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From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Kenji, you'd need either an i before the double-L or an e or y after. "Maillot de bain," bathing suit, is pronounced mah-yo; "chantilly," of course, is chohn-tee-yee.

I have this theory that the "balantine" hybrid word came about in part because of Ballantine's whiskey.

Re: mayo, I guess I'm saying that the offending aioli might actually have the teeniest smidgen of garlic in it. Oh I don't know.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Kenji, it's not pronounced bah-yo-tine. It's bal-o-tine. And aioli and mayonnaise are, as I'm sure you know, different things.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Thanks, Kenji! Norman Rockwell is rolling in his grave a little, but hey :)

I have only ever made one Thanksgiving turkey (am a recent arrival to US) and I basically pretended I was cooking a very large version of Thomas Keller's "poulet roti a ma facon." So I salted my unbrined, unstuffed bird like crazy--with coarse salt--and put it in a roaring hot (450) oven for 2 hours. Didn't touch it or baste it during that time. Fast and moist, but, like I say, I don't have a lot to compare it to.

Which is all to say that if you ever feel like doing a exhaustive, and surely exhausting, comparison of methods, I would be very eager to see how that method stands up. I won't hold it against you if you don't, though.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

I have a couple of questions about how your findings apply to an actual Thanksgiving turkey, since most of us will not be eating just the breast :)

1. How does brining affect the skin of the bird? I notice that you sear the breast to crisp the skin. That's not really possible with a whole bird, so what would you recommend in that case?

2. Certainly a breast is at its juiciest at 140-150F, but, if the breast part on a whole bird is at 145F, then the thigh is almost certainly still a little undercooked, right? (That's true for a chicken, at any rate.) How would you get around this? In school, we'd sometimes remove the cooked chicken breast and return the rest of the bird to cook for a little longer, but this doesn't seem practical with a whole turkey.

Thanks!

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Recent Comments | Response to Comments

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Kenji, you'd need either an i before the double-L or an e or y after. "Maillot de bain," bathing suit, is pronounced mah-yo; "chantilly," of course, is chohn-tee-yee.

I have this theory that the "balantine" hybrid word came about in part because of Ballantine's whiskey.

Re: mayo, I guess I'm saying that the offending aioli might actually have the teeniest smidgen of garlic in it. Oh I don't know.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Kenji, it's not pronounced bah-yo-tine. It's bal-o-tine. And aioli and mayonnaise are, as I'm sure you know, different things.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Thanks, Kenji! Norman Rockwell is rolling in his grave a little, but hey :)

I have only ever made one Thanksgiving turkey (am a recent arrival to US) and I basically pretended I was cooking a very large version of Thomas Keller's "poulet roti a ma facon." So I salted my unbrined, unstuffed bird like crazy--with coarse salt--and put it in a roaring hot (450) oven for 2 hours. Didn't touch it or baste it during that time. Fast and moist, but, like I say, I don't have a lot to compare it to.

Which is all to say that if you ever feel like doing a exhaustive, and surely exhausting, comparison of methods, I would be very eager to see how that method stands up. I won't hold it against you if you don't, though.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

I have a couple of questions about how your findings apply to an actual Thanksgiving turkey, since most of us will not be eating just the breast :)

1. How does brining affect the skin of the bird? I notice that you sear the breast to crisp the skin. That's not really possible with a whole bird, so what would you recommend in that case?

2. Certainly a breast is at its juiciest at 140-150F, but, if the breast part on a whole bird is at 145F, then the thigh is almost certainly still a little undercooked, right? (That's true for a chicken, at any rate.) How would you get around this? In school, we'd sometimes remove the cooked chicken breast and return the rest of the bird to cook for a little longer, but this doesn't seem practical with a whole turkey.

Thanks!

From Serious Eats

Macaroni Soup with Ham for Breakfast in Hong Kong

My favorite breakfast in the whole world. They usually come in sets, so you can choose a breakfast drink (tea, coffee, 1/2 tea 1/2 coffee, Ovaltine, or Horlicks) and a big piece of crustless toast with butter, peanut butter and/or sweetened condensed milk. Heaven.

From Serious Eats

Gadgets: The Original Muffin-Top Tin

If you just dolloped circles of muffin batter on a regular sheet pan, do you think they might come out sort of like domed tops anyway?

There was an opportunity here to post the Muffin Top song clip from 30 Rock, and it was missed :)

From Slice

Out of the Box: Dr. Oetker Ristorante Mozzarella Frozen Pizza

I really love Dr Oetker 4-cheese. And the brand boasts pretty impressive picture-on-box fidelity, don't you think?

From Serious Eats

Serious Cocktails: Gin-to-Vermouth Ratios in Martinis

I don't know the exact ratio used, but I've been known to ask for my martinis "wet." I like vermouth! Where's the fun in a glass of neat gin?

My belief is that people are ever more concerned with appearing sophisticated and making the "correct," tasteful choice--which generally ends up meaning the dryer the better, whether it's chocolate that's 1 million % cacao, or avoiding rieslings, or, in this case, dispensing with the vermouth. It's all very silly.

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo

@maggiej That's really cheap! I had heard that they were cheaper this year but that's pretty considerable. Is $8.99/pound for whole, uncooked lobster, or...? I gotta check it out.

@DELICIOUS Heh. Careful there, or people will think I'm on Zapp's payroll.

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo

@delilah I've actually only found them at a very expensive "gourmet" store we have called Dean & DeLuca. If anyone has any other sources for Zapp's, please speak up!

@jammin83 Come back and let us know how it went!

@daemon Yes, assuming your boss is wearing a laser monocle. Please.

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck

@dpisping I don't dispute that a wide range of dry wines, both red and white, can be used. But cab and shiraz are far more tannic than merlot, which could potentially lead to a really astringent sauce.

From Talk

South Brooklynites--Question

The city's much cheaper, but if I want to stay in Brooklyn I like Cook's Companion on Atlantic. Plus it's right next to Sahadi's and Damascus Bakery, so I can pick up a slice of baklava on my way home :)

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck

@realhound Shiraz and Cab are too full-bodied for a stew like this, which uses only wine for the braising liquid. Merlot is a lighter varietal and better suited to this dish.

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck

@nasochkas Nobody is asking you to drink it. Not drinking it is kind of the point :)

@crankycakes Thanks for the kind words!

@borrais I would suggest that you use a favorite boeuf bourguignon recipe--say, this one, which has very similar ingredients--and simply substitute the Two-Buck Chuck.

@nicochi Thanks! I'm really glad it worked out.

From Serious Eats: New York

Sugar Rush: Cherry Snow Cone at Num Pang

I tried this yesterday and they were so stingy with the syrup and cherries :( It's a nice flavor with good potential but they're not really executing it properly.

We also got a lime/lemongrass one, which was so sour and bitter that we threw it away after a few bites.

From Recipes

Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck

@carriebwc That was a bad call on my part. In the UK, where I lived last, the two varieties are commonly available side by side. In fact, smoked bacon will work just fine.

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Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck

@laurelie I hoped that I'd made it clear that my perseverance paid off but I guess not :) Hot plate cooking really is tough, though...takes eons for the thing to get hot enough and then even longer to cool it down again.

From Recipes

The Nasty Bits: Southern Fried Gizzards

I've never had gizzards any other way than confit-style or in Chinese watercress soup (those were duck gizzards, I believe). But I have Southern-fried innard experience with chicken livers, marinated and breaded much as these are, but bigger and meatier.

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Word Coinage: 'leopard spotting'

What with all the upskirt leopard-spotting, this is starting to sound like an over-cougarization of the pizza lexicon.

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Laura Ling's Special Soup Revealed, Sort Of

There's nothing herbal about watercress soup. It's, as @e_ting says, "tasty and consomme-like." If it's a traditional Cantonese watercress soup it'll start with a broth of pork bones and contain duck gizzards, too. It's so popular that Campbells actually makes a special watercress and duck gizzard canned soup just for the Asian market--or used to, as I can't find it on the website anymore.

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Jamba Juice's New California Flatbreads: We Ate Them So You Don't Have To

(a) Surprised "Californication" pun has not been made in some form.

(b) They're not even flat. Not. Even. Flat.

From Serious Eats: New York

Sam Sifton as New York Times' New Restaurant Critic; Serious Eaters Should Be Thrilled

Oh, he is such a wonderful writer. So, so good. I was getting all weepy this morning because I was going to miss all of Frank Bruni's flourishes and kapows...so this is perfect and wonderful and grand.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@Adam

haha - thanks.

I can't believe I mispelled that! ;)

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@Kenji: Just fixed the title — peave to peeve. You're welcome! ;)

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@finsbigfan

Hey - just take the MARSCAPONE and spread some of it on your BRUSH-ETTA!

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

I'll just sit here sipping my EXPRESSO and wondering what to do with that container of MARSCAPONE.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

TV cooks who pronounce paprika with the extra "a" in there; i.e.,
pap-a-rika (you know who you are Paula Deen, et al!)

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@michele humes

Thanks for the correction - I guess I'm equally guilty!

As for the aioli/mayo thing, I've worked in restaurants where we'd call something aioli, even if it had no garlic whatsoever.

Moreover, adding a tiny smidge of garlic to mayo doesn't make it into an aioli - it's just a garlic-mayo, which is not the same as aioli. That's like saying adding a drop of oil to a cup of vinegar makes it into a vinaigrette - it doesn't. These things are defined!

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

while we're on the subject of mispronouncing stuff, i'm going to use this forum to announce how much it irritates me when everyone pronounces Brett Favre's name the wrong way. totally off topic, i know :)

it's Fah-Vrah. not Far-Vah.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Aluminum is pronounced differently in the UK beacuse we usa a different spelling and it has an additional syllable al-u-min-i-um.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

Oregano is often pronounced differently in the U.K. vs. the U.S. along with basil and herb. Aluminum is the one I find amusing because there seems to be an extra syllable thrown in there in the U.K. I think it may depend on just where you live.
Tomato/tomaato, potato/potaato; let's call the whole thing off...

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@michele humes

Really? Are there other examples in the French language where a double L makes an "L" sound instead of a "Y" sound? Can't remember any of the few years i took in high school. Anyhow, it's the extra "n" that really gets me - like the extra "L" in chipotle.

And yes, mayo and aioli are different things. That was my point! Chefs are often too chicken to write "mayo" on the menu, so they use aioli instead because it sounds fancier.

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

@phenoderr - I know the correct spellings/pronunciations of those words - what I wrote was how they are (incorrectly) pronounced by certain chefs. :)

From Talk

Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".

But uh...marscapone is spelled mascarpone, and chipolte is spelled chipotle. ;-)

Technically the "correct" (or dialing even further, the historically accurate) pronunciation of chipotle is "chee-poh-til." But "chee-poht-lay" is correct using the common rules of Mexican Spanish as understood in modern times. To me saying "chee-poh-til" is the same as using Victorian English...it's outdated.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

This is not good. Nearly every turkey I've had in the past 10 years (unless I cooked it myself) is waaaaay too salty. This cannot make that trend better. I "brine" my turkey in the same thing I baste it in: a knarley mix of bacon grease (rubbed lovingly inside/outside/forced into every crevace) and orange juice. No extra salt added. Baste every 30 minutes or so while cooking. Turkey comes out juicy, the skin is crunchy and tangy and perfect (according to my friends who like the skin best - not me) and the stuffing even soaks up some of the flavor. And those of us who have not been inured to the excess salt of a junk food diet can eat it without soaking it in fresh water first. Of course, my vegan wife is not so thrilled, so I ask my friends to store up bacon fat for me - no bacon frying is one of the compromises (but not without benefit - she makes the best curries you could ask for).

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

I've brined and fried and the bird was great. Recently I've brined but added a little herb stock That is bay lea,f rosemary, basil, celery, onion and garlic simmered for 20 minutes then cooked and added to the brine along with half a cup of sugar. I brine over night in a big stock pot on the back porch when the nighttime temperature is in the high 30's or in a cooler if it is warmer (I replace some of the water with ice. It is melted but still cold by morning).
I cook the bird breast side down on a V rack with no stuffing (except an oinion and a celery stalk and maybe an apple) 450 degrees for 15 minutes and then down to 330 degrees. I use a convection oven . I turn the bird onto it's back (carefully) for the last 20 minutes to brown the breast skin.
The result is crispy skin all over, moist tender meat and because the exposed back cooks more quickly than the breast which is on the bottom, the white and dark meat are both cooked perfectly

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

You know, I have done the same as Mr Brown. However when I make my gravy I degrease some of the juice from the roasting pan and pour it into the "Dressing" Pan this gives me the flavor that I crave minus the fat. Try it you will like it!

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

I've never experienced a texture issue so radical as the one you describe - to have fresh turkey resemble "deli" turkey. The texture is plump and juicy and exactly like a regular turkey breast except the moisture is not cooked out of it. If you'd like to try brining, grab a supermarket chicken and have a go at it before the big day.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Does this type of brining technique give you texture like smoked turkey breast? Like the kind you get with prepackage/sliced turkey breast? There is something to be said about naturally moist Turkey...

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

By cooking at 275-300, I mean cooking in a deep fryer with peanut oil.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

@Jim O

I actually did one like that today. I did a full breast with skin on, brined for about 8 hours. I marinated it (injected) with a sweet and hot marinade (maple syrup, garlic, cayenne pepper and a few other things) then cooked it at 275-300 degrees (I find cooking hotter than that burns the skin, and I love the skin.) for about 5 mins per pound (also checked internal temp for 145 degrees). It was amazing.

From Serious Eats: New York

El Cocotero: A Venezuelan Neighborhood Restaurant That Fills A Need

The Hallaca plate sounds crazy because it is eaten in Venezuela only in Xmas. I guess it's a one time indulgence. As a Venezuelan, I would feel totally weird eating hallacas even in November. It's like having a Thanksgiving meal in July.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Interesting... I love this tutorial. That meat looks amazingly tender. e cigarette

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

So I deep fry my turkey's and I've never bothered brining them before as they tend to come out pretty moist as it is. I'm definitely not past trying it to make a good thing better but my concern is if this would have any impact to how a turkey fries.

Anyone tried it before?

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Check out the following website for an alternate salting method which is more suitable for smaller cuts of meat rather than for a 25 lb. turkey...

http://steamykitchen.com/163-how-to-turn-cheap-choice-steaks-into-gucci-prime-steaks.html

Some great chefs still believe in massive salting and rinsing as opposed to brining, even for large cuts of meat. But for steak and chicken breast in particular, I've noticed a very apparent increase in flavor. The salt initially draws the water out of the meat and then 30-40 minutes later, it sucks the salty liquid into the center. By rinsing off the exterior, you are ensuring that you won't be eating 90% of the salt. The meat is perfectly seasoned after this, no more salt is needed.

You're right about the importance of internal temperature. 140-145 is perfect for poultry. Pork and beef can be served slightly at less temps. Do yourself a favor... throw out those "pop-up" thermometers that come with your turkey. They are the main reason the majority of home cooks have dry turkey on Thanksgiving since the seal that breaks to signal cooking is complete only does so at 180 F+ degrees. The government is playing it about 15 degrees safer than their 165 F recommendation, even though 140-145 is perfectly safe.

From Serious Eats

The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics

Kenji, if you are opposed to brining: How do you prepare your turkey?

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About Michele Humes

Website:

Location: Brooklyn, NY

About: Serious Eats contributor, rabbit enthusiast, pedant.

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