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@cryptoterp: I could possibly help, depending on the timing, but as I stated earlier, you pretty much have zero shot.

Briefly, w/r/t the other cases you cited (and without reading them), if the specific statute defines a term, here "public places," the court has to go by the definition in that particular statute and is not supposed to look to definitions elsewhere unless the statute itself unclear (this is true for a number of reasons).

Also (and more fundamentally), re-read Medina. The statute is written broadly for a very good reason (maybe I'm ascribing too much intent to the people who wrote it, though): it gives cops easy grounds to articulate reasonable suspicion and to possibly start searching suspected perps for other goodies like weapons or drugs, all while asking them questions. A judge is unlikely to rule in your favor because that would give other criminal defense lawyers like myself a powerful precedent to attempt to suppress the goodies discovered after this type of stop, and no one wants that to happen.

If you're still interested, Kenji can get my info/email through Robyn. Hope this clarified some things.

Noah

@Kenji I'm willing to bet you have way more faith in the "point" of the legal system than the lawyers. There's not going to be a lot of nuance when a judge or judicial hearing officer can dispose of a case quickly.

Yeah, access is definitely key. It wasn't clear from your post when you said it was a three story brownstone... is there just one tenant?

Of course the case I cited is not exactly the same case. Think of it more as setting a goalpost. For obvious reasons cases like these are rarely litigated, so there are few (possibly only one) goalpost in place. More important is the discussion on the "sweeping" way in which the court should/would read the statute.

Sorry Kenji, I sympathize, but it looks like you're going to lose.

As you said, the statute defines a "public place" as: A place to which the public or a substantial group of persons has access including, but not limited to....

The briefest of Westlaw searches revealed People v. Medina, 16 Misc.3d 382, 842 N.Y.S.2d 227 (Bronx Sup. Ct. 2007). This may be the only case interpreting "public place" within the statute. There, the defendant, Andujar, was arrested in the lobby of his apartment building while drinking beers with friends. After his initial citation for public drinking, Andujar was also found to have a switchblade and a loaded gun, which I'm sure you had on you too....

Andjuar argued that the apartment lobby was not a "public place" as defined by the statute. In smacking the defendant down, the court first noted that although "lobbies" are not specifically mentioned in the statute, lobbies (and even stairwells) are considered "public places" in other, similar statutes (i.e., marijuana possession and other forms of disorderly behavior).

Most importantly (and here's where they really get you), the court reasoned that the "sweeping definition of 'public place' that is contained in the ordinance itself" means that it should be read broadly, because "including, but not limited to" is a "broad and expansive statutory phrase," from which the court can infer that a whole bunch of other types of places are "public," including apartment lobbies. Since the front stoop of an apartment is almost certainly even more public than a lobby, you're likely screwed.

Of course, there's always leeway to argue, but your ultimate disappointment may not be worth the fight.

Noah

25th. DO IT!

Dammit Robyn, I would have liked to have seen one of these when you were still in Crown Heights/Bed Stuy.

Brindle Room. Not grass fed but dry-aged, which matters much more to me.

Nice interview.

Adam, I really don't get your love for Zeitzeff. Overpriced and underwhelming. Brindle Room is where it's at... check it out.

So excited. Strawberry shake, large fries, Philly cheeseburger and a nap.

ESNY: I noticed that too. I'm assuming they're packed tighter due to the high fat content?

Monday

7-8 more months? Don't tell me that!

This place is fantastic. Didn't know about the bean khachapouri though. Will have to try that next time I go.

Get a steak or the mutton chop if you're going to Keens for the first time. The burger can wait.

I've been twice for lunch. They have a great deal were you can get a salad or larb, a main and a side of sticky rice or vegetables for $9.

The food's been great, but I'm not getting the full experience. I need to get a group together and order half the menu.