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The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
@stratusgd
chefRObert is right - bacteria can be killed at much lower tmperatures. Pasteurization of milk takes place in temps as low as 145 degrees fahrenheit, and you can go even a couple of degree lower provided you give it enough time (30 minutes at 145 kills 99.999% of bacteria)
Also, the center of the turkey breast is not too much or a threat in terms of bacteria - it's the exterior that matters more, and that gets well above 145. Brining the turkey or salting it will also reduce bacteria count.
At the end of the day, if you want to be by the books and roast your turkey to 165, using this method of making it into an even shape will still give oyu better results that just roasting a turkey whole, so if you've been roasting whole turkeys to 165, give this a go, and you'll probably be happy with the results.
Lasagna
@allot
In lasagna recipes that call for ricotta, I almost always substitute cottage cheese that I process in the food processor to a more ricotta-like texture. Doesn't break as easily, tangier, more flavorful.
But if you go with ricotta, as others have said, eggs are essential to keeping it from breaking.
For watery tomato sauce, it could just be your tomato sauce is too watery to begin with. Does she cook it down?
It might also be that she is overcooking the lasagna noodles before assembling the dish. If the noodles are overcooked, they won't absorb any excess moisture, so it'll all just pool up in the dish. Have you tried any recipes that call for no-precook noodles? I think they give you a better final texture.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@Adam
haha - thanks.
I can't believe I mispelled that! ;)
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Recent Posts
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 20, 2009 at 8:30 AM
Turkey Stuffed Turkey with Gravy
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 20, 2009 at 8:25 AM
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 19, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Seriously Meaty Turkey Burgers
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM
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The Burger Lab: Turkey Burgers That Don't Suck
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM
The Burger Lab: Bacon Attack!
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, October 30, 2009 at 10:30 AM
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Recent Comments | Response to Comments
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
@Aya
You're right - there was one year when the turducken was moist, but that took a heck of a lot of work to get it that way.
Short version:
The problem: chicken is inside duck is inside turkey. Chicken needs to cook to 145, duck is better at 125, turkey needs to be 145.
Solution:
1. Bone out chicken, stuff, wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 145.
2. Bone out duck. Stuff with cooked chicken. Wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 125.
3. bone out turkey, stuff with duck stuffed with chicken, sew up, roast in low oven until 145. Remove from oven and rest
4. Roast in hot oven until brown and crisp.
5. Carve and serve.
See? Pain in the butt.
@KevinB
The problem with the stuffing is that even if you precook it, juices from the turkey drip into it while the turkey is roasting, so you still need to get it to come up to at least 145 before you can pull the turkey out, which means taking the turkey a little higher.
Of course, as always, if you've been doing something for years and are happy with the results, then that's all that matters! It's a heck of a lot easier than all this rigmarole I put my bird through anyway...
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
@stratusgd
chefRObert is right - bacteria can be killed at much lower tmperatures. Pasteurization of milk takes place in temps as low as 145 degrees fahrenheit, and you can go even a couple of degree lower provided you give it enough time (30 minutes at 145 kills 99.999% of bacteria)
Also, the center of the turkey breast is not too much or a threat in terms of bacteria - it's the exterior that matters more, and that gets well above 145. Brining the turkey or salting it will also reduce bacteria count.
At the end of the day, if you want to be by the books and roast your turkey to 165, using this method of making it into an even shape will still give oyu better results that just roasting a turkey whole, so if you've been roasting whole turkeys to 165, give this a go, and you'll probably be happy with the results.
Lasagna
@allot
In lasagna recipes that call for ricotta, I almost always substitute cottage cheese that I process in the food processor to a more ricotta-like texture. Doesn't break as easily, tangier, more flavorful.
But if you go with ricotta, as others have said, eggs are essential to keeping it from breaking.
For watery tomato sauce, it could just be your tomato sauce is too watery to begin with. Does she cook it down?
It might also be that she is overcooking the lasagna noodles before assembling the dish. If the noodles are overcooked, they won't absorb any excess moisture, so it'll all just pool up in the dish. Have you tried any recipes that call for no-precook noodles? I think they give you a better final texture.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@Adam
haha - thanks.
I can't believe I mispelled that! ;)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@finsbigfan
Hey - just take the MARSCAPONE and spread some of it on your BRUSH-ETTA!
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@michele humes
Thanks for the correction - I guess I'm equally guilty!
As for the aioli/mayo thing, I've worked in restaurants where we'd call something aioli, even if it had no garlic whatsoever.
Moreover, adding a tiny smidge of garlic to mayo doesn't make it into an aioli - it's just a garlic-mayo, which is not the same as aioli. That's like saying adding a drop of oil to a cup of vinegar makes it into a vinaigrette - it doesn't. These things are defined!
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
@Tombolo - you could also just go with the second approach, making the breast "log," and serving turkey rilletes or crisp turkey confit on the side.
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
@Tombolo
Turkey confit is great - almost as good as duck.
The forcemeat can be made in the food processor. Just chill the meat well, and grind it in batches of about 1/2 pound at a taime, pulsing the processor as you go. Won't be quite the same, but will still work.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@michele humes
Really? Are there other examples in the French language where a double L makes an "L" sound instead of a "Y" sound? Can't remember any of the few years i took in high school. Anyhow, it's the extra "n" that really gets me - like the extra "L" in chipotle.
And yes, mayo and aioli are different things. That was my point! Chefs are often too chicken to write "mayo" on the menu, so they use aioli instead because it sounds fancier.
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
@Charm
haha - thanks, you're right!
I guess a writer misspelling words is even worse than a chef mispronouncing them.
Another peeve: when chefs "adjectivise" nouns. Like "truffled".
Also on the list: chefs who say "aioli" when they really mean "mayonnaise." Just call it what it is!
Serious Green: Go Heritage and Local with Your Bird This Thanksgiving
@Tressa - Wow! Those "normal" birds look better treated than any that I've seen. They get to hang out outside all day?
Was that label meant to go with that photo, or are those some kind of heritage bird as well? Most of the standard turkeys I've seen are white, kept in tiny barns, and usually missing a lot of their feathers (especially on their breasts, since they drag on the ground).
I do also have to disagree with your assessment that heritage birds have more fat. Neither supermarket turkeys nor heritage turkeys have much fat at all. Heritage birds do have darker meat, on the other hand, and more flavorful meat. Their breasts may look skinny, but the flavor is a lot more concentrated.
We did a tasting of a dozen or so heritage birds at Cook's a couple years ago. Some of them were great. I wish I could remember now which one I liked best, but unfortunately I can't recall...
Last year I had a fantastic turkey from Tom Biggs of Four Corners Farm in Rupert, VT. Highly recommended!
Kenji
The Burger Lab: Turkey Burgers That Don't Suck
@SkinnyFatty
Yep - roast it whole in the skin, kinda like you'd do when making baba ganouj. The idea is that you want to retain some of the moisture in there. Modern eggplants are not bitter at all - especially the small one called for in this recipe, so you don't have to worry about salting and pressing them. If I wanted to give them a denser, meatier texture, then I'd do what you do: slice them, salt them, wash them, press them, then cook them.
That said - I didn't actually try it the second way. Perhaps it would work as well. If you give it a go, let me know!
Kenji
Seriously Meaty Turkey Burgers
@skinnyfatty
Look at the response in the original post.
The Burger Lab: Turkey Burgers That Don't Suck
@jujyfruit
Thanks! Those ingredients are really great. Actually, during the course of writing this recipe, I did a quick test at home while making broth from the leftover turkey carcasses. I made a couple side-by-side, once with straight-up turkey, and one with just a little dab of marmite thrown in at the beginning of cooking. It really makes a big difference in the overall savoriness of the finished broth!
Serious Cocktails: Are the Speakeasy Bars Getting Old?
Sorry, this is going the opposite direction from your request, but a quick rant. Speakeasy's: Getting mighty sick of'em. Particularly in NY/Brooklyn. I went on a pub crawl down Washington in Crown Heights/Prospect Heights that took us to Weather-Up (or something like that). As soon as we stepped foot in the unmarked door and saw the throng of hipsters and mustachio'd, vested bartenders, I couldn't help but roll my eyes and give a "damn - not another one" under my breath.
The difference is that now that it's down to a formula, the new places don't even try that hard. Sure, it looked like all the prototypes (many of which are great), but the bartenders weren't that fantastic, and the service left something to be desired (as in, the bartenders were joking around, throwing stuff at each other, and generally not acting as a speakeasy bartender should, I.E., well-trained, respectful, and attentive).
There's room for more, but only if they are as good as they should be, and not just another bar with a speakeasy shellac.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@twolefthands
Wait until next friday!
Is Mayo Making a Comeback?
@mdeatherage: no need to take me any more seriously than the next serious eater... (p.s., that mashed potato recipe is Dave Pazmiño's, not mine!)
One yolk can easily emulsify a full two cups. There's actually enough lecithin in an egg yolk that once you have a stable emulsion started, as long as your ratio of water to oil is correct, you can make a huge quantity of mayonnaise with a single yolk. I've done as much as two quarts, and I've heard you can do more (this is just hearsay, but I believe that most commercial mayo manufacturers do way more than that in order to keep down the cost of the most expensive ingredient: the egg yolk). The key is to add oil until it looks like it's about to break, then add water to fix the ratio. Just alternate back and forth and you can keep going until your food processor is full (or your whisk-hand has fallen off).
The Food Lab: Perfect Boiled Eggs
@bgruber
Thanks to SeriousEats convenient comment subscriptions, I get comments forwarded to my inbox, so yep. Still reading them.
As for the answer... em... because Cook's Illustrated readers like their salmon more well-done than I do?
shh... don't tell Chris!
Is Mayo Making a Comeback?
@mdeatherage
Actually, hellman's doesn't even contain chemical stabilizers (unless you count the lecithin in egg yolks). There's some EDTA in there, which is what prevents it from oxidizing (the main problem with homemade mayo, and why Hellman's lasts longer than homemade), but that's a preservative, not a stibilizer. As far as mass-produced products go, Hellman's is way up there on the "purity" scale with Häagen-Dazs!
And I'm with you - I almost always have some form of homemade mayo in the fridge (be it mayo, aioli, or burger "sauce"). Countless uses for the stuff. Actually, I just used some mayo today because I ran out of eggs halfway through breading a batch of chicken cutlets. A little mayo/mustard/flour batter works great as the "sticky" layer in breading.
Video: 'Look Around You - Water'
@roboppy
shite! I must have stolen my perfect eggs post idea from this video!
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@lemonfair
without the proper (read: expensive) lab equipment that finewinedine was talking about, it's tough to gauge the actual intake of salt. But the finished bird certainly tastes much saltier than an unbrined bird. I would guess that for at least the outer layers of the turkey, the salt content is pretty close to, or a little less than what you have in the brine (because there are other dissolved solids in the turkey). Maybe 4-5% for the first half centimeter of meat or so would be my guess. But that's all it is - a guess, so take it with a grain of salt (or a drop of brine).
For plastic garbage bags, eek - I should know this, huh? I guess I can't really answer either of your questions. But I think you're right - to be safe, you should probably use oven bags, which are specifically designed to be food safe.
Marmitmight work in a veggie burger. I haven't explored them too thoroughly yet, but in my mind, I'd like a veggie burger to taste of vegetables, and not try to imitate meat. That said, some marmite may well give it a slightly more savory flavor to stand up to the normal accompaniments that go with a burger. It's definitely worth a shot.
Kenji
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@hmw0029
I've never tried it with turkey, but I've tried injecting a chicken with melted butter in the past. I wasn't a big fan. It doesn't help keep the meat juicy - if you take the meat beyond 150 degrees, it dries out no matter what, so what you end up with is dry meat surrounded by butter. It still has that awful chalky texture in your mouth. It also just makes the bird taste like butter, instead of like a bird. It's kind of like grinding butter into your hamburgers. It adds some flavor and some fat, but in the end, it becomes a weaker expression of a burger.
For that reason, I'm actually even personally opposed to brining turkey in general - it ends up juicier, but you have more diluted turkey flavor. But to each their own - most people who have tried brined turkey swear by it.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@meat guy
wow - that's interesting to know re: butterballs . I guess the name used to make sense!
I'm working on a recipe for a turkey burger right now, and adding hydrolyzed veg protein and yeast extract are definitely on my list of tests. It's amazine what a difference a little yeast extract can make in the meatiness of your finished dish. It works great in stews and sauces as well (you can buy it in the international aisle - Vegemite or Marmite)
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@Burger365
You're right. Adding flavorings to your brine has a pretty minimal effect on the flavor of the meat. That's because the meat has a higher affinity for the sodium ions than it does for most common flavor compounds. When you put your meat in the brine, salt will selectively migrate into the meat, which basically means that there is less room for the other flavorings.
If you want to maximize marinating/brining, you should do two separate soaks. First, marinate your meat in a salt-free flavorful marinade. After that, brine it as usual. The flavor will come out much more distinctly.
Also, bear in mind that unless they are in solution, flavors won't enter the meat. So adding whole herbs to a marinade will have minimal effect unless you first bruise them, chop them, or otherwise rupture their cell structure so that they release flavor into the liquid.
The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
@Trilby
you can do it in a large vessel in the fridge, or in a double layer of oven bags or garbage bags (set them inside a roasting pan to catch any leaks).
You can also brine your turkeys in a cooler out of the fridge. Just add enough ice packs to keep it cool through the night. Ice packs work better than ice cubes because they won't dilute the brine as they melt.
@meat guy
I think some manufacturers do inject oil into the breasts (I've never heard of hydrogenated oil or margarine though), but butterballs don't. It's just a brine:
These are the ingredients from their website:
Ingredients: Turkey, Water, Salt, Modified Food Starch, Sodium Phosphates, Natural Flavorings.
As for a cooked chuck roast, I think it's more than just the fat - it's the conversion of the collagen in its copious connective tissue into gelatin that keeps it well-lubricated in your mouth. That conversion takes temperatures of at least 160 degrees, and plenty of time to take place. I think the statement that "fat makes things juicy" is a pretty common misconception, though I haven't yet done any rigorous tests to prove it. But I've certainly eaten larded meats that are dry, and well marbled steaks that are dry, and fatty salmon that is dry. If something is overcooked, all the fat in the world won't save it - unless, like a chuck roast or a pork butt or a short rib, there is plenty of connective tissue to make gelatin and lubricate the dried-out muscle.
Lasagna
@ allot and mollykate... thanks. you wont be sorry. I generally make a double batch making sure to use whole milk, generous salt and pepper as well as a smidge of nutmeg. Off the heat I add in a few handfuls of good aged romano, give it a wisk and call it good. I let it cool for a good 15 minutes before I assemble the layers so it doesnt overcook the pasta.
@ ChefRobert...dude, Im not sure who you think you are dealing with, exactly. You can add "chef" to the beginning of any name you want and that doesnt make them one. You most certainly DO NOT need ricotta for a lasagna and bechamel is most certainly NOT better suited just for mac n cheese. (Uhhhh, any facebookers out there want to re-itterate this comment by my foodie pics on my catering/personal chef page??? I believe there are quite a few photos to substantiate my comment). THAT being said, the texture of bechamel is far more appealing than that of ricotta. You can make ricotta in 10 minutes but why in the hell would you want to? Its wet. Its gross. Its generally flavorless. Bechamel makes a delightfully creamy addition between the layers and when ladled on the final noodles as the topping, browns and gets that oh so cheesy deliciousness that everyone loves.
Also, while I enjoy TK very much, there are no onions in sauce. EVER. Can I get an amen from the dagos and waps in the room? We are straight off the boat, baby.
Bechamel rules. Onions and ricotta do not. Period.
Love,
ChefChelleyD01
p.s. @ Joyyyy...yes. it is, only we prefer to be Varsity...never the JV.
Lasagna
Bechamel. Yum. I'm absolutely doing that next time, @chelleyD. Thanks for throwing that out. :)
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Why worry about all this $#!+?
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
"Whip cream" drives me INSANE.
Lasagna
Or maybe it could be where you throw the lasagna down on people who have pissed you off?
Lasagna
Is that where you throw all the lasagna on the floor and then competatively piss on it?
Lasagna
@Chefrobby I have made all kinds of lasange (I would be willing to bet I am a bigger lasagne snob than you can imagine LOL) the reason why I am speaking ever so on topically is because someone posted a recipe with ricotta in it. I did not post the recipe. Lasagne again is a personal thing.
I don't have to throw out the name of someone else's recipe to prove mine.
It is proven. I stand firmly behind it and also as Chelle says beshamella.
Money on cheese is not an issue we can afford cheese LMAO
Also this sentence from your post "just have faith in knowing that he would'nt publish any bad recipe in his books" Oh give me a break, you never found a problem with a recipe because it was published in a book?
I must be older or have more cookbooks than you. I find them all the time.
Oh how very nice. Funny thing happened on the way to the food blog, cookbook authors constantly show on their websites their flubs. So although again I love your hero worship, it is divine, put up a shrine to the guy and get over it. Also if the cheese is expensive for you we can take up a collection.
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
I think I'm going to go for this, but there's one problem. I have to have drumsticks for my dad. So I'm thinking I'll get a couple of turkey legs to cook along side the bird. Any tips on working out the timing? Maybe start the legs a little ahead of the stuffed breasts?
Lasagna
Holy internet cliques, batman. What is this, a junior varsity cheer squad?
Lasagna
I heard one of Lynn Rossetto Casper (@Splendedtable)'s pet peeves is that people spell lasagnA not lasagnE (lasagne is correct)
and just noticed Jerzee spells it "lasagne".
it adds authenticity :-)
Lasagna
@chefrobert~ That would be "two cents". Just saying.
Lasagna
Haha! Apparently it IS a pissing contest for Someone. Stick with Jerz and Chelle. And Gator Pam. You won't go wrong.
A quote from ChefRobert~" I don't blindly follow him, but I have faith in him."
Isn't that what faith is?
Lasagna
Oooh! I almost forgot my favorite sauce trick for the ziti - add a tiny touch of cinnamon. And I mean tiny - open your thing of cinnamon, check to make sure the little shaker top is on (hahaha who hasn't botched that before), and give ONE downward shake into the sauce. Then put it away.
Lasagna
In my experience, using no boil noodles and letting the lasagna rest for about 15 minutes after coming out of the oven clears any liquidy issues up. Plus, letting it rest allows it to cool off enough to be edible. Good luck, lasagna is comfort food at its best, your friends will be thankful!
Lasagna
Oh come on guys! This isn't a pissing contest!
@Jerz - THANK YOU for finally tipping me off to what is making my lasagna too watery sometimes! Too much sauce! NOW, I will be able to show restraint. : )
Lasagna
Bechamel is better for thickening macaroni and cheese than for use in lasagna. You really need soft cheese for the traditional flavor of lasagna. I think the problem with the watery-ness commonly associated with using ricotta results from improper preparations or maybe just cheap ricotta. Everyone has their own way, but that's just my humble two sense.
Lasagna
@chellyd01
I love bechamel, but I have always wondered where to put it. Do you leave out the ricotta completely and put bechamel in its place?
that is absoutely the appeal of ziti, that i can make it lactose free without too much extra work. ahhh decisions!
Lasagna
@allot - I haven't put spinach in the ziti yet, but it would probably be good. I would just make sure to get all the moisture out that you can and add it after the pasta cooks in the sauce. I don't make much lasagna, but when I do baked ziti where the noodles are boiled in water and not the sauce, I sometimes get the sauce separation issue, so I've stuck with the SE recipe method to avoid that, and I feel like getting the excess moisture out of the spinach would be key along those lines.
As for your lactose intolerant friend, you could scoop some of the baked ziti mixture into a smaller, separate baking dish before adding cheese and cream to the rest of it in the big pot and cook them in the oven together. It shouldn't be too much extra work and will probably be just as delicious.
Lasagna
1 word, people. Bechamel. Its the worlds answer to disgusting watery, grainy ass ricotta. I make a shitload of lasagna all of the damn time. Period. You will never catch gross ricotta nor cottage cheese (WTF???) in my lasagna and I can safely say it works. I know this because of the hundreds and hundreds of repeat orders I get for it every month.
B E C H A M E L.
Lasagna
Baked ziti is an awesome option. I have taken the lasagna and sauce recipes I posted above, combined them all together with raw ziti instead of layering for lasagna and baked, adding the provolone, mozzarella and romano on top, just like on the lasagna. It's not quite as elegant a presentation as the lasagna layers, but the flavor is nearly identical. You need to be sure you have plenty of sauce for the ziti to cook.
It truly is the same recipe, only jumbled together. Much easier to assemble. 8)
Lasagna
that ziti looks awesome! oh yeah, the vegetarianism is complicated. mostly no meat but dairy and eggs. a lot of no pork or beef, and only sometimes chicken depending on its preparation. lots of just picky in general. i am making my friends sound unpleasant. really it is just a way to cover all of the dietary restrictions, since we have no vegans, we can do baked pasta easily with vegetables. i do have one friend who is lactose intolerant, i figure i will just save some of the plain sauce for him. @joyyy have you tried putting spinach in this?
Lasagna
You did just that. Posted to hear yourself talk. You didn't contribute anything other than your tempermental opinion. Happy cooking... if you can :)
Lasagna
Hit a nerve, did I?
There really isn't much else to contribute- Jerzee addressed her culinary concerns and Gator Pam gave a wonderful veggie recipe. Unlike some (ahem) I don't post simply to hear myself talk. Cheers and peace out!
Recent Posts
The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 20, 2009 at 8:30 AM
Turkey Stuffed Turkey with Gravy
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 20, 2009 at 8:25 AM
Pet Peeve: it's "ballotine," not "balantine".
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 19, 2009 at 9:44 PM
Seriously Meaty Turkey Burgers
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM
The Burger Lab: Turkey Burgers That Don't Suck
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The Food Lab: Turkey Brining Basics
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Start of a family portrait - 2 grandparents and a father.
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The Burger Lab: The Fake Shack
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The Fake Shack (or the Shack Burger at Home)
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The Food Lab: Perfect Boiled Eggs
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Recent Favorites
The Burger Lab: Turkey Burgers That Don't Suck
Posted by J. Kenji Lopez-Alt, November 13, 2009 at 9:30 AM
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The Burger Lab: Bacon Attack!
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The Food Lab: Animal Fat Mayonnaise
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Video: André Soltner Makes an Omelet
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The Burger Lab: The Fake Shack
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The Food Lab: Perfect Boiled Eggs
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About J. Kenji Lopez-Alt
Website: http://www.goodeater.org
Location: goodeaterkenji
About: I love dead animals, live vegetables, and hamburgers.
Favorite foods: The pig
Last bite on earth: Anything but my tongue.

@Aya
You're right - there was one year when the turducken was moist, but that took a heck of a lot of work to get it that way.
Short version:
The problem: chicken is inside duck is inside turkey. Chicken needs to cook to 145, duck is better at 125, turkey needs to be 145.
Solution:
1. Bone out chicken, stuff, wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 145.
2. Bone out duck. Stuff with cooked chicken. Wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 125.
3. bone out turkey, stuff with duck stuffed with chicken, sew up, roast in low oven until 145. Remove from oven and rest
4. Roast in hot oven until brown and crisp.
5. Carve and serve.
See? Pain in the butt.
@KevinB
The problem with the stuffing is that even if you precook it, juices from the turkey drip into it while the turkey is roasting, so you still need to get it to come up to at least 145 before you can pull the turkey out, which means taking the turkey a little higher.
Of course, as always, if you've been doing something for years and are happy with the results, then that's all that matters! It's a heck of a lot easier than all this rigmarole I put my bird through anyway...