Serious Eats - seriouseats.com

Kenji,

I thought I'd push back on a few of the generalizations you make in this and prior columns, not only about vegans but about food production in general. In no particular order...

First, to say "you won't find TOO many vegans driving SUVs," and similar statements, assumes that this ill-defined population of "vegans" has adopted a sweeping moral imperative that is simply not felt by all members of that population. Who knows what all vegans think about carbon emissions? Maybe that SUV gets 50 miles to the gallon? As prior commenters have mentioned, it's not like vegans are saints - or meat-eaters sinners. To paint a monochromatic picture of the environmentally-sensitive vegan is tired and makes conversation less interesting.

Similarly, saying "smart vegans" would counter that you don't need to kill an animal to use it in sustainable food production makes me uncomfortable. What's a dumb vegan? Someone who has an unappealing justification for foregoing meat?

I'd be interested to hear more on your position that faux-meats are not good for the environment. The Elsevier link you posted is sign-in only and I can't gather much from the abstract. Any more info you've found in researching that idea?

And not to go on, but I am a food policy nerd after all - the idea that the meat that we're eating is from pasture-fed cows who spend their days grazing and fixing nitrogen for us is just wrong. It would be great if we were all eating small amounts of sustainably grown, pasture raised beef that was beneficial to the environment - but we all know that that is not the situation in developed nations today. I would say there is only a tiny minority - if one at all - of vegans/vegetarians that would advocate for a completely vegetable-fed world in which ruminant animals roamed wild. Similarly, I have never heard the argument that having a farm animal around to eat grass and poop fertilizer is "exploiting" that animal.

Something I've been mulling over throughout your last few posts is that if a long-time vegan or vegetarian were writing this column, I doubt there would be such a tenor of loss or disappointment in the discussion of culinary options available to them. Yes, they would have had more experience making vegan food fun and delicious. But they would also likely have a strong ethical reason for making the dietary decisions they have made. (I recognize this is also a generalization - but as a longtime vegetarian with many longtime vegetarian friends, I have had myriad conversations on this topic.) Recognizing and considering those ethical decisions might make this month more of an intellectually challenging experiment, and do justice to the many ethical reasons for adopting a vegan/vegetarian lifestyle.

It would be great to see this column turn into an exploration of why a vegan diet is becoming more appealing to more people, and what the benefits are of that diet - rather than primarily a culinary approach that highlights the lacking ingredients and sad restaurant experiences of a vegan.

All that being said, I hope this continues to be an active conversation amongst all SE'ers! Veganism is real and important, and it does make an impact, and the reasons for removing animal products from one's diet are complicated and personal. Keep it up! :)

Grisha, in fact that entire report is about sustainable agriculture. "Agroecology," as defined in that study, is a set of farming practices meant to maintain the biodiversity of nature while still allowing for productive farm activity. Among the paper's enumerated qualities of agroecology include "recycling nutrients and energy on the farm...integrating crops and livestock...diversifying species [in ecosystems]..." and so on. These are actually much more nuanced farming practices than those dictated by the USDA Organic certification. The conclusion of the paper is that agroecology can be very highly productive and restorative to the land, but policies must be implemented to allow these types of faming practices to be affordable and profitable for farmers.

Perhaps you were confused by Estabrook's use of the word "organic" in his article. I think he was generally referring to sustainable, low-input, high productivity farming. The use of the word "organic" leads the reader to think he's talking about certified Organic, but in the context of his article it's clear that he is using the word more generally. His citations include papers on USDA Organic as well as other internationally-recognized types of sustainable agriculture - like agroecology.

Estabrook is a rigorous and well-read author - while he certainly asserts an opinion, his citations are important and respectable papers. Perhaps it is not only ideology that would drive someone to believe in sustainable agriculture, but rather examination and consideration of hard facts.

These three farms are certainly doing good work, but growing food while living in NYC is just one type of farming lifestyle. Drive just a tad further outside the city, to the rural growing areas of upstate NY, and the story changes dramatically. A beautiful video, but not representative of the diversity of farming life.

@BeerWeezil: Actually, the government's industry ties and consequential perpetuation of unhealthy dietary recommendations is one of Guthman's key jumping-off points for a larger discussion of lazy regulation and the opposition of government and nutritional science!

@Meat guy, digital - I'm sorry for the lack of clarity and vague wording. The reason the McRib drew attention to this issue is because McDonald's sources its McRib pork from Smithfield. As noted in that article, Smithfield had set a 2017 deadline for removing gestation crates from its operations, but recently revoked that promise due to financial considerations.

@hungrychristel - Thank you! Comments like yours are the highlight of MY week :)

@Rhetor - Hahaha, thanks for that great connection!

SO excited!!

@emilydev - Great question, and the difficulty of figuring out the source of outbreaks perpetually leads to confusion and panics. The most common method I read about was asking the patients about what foods they had eaten to find a common meal component, and then conducting lab samples to be sure that the sprouts were the source. Apparently a huge number of the first serious cases or casualties were individuals who had all dined at the same restaurant - but it took the powers that be perhaps a bit too long to finger sprouts as the contaminant.

PVD props! I actually went to Al Forno for the first time recently, after having heard about it a gazillion times from a gazillion Rhode Islanders. I have to say, I wasn't thaaaaat impressed. The grilled pizza was quite good, but the main dish I ordered was very oily and the other dishes weren't worth the hefty price tag. However, the desserts were really outstanding. Clearly that is their strength - I was glad we ordered four different sweets!! :)

I'm drinking a mug of Good Earth Chai right now! It's one of my favorite teas - their stuff is great.

@quirkzoo - So true, that is one of the toughest critiques of fair trade foods. Farmers do not always reap the benefits of increased prices on the consumer end. And it is important to note that the purchase of fair trade items does sometimes breed consumer complacency - an unquestioned belief that just by buying "ethical" foods, we are doing enough to change the food system.

Wow. Those are almost shockingly unappealing photos. If Robyn can't make something look good, odds are it's REALLY NOT GOOD.