Can You Cook What You've Never Eaten?
I spent 5 hours caramelizing onions in an effort to produce a perfect French onion soup. I've eaten lots of onion soup in a variety of locations, including Paris, and I know what is good and what is not and I've had both. But what about those dishes that sound good but I've never eaten? Paella, pho, laksa, Cajun prawns, jerk chicken and a variety of other foods are things I've made and enjoyed but I've never eaten an "authentic" version so I don't know how close I've come. Is it possible to make a good version of a food when you have no basis for comparison?
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22 Comments:
Absolutely possible.
You just need an authentic recipe and ingredients.
CJ McD at 2:59PM on 10/03/09
I've lived in San Francisco twice and visited twice. The first three times, I was either too young or too naive and never tasted cioppino, and then I ran across a recipe in a newspaper; it looked so luscious in the photo that I just had to try it. Living in Chicago, the shrimp, crab, mussels and halibut (I think that's what I used, but it could've been monkfish) weren't as fresh as just-caught, but I sure did like the way the cioppino turned out and I've been making it ever since. On my last visit to SF, I finally had cioppino at Cioppino's on the Wharf and have to say that their's was better, but mine was really close. Living so close to Seattle, I can now get really fresh seafood, and I bet I could give Cioppino's a run for their money. I smell a throwdown.
Bouillabaisse, though, is gonna be another story. I use Julia Child's recipe, which I don't doubt is authentic, but I don't see a trip to Paris in my future anytime soon, so I'll probably never know if mine, which is really good, tastes authentic.
And what's authentic anyway? Have you had authentic lasagna cooked by someone's nonna? I haven't, but I think mine is really good and authentic. My pho, curry and jambalaya? Those are another story--they're just okay. I'm not doing something right to get those dishes to the next level, but I'll keep trying.
betteirene at 5:08PM on 10/03/09
I just made seafood crepes for my wife for her birthday. Prawns and salmon poached in lemon, butter, white wine and fresh citrus, in a sauce of creme fraische and dijon mustard with lots of black pepper, sauteed mushrooms and asparagus. I don't eat seafood in general, so I didn't have any. She was pleased, though. Although it might be because the kids are with the grandparents for the weekend...
NotAmerican at 6:04PM on 10/03/09
I made "apple pie" for years. I had seen it made on tv and I had all of the ingredients in the recipe. It wasn't until I went to college and tasted what pie actually tastes like that I realized what I was making was pretty gross.
I work better when I have some basis for comparison. I can work from a recipe and try something new, but when it comes to dishes that have a specific taste (like desserts or paella) it's nice to have an idea of what the end product should be.
gingercookiewithlime at 6:58PM on 10/03/09
It is possible to make a good-tasting version of something, absolutely. Not sure about authenticity, though.
Yukiyummy at 8:05PM on 10/03/09
In my opinion a good recipe and the right ingredients will almost always taste good if cooked correctly.
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AyeEat at 8:16PM on 10/03/09
This is a really interesting topic. I think that you can like the way the dish comes out, but it is possible that it isn't totally authentic just like @yukiyummy said. There are a lot of recipes that are just adaptions that may sway from the real deal. When I want to make something that I've never tried I either research it thoroughly or use a recipe from a chef whose recipes I trust and is known for cuisine from that area.
Also keep in mind that a dish doesn't have to taste one way. My mom is from Italy and is one of six kids. All of her sisters cooking taste different but are all the real deal. As long as the same types of flavors are being used...its all good
rumanddiet at 8:51PM on 10/03/09
Possible to make an excellent dish? yes. A good authentic version (like copy?) of a dish? maybe, but that entirely depends on where you are getting your directions. There are pinches and dashes and handfuls and dollups. Plus, many ingredients have a variety in themselves like curry powder or cinnamon or vanilla or milk. Some people bother to specify and others don't. (Now, to be honest, this also has happened to people making the dishes from the authentic culture, so how authentic is the authentic, who the heck knows?)
Either way, try a few recipes and see which ones you enjoy. Unless you are putting them on a restaurant menu claiming they are authentic, no one minds as long as it tastes good.
blizcheetah at 9:21PM on 10/03/09
This is a really hard question to answer. The problem is not whether you can follow the directions of an authentic recipe (and of course we'd need to define, in specific, what an "authentic recipe" means), but whether you understand the cultural and regional aspects of the recipe.
To the casual American restaurant goer you can call any fried risotto ball arancini. But that's not authentic. Sure, the item is really just a ball of fried rice. But to be authentic you need to have mozzarella and tomato in the middle. And even then it gets harder to define because you dial down further into regional cooking and an "authentic" arancino contains peas or a ragu. If you leave the Sicily region and head north there are suppli, which are basically the same idea.
I think there's too much weight put on the word "authentic." The only question that needs to be answered is: Is it tasty?
phenoderr at 2:32AM on 10/04/09
I had seen gnocchi made lots of times, on tv or the internet and it always looked good. So I thought I would try to make it myself. With a basic recipe I rip apart my kitchen attempting to make it, the end result was alright. But I really had nothing to compare it to... did I do it wrong or did I just not like gnocchi? I've since then made a point of ordering it in a restaurant and it turns out my creation was not totally off base but I could have made some improvements.
Maybe technique is harder than following a recipe? For instance, I've also never had a 'good risotto'.. so I'm worried that if I try to make it on my own what it might turn out to be. Let's say I make one that is edible and flavorful but totally way off on technique, then I serve it to someone who 'knows' what it should be ... I don't know that would be frustrating to me.
jlweber at 10:12AM on 10/04/09
Can you make a good dish from a recipe you've never tried before? Yes you can, given the right ingredients, tools and technique. To make it truly authentic it helps to understand the culture of the food your cooking, to have a little knowledge as to why the things are put together the way they are, and lastly what is happening (from a food science standpoint) when you put things together in such a way.
What I like to do at times when I am making something for the first time is to go about it in a socratic sort of way... for instance if I had never mad a hamburger, I'd ask myself, What is a hamburger? What makes a hamburger a hamburger? Ground meat in a patty form on some sort of bun... Ok now what? Does it have to be round? Could it go on any kind of bread? What would go in/ on the meat?
Start asking yourself some questions as to the how, what and why, and you'll probably come up with something fantastic. You may want to use this advice sparingly, otherwise you may have tonights dinner next August sometime! But it helps understanding your food. Don't ever be afraid to try. Not one person on here has the distinction of being flawless in every dish they have ever made... well except for me of course! Good luck!
Pavlov at 5:00PM on 10/04/09
i think that "authentic" is all in your head. what one person considers authentic may be totally different from another person. recipes that are old and have been around for years are staples because they are good no matter what cook makes them, and allow for creativity and expression with in that culture. so if you follow a good recipe and it tastes delicious to you, that should be all that matter s.
listener at 5:17PM on 10/04/09
I don't worry a lot about whether the food is authentic if I'm cooking for myself, family, or friends - just whether it tastes good. I'll follow a recipe pretty exactly the first time if the food is something I'm unfamiliar with and that looks good to me. I wouldn't want to disrespect another's culture, but most of the foods I'm likely to attempt have become embedded in American culture in a way that is often already different from how they would be made or taste authentically in their cultural home.
lemonfair at 6:34PM on 10/04/09
@gingercookiewithlime - what was your apple pie like before? I'm sure it wasn't that bad!
yayfood at 8:50PM on 10/04/09
I think you can make a dish that comes out the way the recipe intends, if it's a good recipe. Whether it's authentic (whatever that means to you) depends on the source of the recipe. And it also depends on the ingredients. If the original version calls for things that can't be found here and the American-centric recipe uses substitutions, it won't be exactly the same.
It also depends on equipment. If the original requires a clay oven over a roaring fire in a humid atmosphere, you aren't going to get the same results in your home oven.
Technique also plays a part. If there's some new technique involved, it helps if there is detailed instructions, and better yet, photos. A lot of old recipes rely on you knowing what something's supposed to look like and feel like. Which is why so many people have problems with things like bread and pie dough that rely a lot on the look and feel of what you're making.
I usually like to have some idea what my end result is supposed to be before I launch into a complicated new recipe. But I've been known to make things that I've never eaten before. The first time, I follow the recipe religiously, but the next time I might tweak it to taste better to me. Maybe no longer "authentic" but if I/we like it, that's all that matters.
dbcurrie at 9:05PM on 10/04/09
@yayfood - Well pie dough tasted like dried solid flour. And I didn't know about using different type of apples for different things so I used red delicious (you can stop making an "ew" face now). It was edible but it didn't taste like the pie I make now.
Now I know what a crust should taste like and that it shouldn't be a chunky mess but a flaky mess. And I know that different apples will crumble/melt differently. Honestly, going to college and eating in a cafeteria really opened my eyes about American food. Pie was a whole new experience to me.
gingercookiewithlime at 9:11PM on 10/04/09
@gingercookiewithlime - I hear you! I grew up baking almost every day after school by myself. I loved making pastries - especially cinnamon rolls - but I thought flaky crusts came from bakeries only, since mine always came out rock hard and crumbling. I had no idea I was over-mixing the dough and shouldn't have softened (or melted) the butter. So my parents were constantly being subjected to little cinnamon roll stones and I just thought that's how they were supposed to be.
yayfood at 9:28PM on 10/04/09
@jlweber - I definitely sympathize with your gnocchi making efforts. A big issue with gnocchi is that they naturally offer very little flavor, but being little light pillow dumplings can absorb flavor amazingly well. Like when you throw them into a saute pan and put it over a flame that makes the pan flare up...if you eat them all you'll taste is that nasty charred flavor.
Gnocchi are extremely technique heavy. I've now made hundreds of thousands of gnocchi and I know exactly how the dough should look and feel before I start forming. But even Saturday when I made a batch of about 200 there were at least 30 that turned out mushy and very very off.
phenoderr at 12:09AM on 10/05/09
@jlweber and @phenoderr - I first made gnocchi at an Italian cooking school in Tuscany, taught by an Italian chef. I have to say that I wasn't impressed with the result - an awful lot of effort for something that didn't seem all that tasty, even with the sauce. Then I made them myself, using a recipe from a respected San Francisco restaurant. The recipe really didn't work well, so I improvised and managed to produce something that was edible when paired with lots of proscuitto and parmesan. Then I too tried them at an Italian restaurant - and they were no better than the ones I had made. I think I just don't like gnochhi!
Bunnee at 10:13PM on 10/05/09
1 word - octopus. My husband had one shipped to me from Pike's Market along with other seafood. Never touched or tasted one, and cooked it to perfection.
prncs79 at 11:04PM on 10/05/09
I agree with CJ, who posted first on this topic...
authentic recipe and ingredients always help
Chef316 at 1:44AM on 10/10/09
Cooking instincts are one topic not yet spoken on. Recipes, even very detailed ones are just an ingredient list followed by some rough directions for combining. An innate understanding of how they combine and proper technique is the key.
I am of the opinion that GREAT cooks are born, not taught. This is the kind of opinion that gets all the rookies up in arms. Of course I come from a line of cooks, on both sides of the family. Some things in life come easy for me, math, drinking, and especially cooking are on my list. Your list might be different.
No matter the region or cuisine the process is very similar when I am approaching a new recipe. I do extensive research on MANY variations of the recipe. The technique must become understood BEFORE you start your first burner. Otherwise you are looking to lists when you should be deglazing. Proper technique is crucial for all food. Over the past year I have attempted and blogged foods from five continents and been blown away with the results.
Authentic is trickier. As an Italian American I have always been very interested with Authentic Italian cuisine. I do my absolute best when it comes to recreating regional variations. But alas without living in the area and having access to the regional ingredients, I am just making a similar dish, not the same dish. Does that mean my hand made orecchiette are not good, of course not. Does it mean that because I am using broccolli rabe instead of the local variation of rape that mine is not authentic? Yes.
climbhighak at 1:59AM on 10/10/09