doing.
I guess I'll go with asparagus for the veg...
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
@Blog in my soup: Genius!
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
Ah, quinoa! I cooked it once with some chopped apricots, walnuts and something else...what would you add in this scenario, sheeats?
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
Thanks, Nelson5757! Roasted new potatoes sound good, but how do I get the timing right if I don't want to cook the potatoes at the same time as the fish re moisture in oven making the potatoes too...moist.
Hm, what other fish would be a good substitute for "patagonian toothfish?" Good meaning as good if not better?
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
@Myszka: Braising is low and slow cooking with the pan covered and using a flavored braising liquid. Not necessary to cover the meat (that would be stewing or just plain boiling) but you should have the braising liquid at least half way up whatever meat is being braised.
The other method I was referring to is basically smoking of the brisket. No liquid involved. You could also roast in your oven but the smoke component I feel is critical for brisket.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Something I am not clear about - did you marinate the brisket and then cook it "dry," or did you cook it with some of the marinade or another liquid? I do brisket a LOT and it's something that needs to be cooked slowly, WITH moisture in the pan. Braising as opposed to baking. I believe that short ribs are the same, as I've never seen a recipe for them that gets done quickly or dry.
Here are two ways that I cook brisket:
1) Put in pan, sprinkle on onion soup, add a bottle of cocktail sauce (optional), pour in can of beer. Bake at 325(F) for a long time until it falls apart. Roughly mid-morning until dinner time.
2) Put in pan. Add around some scrubbed, sliced carrots (not thin slices or they disappear - more like chunks) and/or sweet potatoes and a lot of prunes. Pour in about a cup of red wine or so. Bake as above. You might need ot add a bit more wine. I've also used cider vinegar for this one.
3) Put in pan. Spread over a bunch of chopped canned tomatoes with juice. Add some chopped onion, a few hot peppers, and some more onion. Bake as above.
A note: If you don't mind using disposable stuff, my mother (who learned the first recipe as a young bride and passed it down) would line the pan with huge sheets of foil and then close them over the meat and accessories before putting it into the oven. You can also cook the brisket in a crockpot if it is small enough.
As for short ribs, most of the recipes I've used include a braise, tomato or red wine, and a long, slow cooking. It sounds like the meat is technically cooked but not really "done" when you have been taking it out. Pick a rainy afternoon and try a long braise and see what a difference it makes.
As for the already-cooked meat, I am pretty sure you can put it back in and cook it for a longer period, see if that helps. Meat should NEVER bounce (the occasional meatball being the exception).
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
ps - Heinz Chili Sauce is kind of like a thinner version of ketchup. Tomato paste/puree could be substituted.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
There are some great tips on this thread! Another super easy way to cook brisket:
Slice 2 medium white onions into rings, saute in a couple of tablespoons of olive oil until crisp-tender, add about 1/2 cup Heinz Chili Sauce and a couple of tablespoons of apple cider. Season your brisket with some pepper, cover it with the onion mixture and wrap tightly in a couple of layers of aluminum foil. But the brisket in a roasting pan and cook in the oven at 325 degrees for at least 5 hours/until fork-tender.
I slice this and serve with garlic mashed potatoes and broccoli rabe with lemon and butter.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Ciao. There are a couple of things to think about when you want to braise something.
The first is the pot...use a good heavy Dutch Oven or clay pot.
Sear the meat for a few moments in a saute pan, you are killing off surface bacteria, and the searing/browning will add flavor.
Deglaze the saute pan with wine or stock and use it in the braise liquid. Once you arrange the meat in the Dutch oven, add your liquid, it doesn't have to cover the meat but should come about halfway up the pot.
Put the Dutch oven with the meat & liquid into a cold oven.
Keep the temperature low for the first 2 hours: around 200F. You are literally melting the collagen in the connective tissue. If you go higher, the meat seizes up and gets tough. After two hours, go higher in temp to around 300F and then start checking the meat. When it's fork tender its done.
Braising is a technique that is very forgiving as long as you start with a low temp, and plan on at least 4 hours or so. Don't give up.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
I braise my brisket in a cast iron Dutch oven. I usually season it with some Montreal Steak seasoning, add a little meat tenderizer, and score the fat side with a sharp knife. Then I brown it, fat side down for a few minutes, turn it over so the fat side is up.Add a cup or so of beef broth or red wide, cover tightly, and cook at 350 for a minimum of 3 1/2 hours. It comes out tender and tasty!
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
I call bullshit too....makes us Good Meat Men look bad...lol
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Remember it's like sex : low and slow,the longer the better.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Ribs and brisket never take under 3 hours ever.Short ribs need braising in liquid for tenderness. Holy cow who made you waste that kind of money I would track his ass down. The ribs you can braise after you cooked them on stove. Brisket I would braise too and tender it up. Find that guy and give him a piece of your mind. Freaking Meat Butthead. I call bullshit on him.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
If you live at altitude, it will take longer for the collagen in the meat to break down. I live at 4,500 ft. and usually have to extend recommended braising times by about 1/2 (so if it says to braise for 3 hours, I have to do it for 4.5 hours at least).
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
I braise a lot of meat–beef brisket, short ribs, veal osso buco, pork shoulder, etc. 325°F. for 3-1/2 to 4 hours in the oven is typical. Pork can go a little less, actually, but I wouldn't attempt to cook it below 275°F.
You can also braise it on the stovetop, but keep it to a low simmer. Boiling the meat makes it tough, and cooks out the flavor. The same is true for chicken.
Also, avoid putting acid (vinegar, citrus) in the marinade or braise. This will also toughen the meat. If you want a little balsamic, or similar flavoring, add it at the end.
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Q "If that's the way to go, what are these two hour recipes about?"
A Hacks having the nerve to think they are actual cooks.
I am less familiar with brisket. I have only eaten it prepared two ways. Either it was slow smoked with a dry rub for many, many hours over very low heat, or the brisket was marinated in corned beef spices and then slowly braised in the oven. Low temps and long cook times are crucial in breaking down fat and cartilege in brisket.
For short ribs I am a little more experienced. They are also a cut that takes longer cooking times to fully realize their potential. Batali has a shortrib recipe called Brasato al Barolo that is outstanding.
http://www.mariobatali.com/recipes_shortribs.cfm
I have a friend that cooks them like this.
"lemongrass (1 whole stalk chopped)
ginger (1 large hand, chunked)
yellow onions (2 small-to-medium rough-chopped)
carrots (2 or 3 skin on, cut in 2-3" pieces)
juice oranges (2 quartered, peels on)
garlic (whole head split in half, skin on)
thai bird chilies (9+ depending on how many ribs..usually 9-12 peppers chopped)
green onions (bout 2 bunches, whites only)
soy (low sodium)
tamari (low sodium)
mirin
sesame oil (toasted)
beef stock (my own from the freezer)
oj (most citrus juice works..the other day i had a bottle of bolthouse mango-lemonade and i tossed that in and it was fan-fucking-tastic)
honey (bout 1/2c)
sesame seeds (black & toasted white)
shichimi togarashi
after the ribs are cooked & removed from the gunk in the dutch oven, i do the usual strain and reduction (by 50%) of the liquid and add one more shot of honey (usually orange blossom or clover..about 1/4c) and the sesame seeds and then toss the ribs back in..and the DO goes back into the oven at 350 for about 40 min turning the meat every 10 min to coat evenly and glaze. serve over short grain/sushi rice with reserved braised carrots and top w/sliced green onions..."
I haven't tried that recipe but just from her description and the ingredients I know it would be delicious.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Newman's Own Light Balsamic - you can't go wrong.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Marie's Blue Cheese although we mostly go with oil and vinegar.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
It's not exactly "store" bought but I came across Wistoria Garden's Very Nearly Famous House Vinaigrette at the farmer's market that the Eastern Market, in Washington, D.C. quite some time ago. To date I have gone ordered FOUR of their 12-bottle boxes. It's amazing and I love turning people on to it!
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
I make my own - saves a lot of money - no waste and I can adjust the type to fit the rest of the meal. Bottled dressings seem to go rancid fast and then they are awful!
I have several kinds of vinegar and can vary my "sauce" when I mix it. Use good oil and "taste".
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
I usually don't use store bought dressing, but when I do it's Newmans Own Light Italian with Lemon. It is very good.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Marie's blue cheese is the best and I always have that in the refrig..I have to try Marie's blue cheese vinigrette..While I make my own Italian dressing, I do Good Season's every so often and add my own stuff to it...
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Gosh, I am amazed no one cited "Ranch" dressing as a favourite - here in Canada, it is probably the most popular by far. Next time I am in the U.S., I will buy some, "Maries blue cheese" - several people have mentioned it and I love blue cheese dressing, but I make my own (not always convenient) because I can't find a good one. I don't think Maries is sold here.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
I have always loved Marie's blue cheese, and NOW they came out with Marie's Blue Cheese VINIGRETTE!!! It is simply AWESOME!!!
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Marzetti's Blue Cheese.
My husband also uses Marzetti's slaw dressing on sandwiches and in tuna salad, potato salad, and pea & peanut salad, in place of mayo.
I also use only Kraft Free Zesty Italian in pasta salad because it doesn't get slimy or soggy. If anything, if I keep the salad more than a couple days I need to add more dressing because it dries out.
What is the best store bought salad dressing?
Garlic Expressions is terrific, and it is also a wonderful marinade.
Poutines Deathmatch: La Banquise vs. Patati Patata
Hum! Tough choice!
Although patati patata adds wine and chicken stock to their gravy, my favourite remains the classic poutine from La Banquise. Check out this video to see how the chef makes the poutine.
What's your favorite midnight snack?
I go for the easy stuff. Leftovers, (Chinese is especially good!) whatever chips/cookies/crackers are around... Things that don't need prep. I'm too lazy to put ice cream in a bowl late at night!
Question of the Day: On Your BurgerKetchup or Mustard?
Unless I'm trying to be a show off, and grinding my own meat, or stuffing blue cheese in the middle of the burger patty, I am completely indiscriminate about what I'll slop on a burger- ketchup, mustard (yellow, dijon or grainy), mayo, relish, pickle, bbq chips, onion rings, pickled onions sliced thin, horseradish, all and sundry hot sauces, vegetables, what else ya got? I pay zero mind to the flavor combinations in that case for some reason and I am rarely displeased.
Recent Posts
Harper's Magazine Presents: The Family Table in New York
Posted by Myszka, October 27, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Posted by Myszka, October 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
What to pair with prosciutto-wrapped seabass?
Posted by Myszka, January 10, 2008 at 11:21 AM
Can you make anything in a rice cooker besides rice?
Posted by Myszka, February 21, 2007 at 1:15 PM
Recent Favorites
Harper's Magazine Presents: The Family Table in New York
Posted by Myszka, October 27, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Boing! Rubbery meat help for brisket/short ribs, please
Posted by Myszka, October 20, 2009 at 10:12 PM
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Oh, for anyone who's interested in this event taking place tomorrow (November 11, 2009), but not in New York...the reading will be streamed live at www.livestream.com/harpersmagazine