Does anyone have any suggestions for decent and reasonable food for a gaggle of Atlanta high school kids coming to NYC to see plays and take an acting class? Including chaperones the number is 26. They are staying at the Edison; one of the plays is at the Roundabout, the others in the theater district. Please don't mention Tad's.
My family was blessed with an invitation to a pizza party at Jeff's home last month. Great theater.
Thanks for the suggestions. Carmine's and John's are on the itinerary, as are the Stage Deli and Ellen's Stardust Diner. I'm sure they'll have a ball.
The Five Seasons locations in Atlanta are swell, with the same care taken in the kitchen as in the brewery. Twain's in Decatur, GA, brews decent beer and has a good hometown vibe.
L'Atlas is a fun Moroccan place in the 5th for couscous and squab. The fondue/raclette joints on Rue Mouffetard are also very family friendly.
Ok
All romance aside. I need some info. Gas fired deck ovens, wood burning ovens, and coal burning ovens. Can I get peoples pros and cons on one or all of these type ovens. The only thing I DON'T want to hear is that pizza can ONLY be produced by one type oven. Thats nonsense, because I can pick out a top 20 pizza in the USA that is produced in EACH type oven.
But I am really interested in what the good and bad points are in each oven, especially from a professionals pov, though ANY pov would be vastly appreciated. Thanks for all the info ahead of time.
Canerosso- RED DOG!!
Wood burning oven, 00 flour.....good. When I worked in italy, the pizza flour was weak, very weak, you really had to coax it. But the Italian style pizza, small, quick cook, minimal toppings.....that type of flour works well.
I think for our New Haven and New York style pizza, you need something with more strength, the pizzas are topped heavieer, they cook a bit longer and they are bigger.
Youre right, the dough SHOULD NOT be complicated, I think a biga, poolish, old dough flavor can be APPROACHED by retarding and using a well aged dough. When my dough has been in the refer for 3 days MIN, and its blown up quit a bit, messy and oozy, a circle is near impossible, but the taste and texture can't be beat.
You use sea salt, huh? I use kosher, the regular is just to bitter. I was reading some "professional" how to open a pizzeria books, I don't know where they got their info from, but boy, are they off...
I have a friend who went down to the San Antonio area and opened a wood burning pizza shop, from the reviews hes aceing it. I'm glad he was INTO pizza.
A key ingredient in making a restaurant succeed is having an owner that is passionate about pizza - not just making a system to make money (although you need that too). Jeff obviously has passion in spades - the big challenge will be is if he can scale the dough recipe and maintain consistency doing 200-300 pizzas per day, every day.
I own a very popular wood-burning pizzeria in the Dallas area. I've been screwing around with poolish forever and have not been able to make it work well for small quantities, never mind large quantities - but I'm no engineer. Dough shouldn't be too complicated. For us: Double Zero flour, tap water, sea salt, fresh yeast. Mix 15 minutes, rest for an hour, portion into balls, retard in fridge 24-48 hours.
And this guys blog is really informative. I enjoyed reading it immensely.
Adam
I BUILT a wood burning oven, using plans from a guy in California. I read a few books and built away, little by little. I had a GREAT time. I learned a lot.
It retained heat so well, that if I fired it up for pizza on Monday, on Wed, I still cook slow cook brisket (225 degrees). I moved and the new owners knocked it down. Shame really.
I think he really likes tinkering with the OVEN as much as he does with the pizza. Figuring out the why is obviously a real big turn on for him.
And from what I know about bread baking and such (I know a LOT compared to civilians, but not that much compared to bakers) he is spot on with a lot of his science.
But for pizza, a sponge, a biga, a starter, old dough are something 99% of the pros don't do. And, from what I hear, the main NY guys, all have a simple pizza dough recipe. Bread baking, UNLIKE desert baking such as pie dough, is, IN A LOT OF WAYS, OPPOSITE in method.
If you read MOST books on baking pizza, its WAY, WAY OFF when it comes to method. I know that MOST pizza guys in New Haven DON'T neccesarily use a HIGH GLUTEN FLOUR. I also know that the dough is mixed COLD, not warm, and mixed, portioned and popped in a retarder for a couple days MINIMUM. No proofing, no warm rising, no nothing. Fresh yeast, flour, water, salt, maybe sugar, ice and mix for 12 minutes. Portion and refrig. The dough MUST be old, slow risen cold, and soft and wet. Dough, if used to green will be easier to shape, but harder to stretch, will burn because a lot of the sugar has NOT been eaten by the yeast and will NOT have developed any REAL flavor as of yet.
You know, Gabagool, you bring up a good point. Jeff really has explored all the science behind the pizza, and it seems to me that a really big part of perfecting a pie is the oven. He lives in Atlanta, in a house, which I'm guessing he owns, so my question would be: Why doesn't he quit futzing with a standard home oven, which it sounds like he's had to replace and repair several times, and just invest in a backyard wood-burning pizza oven?
Hey
I think its great this guy loves pizza so much. BUT....its like ALL civilians.....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to complicated. And ANY ANY, ANY, ANY, ANY, pizza guy who reads this will think the same. Like a lot of guys NOT in the restaurant industry, they make it more than it is. Like Alton Brown, science means sh*t when it comes to cooking. You want a GREAT pizza?
Learn a basic cold dough, water, yeast, salt, sugar, flour. Buy GREAT QUALITY products, get a proper oven and you are in business.
I agree on all those things, but I really just wanted to point out that all three of Roundabout's theatres are in the theatre district. =)
John's is a good bet. Not the best coal-oven pizza in town, but very solid nonetheless. It's in a big space, too (an old church), so they will be able to fit a party of 26 easily. Virgil's would also work, though it will be more expensive. If they would be willing to try spicy Szechuan food Szechuan Gourmet is great, and it's on West 39th Street, so it's well located.
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