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Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Kenji, it's not pronounced bah-yo-tine. It's bal-o-tine. And aioli and mayonnaise are, as I'm sure you know, different things.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Thanks, Kenji! Norman Rockwell is rolling in his grave a little, but hey :)
I have only ever made one Thanksgiving turkey (am a recent arrival to US) and I basically pretended I was cooking a very large version of Thomas Keller's "poulet roti a ma facon." So I salted my unbrined, unstuffed bird like crazy--with coarse salt--and put it in a roaring hot (450) oven for 2 hours. Didn't touch it or baste it during that time. Fast and moist, but, like I say, I don't have a lot to compare it to.
Which is all to say that if you ever feel like doing a exhaustive, and surely exhausting, comparison of methods, I would be very eager to see how that method stands up. I won't hold it against you if you don't, though.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
I have a couple of questions about how your findings apply to an actual Thanksgiving turkey, since most of us will not be eating just the breast :)
1. How does brining affect the skin of the bird? I notice that you sear the breast to crisp the skin. That's not really possible with a whole bird, so what would you recommend in that case?
2. Certainly a breast is at its juiciest at 140-150F, but, if the breast part on a whole bird is at 145F, then the thigh is almost certainly still a little undercooked, right? (That's true for a chicken, at any rate.) How would you get around this? In school, we'd sometimes remove the cooked chicken breast and return the rest of the bird to cook for a little longer, but this doesn't seem practical with a whole turkey.
Thanks!
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Recent Posts
Eat for Eight Bucks: Curried Chicken Skewers with Lime-Apricot Glaze
Posted by Michele Humes, September 1, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Best-Ever Salad for Leftover Meats
Posted by Michele Humes, August 25, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo
Posted by Michele Humes, August 18, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
Posted by Michele Humes, August 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM
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'So You're Saying People Will "Tweet" What They Eat for Breakfast?'
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Recent Comments | Response to Comments
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Kenji, you'd need either an i before the double-L or an e or y after. "Maillot de bain," bathing suit, is pronounced mah-yo; "chantilly," of course, is chohn-tee-yee.
I have this theory that the "balantine" hybrid word came about in part because of Ballantine's whiskey.
Re: mayo, I guess I'm saying that the offending aioli might actually have the teeniest smidgen of garlic in it. Oh I don't know.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Kenji, it's not pronounced bah-yo-tine. It's bal-o-tine. And aioli and mayonnaise are, as I'm sure you know, different things.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Thanks, Kenji! Norman Rockwell is rolling in his grave a little, but hey :)
I have only ever made one Thanksgiving turkey (am a recent arrival to US) and I basically pretended I was cooking a very large version of Thomas Keller's "poulet roti a ma facon." So I salted my unbrined, unstuffed bird like crazy--with coarse salt--and put it in a roaring hot (450) oven for 2 hours. Didn't touch it or baste it during that time. Fast and moist, but, like I say, I don't have a lot to compare it to.
Which is all to say that if you ever feel like doing a exhaustive, and surely exhausting, comparison of methods, I would be very eager to see how that method stands up. I won't hold it against you if you don't, though.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
I have a couple of questions about how your findings apply to an actual Thanksgiving turkey, since most of us will not be eating just the breast :)
1. How does brining affect the skin of the bird? I notice that you sear the breast to crisp the skin. That's not really possible with a whole bird, so what would you recommend in that case?
2. Certainly a breast is at its juiciest at 140-150F, but, if the breast part on a whole bird is at 145F, then the thigh is almost certainly still a little undercooked, right? (That's true for a chicken, at any rate.) How would you get around this? In school, we'd sometimes remove the cooked chicken breast and return the rest of the bird to cook for a little longer, but this doesn't seem practical with a whole turkey.
Thanks!
Macaroni Soup with Ham for Breakfast in Hong Kong
My favorite breakfast in the whole world. They usually come in sets, so you can choose a breakfast drink (tea, coffee, 1/2 tea 1/2 coffee, Ovaltine, or Horlicks) and a big piece of crustless toast with butter, peanut butter and/or sweetened condensed milk. Heaven.
Gadgets: The Original Muffin-Top Tin
If you just dolloped circles of muffin batter on a regular sheet pan, do you think they might come out sort of like domed tops anyway?
There was an opportunity here to post the Muffin Top song clip from 30 Rock, and it was missed :)
Out of the Box: Dr. Oetker Ristorante Mozzarella Frozen Pizza
I really love Dr Oetker 4-cheese. And the brand boasts pretty impressive picture-on-box fidelity, don't you think?
Serious Cocktails: Gin-to-Vermouth Ratios in Martinis
I don't know the exact ratio used, but I've been known to ask for my martinis "wet." I like vermouth! Where's the fun in a glass of neat gin?
My belief is that people are ever more concerned with appearing sophisticated and making the "correct," tasteful choice--which generally ends up meaning the dryer the better, whether it's chocolate that's 1 million % cacao, or avoiding rieslings, or, in this case, dispensing with the vermouth. It's all very silly.
Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo
@maggiej That's really cheap! I had heard that they were cheaper this year but that's pretty considerable. Is $8.99/pound for whole, uncooked lobster, or...? I gotta check it out.
@DELICIOUS Heh. Careful there, or people will think I'm on Zapp's payroll.
Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo
@delilah I've actually only found them at a very expensive "gourmet" store we have called Dean & DeLuca. If anyone has any other sources for Zapp's, please speak up!
@jammin83 Come back and let us know how it went!
@daemon Yes, assuming your boss is wearing a laser monocle. Please.
Fashion Fail: Burger and Fries Outfit
It's by Jeremy Scott. Here's more from the collection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/nuffstyle/2183915088/
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
@dpisping I don't dispute that a wide range of dry wines, both red and white, can be used. But cab and shiraz are far more tannic than merlot, which could potentially lead to a really astringent sauce.
South Brooklynites--Question
The city's much cheaper, but if I want to stay in Brooklyn I like Cook's Companion on Atlantic. Plus it's right next to Sahadi's and Damascus Bakery, so I can pick up a slice of baklava on my way home :)
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
@realhound Shiraz and Cab are too full-bodied for a stew like this, which uses only wine for the braising liquid. Merlot is a lighter varietal and better suited to this dish.
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
@nasochkas Nobody is asking you to drink it. Not drinking it is kind of the point :)
@crankycakes Thanks for the kind words!
@borrais I would suggest that you use a favorite boeuf bourguignon recipe--say, this one, which has very similar ingredients--and simply substitute the Two-Buck Chuck.
@nicochi Thanks! I'm really glad it worked out.
Sugar Rush: Cherry Snow Cone at Num Pang
I tried this yesterday and they were so stingy with the syrup and cherries :( It's a nice flavor with good potential but they're not really executing it properly.
We also got a lime/lemongrass one, which was so sour and bitter that we threw it away after a few bites.
Ed Levine's Serious Diet, Week 80: Remembering Our Serious Eater Beagle Brass
I'm sorry, Ed. What a good, sweet dog.
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
@carriebwc That was a bad call on my part. In the UK, where I lived last, the two varieties are commonly available side by side. In fact, smoked bacon will work just fine.
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
@laurelie I hoped that I'd made it clear that my perseverance paid off but I guess not :) Hot plate cooking really is tough, though...takes eons for the thing to get hot enough and then even longer to cool it down again.
The Nasty Bits: Southern Fried Gizzards
I've never had gizzards any other way than confit-style or in Chinese watercress soup (those were duck gizzards, I believe). But I have Southern-fried innard experience with chicken livers, marinated and breaded much as these are, but bigger and meatier.
Word Coinage: 'leopard spotting'
What with all the upskirt leopard-spotting, this is starting to sound like an over-cougarization of the pizza lexicon.
Laura Ling's Special Soup Revealed, Sort Of
There's nothing herbal about watercress soup. It's, as @e_ting says, "tasty and consomme-like." If it's a traditional Cantonese watercress soup it'll start with a broth of pork bones and contain duck gizzards, too. It's so popular that Campbells actually makes a special watercress and duck gizzard canned soup just for the Asian market--or used to, as I can't find it on the website anymore.
Jamba Juice's New California Flatbreads: We Ate Them So You Don't Have To
(a) Surprised "Californication" pun has not been made in some form.
(b) They're not even flat. Not. Even. Flat.
Sam Sifton as New York Times' New Restaurant Critic; Serious Eaters Should Be Thrilled
Oh, he is such a wonderful writer. So, so good. I was getting all weepy this morning because I was going to miss all of Frank Bruni's flourishes and kapows...so this is perfect and wonderful and grand.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@Adam
haha - thanks.
I can't believe I mispelled that! ;)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@Kenji: Just fixed the title — peave to peeve. You're welcome! ;)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@finsbigfan
Hey - just take the MARSCAPONE and spread some of it on your BRUSH-ETTA!
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
I'll just sit here sipping my EXPRESSO and wondering what to do with that container of MARSCAPONE.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
TV cooks who pronounce paprika with the extra "a" in there; i.e.,
pap-a-rika (you know who you are Paula Deen, et al!)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@michele humes
Thanks for the correction - I guess I'm equally guilty!
As for the aioli/mayo thing, I've worked in restaurants where we'd call something aioli, even if it had no garlic whatsoever.
Moreover, adding a tiny smidge of garlic to mayo doesn't make it into an aioli - it's just a garlic-mayo, which is not the same as aioli. That's like saying adding a drop of oil to a cup of vinegar makes it into a vinaigrette - it doesn't. These things are defined!
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
while we're on the subject of mispronouncing stuff, i'm going to use this forum to announce how much it irritates me when everyone pronounces Brett Favre's name the wrong way. totally off topic, i know :)
it's Fah-Vrah. not Far-Vah.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Aluminum is pronounced differently in the UK beacuse we usa a different spelling and it has an additional syllable al-u-min-i-um.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Oregano is often pronounced differently in the U.K. vs. the U.S. along with basil and herb. Aluminum is the one I find amusing because there seems to be an extra syllable thrown in there in the U.K. I think it may depend on just where you live.
Tomato/tomaato, potato/potaato; let's call the whole thing off...
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@michele humes
Really? Are there other examples in the French language where a double L makes an "L" sound instead of a "Y" sound? Can't remember any of the few years i took in high school. Anyhow, it's the extra "n" that really gets me - like the extra "L" in chipotle.
And yes, mayo and aioli are different things. That was my point! Chefs are often too chicken to write "mayo" on the menu, so they use aioli instead because it sounds fancier.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@phenoderr - I know the correct spellings/pronunciations of those words - what I wrote was how they are (incorrectly) pronounced by certain chefs. :)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
But uh...marscapone is spelled mascarpone, and chipolte is spelled chipotle. ;-)
Technically the "correct" (or dialing even further, the historically accurate) pronunciation of chipotle is "chee-poh-til." But "chee-poht-lay" is correct using the common rules of Mexican Spanish as understood in modern times. To me saying "chee-poh-til" is the same as using Victorian English...it's outdated.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
This is not good. Nearly every turkey I've had in the past 10 years (unless I cooked it myself) is waaaaay too salty. This cannot make that trend better. I "brine" my turkey in the same thing I baste it in: a knarley mix of bacon grease (rubbed lovingly inside/outside/forced into every crevace) and orange juice. No extra salt added. Baste every 30 minutes or so while cooking. Turkey comes out juicy, the skin is crunchy and tangy and perfect (according to my friends who like the skin best - not me) and the stuffing even soaks up some of the flavor. And those of us who have not been inured to the excess salt of a junk food diet can eat it without soaking it in fresh water first. Of course, my vegan wife is not so thrilled, so I ask my friends to store up bacon fat for me - no bacon frying is one of the compromises (but not without benefit - she makes the best curries you could ask for).
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
I've brined and fried and the bird was great. Recently I've brined but added a little herb stock That is bay lea,f rosemary, basil, celery, onion and garlic simmered for 20 minutes then cooked and added to the brine along with half a cup of sugar. I brine over night in a big stock pot on the back porch when the nighttime temperature is in the high 30's or in a cooler if it is warmer (I replace some of the water with ice. It is melted but still cold by morning).
I cook the bird breast side down on a V rack with no stuffing (except an oinion and a celery stalk and maybe an apple) 450 degrees for 15 minutes and then down to 330 degrees. I use a convection oven . I turn the bird onto it's back (carefully) for the last 20 minutes to brown the breast skin.
The result is crispy skin all over, moist tender meat and because the exposed back cooks more quickly than the breast which is on the bottom, the white and dark meat are both cooked perfectly
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
You know, I have done the same as Mr Brown. However when I make my gravy I degrease some of the juice from the roasting pan and pour it into the "Dressing" Pan this gives me the flavor that I crave minus the fat. Try it you will like it!
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
I've never experienced a texture issue so radical as the one you describe - to have fresh turkey resemble "deli" turkey. The texture is plump and juicy and exactly like a regular turkey breast except the moisture is not cooked out of it. If you'd like to try brining, grab a supermarket chicken and have a go at it before the big day.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Does this type of brining technique give you texture like smoked turkey breast? Like the kind you get with prepackage/sliced turkey breast? There is something to be said about naturally moist Turkey...
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
By cooking at 275-300, I mean cooking in a deep fryer with peanut oil.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@Jim O
I actually did one like that today. I did a full breast with skin on, brined for about 8 hours. I marinated it (injected) with a sweet and hot marinade (maple syrup, garlic, cayenne pepper and a few other things) then cooked it at 275-300 degrees (I find cooking hotter than that burns the skin, and I love the skin.) for about 5 mins per pound (also checked internal temp for 145 degrees). It was amazing.
El Cocotero: A Venezuelan Neighborhood Restaurant That Fills A Need
The Hallaca plate sounds crazy because it is eaten in Venezuela only in Xmas. I guess it's a one time indulgence. As a Venezuelan, I would feel totally weird eating hallacas even in November. It's like having a Thanksgiving meal in July.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Interesting... I love this tutorial. That meat looks amazingly tender. e cigarette
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
So I deep fry my turkey's and I've never bothered brining them before as they tend to come out pretty moist as it is. I'm definitely not past trying it to make a good thing better but my concern is if this would have any impact to how a turkey fries.
Anyone tried it before?
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Check out the following website for an alternate salting method which is more suitable for smaller cuts of meat rather than for a 25 lb. turkey...
http://steamykitchen.com/163-how-to-turn-cheap-choice-steaks-into-gucci-prime-steaks.html
Some great chefs still believe in massive salting and rinsing as opposed to brining, even for large cuts of meat. But for steak and chicken breast in particular, I've noticed a very apparent increase in flavor. The salt initially draws the water out of the meat and then 30-40 minutes later, it sucks the salty liquid into the center. By rinsing off the exterior, you are ensuring that you won't be eating 90% of the salt. The meat is perfectly seasoned after this, no more salt is needed.
You're right about the importance of internal temperature. 140-145 is perfect for poultry. Pork and beef can be served slightly at less temps. Do yourself a favor... throw out those "pop-up" thermometers that come with your turkey. They are the main reason the majority of home cooks have dry turkey on Thanksgiving since the seal that breaks to signal cooking is complete only does so at 180 F+ degrees. The government is playing it about 15 degrees safer than their 165 F recommendation, even though 140-145 is perfectly safe.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@twolefthands
Wait until next friday!
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Kenji, if you are opposed to brining: How do you prepare your turkey?
Recent Posts
Eat for Eight Bucks: Curried Chicken Skewers with Lime-Apricot Glaze
Posted by Michele Humes, September 1, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Best-Ever Salad for Leftover Meats
Posted by Michele Humes, August 25, 2009 at 4:30 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Shrimp Rolls with Homemade Chive Mayo
Posted by Michele Humes, August 18, 2009 at 9:30 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Coq au Two-Buck Chuck
Posted by Michele Humes, August 11, 2009 at 3:45 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Squid Noodle Salad with Fragrant Garlic Topping
Posted by Michele Humes, August 4, 2009 at 3:40 PM
Meet & Eat: Joe Bayley, Winner of Last Night's 'Chopped'
Posted by Michele Humes, July 29, 2009 at 6:15 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Japanese Fried Chicken and Two Simple Salads
Posted by Michele Humes, July 28, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Spaghetti all'Aglio e Olio with Marinated Summer Vegetables
Posted by Michele Humes, July 21, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Cook the Book: Cheddar and Chile Bread
Posted by Michele Humes, March 6, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Gravy Cheese Oven Fries with Roasted Garlic
Posted by Michele Humes, March 5, 2009 at 3:15 PM
Cook the Book: Four Grain-Honey Bread
Posted by Michele Humes, March 5, 2009 at 1:00 PM
Cook the Book: Rustic Cyprus-Style Herbed Olive Bread
Posted by Michele Humes, March 3, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Cook the Book: Michael Laiskonis’s Dark Chocolate, Peanut, and Caramel Tart
Posted by Michele Humes, February 27, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Eat for Eight Bucks: Gai Pad Krapow (Thai Basil Chicken)
Posted by Michele Humes, February 26, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Cook the Book: Charred Sea Scallops with Smoked Sea Salt
Posted by Michele Humes, February 26, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Cook the Book: Braised Halibut with Asparagus and Wild Mushrooms
Posted by Michele Humes, February 25, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Baked Oysters with Fresh Thyme and Sweet Garlic Butter
Posted by Michele Humes, February 25, 2009 at 12:00 PM
Cook the Book: Le Bernardin’s 'Crab Cakes' with Shaved Cauliflower and Dijon Mustard Emulsion
Posted by Michele Humes, February 24, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Cook the Book: Le Bernardin’s Tuna Tartare 'Sandwich'
Posted by Michele Humes, February 23, 2009 at 2:10 PM
Cook the Book: Almond Gnocchi with Lamb Ragu
Posted by Michele Humes, February 20, 2009 at 1:15 PM
Recent Favorites
'So You're Saying People Will "Tweet" What They Eat for Breakfast?'
Posted by Adam Kuban, March 10, 2009 at 5:20 PM
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Kenji, you'd need either an i before the double-L or an e or y after. "Maillot de bain," bathing suit, is pronounced mah-yo; "chantilly," of course, is chohn-tee-yee.
I have this theory that the "balantine" hybrid word came about in part because of Ballantine's whiskey.
Re: mayo, I guess I'm saying that the offending aioli might actually have the teeniest smidgen of garlic in it. Oh I don't know.