Reusing Marinade: Ick Factor vs. Why Not?
I've seen opposing viewpoints on boiling a marinade and using it in a sauce, baste, gravy, etc. On the "don't do it" side of the equation is the ick factor that raw meat has been sitting in this potion for a period of time, coupled with safety rules about cross contamination.
On the other side, though, there are plenty of recipes where the meat is cooked with all of its marinade. How is this different than separating meat and marinade and heating them separately?
Also, unless you are rinsing and drying the marinated meat, there's a bit if the marinade clinging to it when you cook it, and that will drip into the pan, and few people would think twice about using it as a sauce or gravy.
If there's an "ick" factor in the fact that raw meat was in contact with the marinade, why isn't there an ick factor about the raw meat itself that is now cooked? If that's okay to eat, why is the marindade, boiled afterwards, anymore icky than the pan drippings from the meat, or the meat itself?
I can see the logic in not saving the marinade and using it over and over, because each time you're diluting it and increasing the amount of meat juices, so it could spoil just like a jus or gravy could spoil. But I'm talking about taking the marinade and boiling it, and using it to baste the meat or to flavor a sauce right away.
As far as cross-contamination, there's no "cross" going on. You're putting the very same juices back onto the meat that it came out of. Those bits of leaked juice are the same as the juice that's still in the meat, right?
Now, for the record, this isn't something that I have a lot of angst about in my kitchen. When I'm marinating something, I'm usually doing it in a tight container, so there's little marinade, and generally I'm not using expensive ingredients. And I can see why this would be banned in foodservice.
But after seeing conflicting instructions from two different "professionals," it made me think. What's your opinion?
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27 Comments:
if you're cooking the marinade I dont see the problem. imho
huneybumper at 3:26PM on 07/03/09
This is something I've worried about too, and it has come to mind recently because of something I saw on Food Network. On TNFNS, one finalist was rebuked for telling the camera that a marinade could be reduced and cooked down to a sauce. However, just a few days after that on the South Beach cookout special thing, one of the personalities (I believe it was Paula Deen but it might have been Flay) said you could do just that.
In my opinion, as long as you got the marinade up to the temp that you would have to get the meat up to, and as long as you handle the marinade as if it were raw meat, there should be no problem.
nightowl at 3:26PM on 07/03/09
@nightowl, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about. On the one hand, someone gets told that you're going to make everyone sick, and on the other, it's fine. Same with brines. Some recipes say you can boil and save it, while others say to toss it right away, along with all the other stuff the hazmat team has to take away.
I suspect this is one of the things that people repeat what they've been told, and the science has been lost somewhere.
It might also depend on whether the people are in the foodervice industry, because rules for restaurants and commercial kitchens are stricter than what you'd need at home.
dbcurrie at 3:39PM on 07/03/09
I saw the same TNFNS when Tyler Florence rebuked Tamika for telling people to boil the marinade and I gotta say I believe Chef Florence is wrong. If you boil that marinade there is no reason you could not use it as a sauce. We don't boil marinades where I work and that is because of the stricter rules operating in the food service industry but there really is no reason other than an abundance of caution. At home I have often boiled and used marinades as a sauce and I have never made anyone sick. So I vote for boiling for one minute and then use it as you like.
tapioca at 3:57PM on 07/03/09
I've boiled, poured juices back in, reduced and used marinades for years and never had anyone even have the slightest twinge (or not that they've ever told ME about!). Anyway, I don't see what the problem would be in a home kitchen, if you take care and bring everything up to temp.
duncan1205 at 4:04PM on 07/03/09
anne burrell did it on her show too.
andshewas at 4:05PM on 07/03/09
I am creeped out by raw meat juices so I put some that never touched the meat aside and use that. I always make a little bit more and it never touches the meat. How hard is it to do that? Not
Creeped out factor=0
JerzeeTomato at 4:31PM on 07/03/09
I've used reduced marinades as sauces many times, even though I know some bacteria produce heat-stable enterotoxins that can't be deactivated by boiling and/or by acid. I wouldn't use a marinade that sat at room temp for a while for this reason.
hmw0029 at 4:42PM on 07/03/09
Is Anne Burrell the Secrets of a Restaurant Chef chick? I like her show, a lot. She's so normal and lively. I'd have her over to cook with in my kitchen in a heartbeat.
nightowl at 4:52PM on 07/03/09
Do it all the time. I put alot of stuff in my marinades and just can't bring myself to throw it out. I boil it and sometimes add additional liquid or just leave it and use as a glaze. Never had a problem. I think it is said as a "cover my ass" statement as some folks will not boil it, get sick and blame it on whoever told them it was OK to do so.
finsbigfan at 5:12PM on 07/03/09
I think the problem is saving used marinade for a later use. Then you cross contaminate.
But using the marinade with the meat and boiling it down to a sauce should be ok.
I saw that on TNFNS and wondered why they were so pissy about it when I see it on cooking shows all the time.
gingercookiewithlime at 6:57PM on 07/03/09
I think they were so pissy on TNFNS because a good number of viewers would be likely to screw it up...not boil it long enough, not get it up to the right temp, etc. I mean, if you look at the recipe reviews on foodnetwork.com, there are a lot of clueless beginners out there, and it's probably a liability issue.
bojo14 at 4:40AM on 07/04/09
on TNFNS the "Tip" was that you could reuse the marinade for another cut of meat.... Because of cross contamination you should never do this. If you reduce the marinade as a sauce to use with the piece of meat you are marinading, I would suggest putting aside some marinade for that specific purpose and not use the marinade the meat was sitting in for hours.
Man, I can't believe @Meatguy hasn't jumped in on this one!... must be out looking for undercooked burgers! LOL
Pavlov at 9:08AM on 07/04/09
Kinda off the subject but it was funny watching Tyler Florence acting like a dick on that episode.
chardonnay at 10:28AM on 07/04/09
I don't reuse marinade. I didn't do it before I had a restaurant and I didn't do it after I had a restaurant. I tried cooking used marinade and the small bits of protein from the chicken breast solidified and turned white, creating a safe but hideous looking sauce.
I eventually began making two small batches of whatever I use as marinade. It made sense and it's always worked. I may have to cut the ingredients in the sauce batch a bit smaller or possibly even cook it (like if it has raw onion, etc.), or thicken it a little with corn starch; but I've never been comfortable re-using marinades that have been used for raw meat or poultry.
therealchiffonade at 2:02PM on 07/05/09
@chiff, your answer is a whole lot more logical than the argument that it's going to be dangerous to use. Yup, I can see how it might not look as appealing.
I usually don't use marinades as sauces, but it's mostly because I'm more likely to make a pan sauce or gravy from the drippings.
dbcurrie at 7:42PM on 07/05/09
Most of the times that I have attempted to reduce the marinade down for a sauce, I've come up against scum - the same goo that floats to the surface of stocks and soups. I'm thinking it's blood or protein that has leeched out of my meat - thoughts?
I've never had a problem with using it, but it's not just about bringing it to a boil - it's about keeping it there for a bit too.
shoneyjoe at 5:30AM on 07/06/09
I freeze it to reuse for something or other later on and then just toss it out when I find it in my freezer a year or so later. ;-)
phaelon56 at 9:22AM on 07/06/09
i really don't understand why people get sooo freaked out by raw meat and poultry in particular. It doesn't matter if it had a dozen raw chickens floating in it, if you boil the hell out of it, its safe. End of story.
Otherwise you'd never be able to use your knives again after cutting some raw chicken breast... the sterilization cycle on the dishwasher is just boiling water/steam. If you can use plates from your dishwasher, you can eat boiled marinade.
mh330 at 12:58PM on 07/06/09
The problem is that boiling water only goes up to 212F---not everything will be killed by that and going beyond that will result in varying types of candy if additional pressure is not applied, ie pressure canning. Still the primary thing you would be worried about would be bacteria which could form spores to survive the 212 and then grow out later. If using it immediately I don't see a problem but I wouldn't consider saving of it for later even in the fridge as all that is required is for those spores to "hatch", they don't need to be warm for that just in nutritious media. Of course you should also consider how the marinade has been stored, ie in the fridge the whole time. If there has been any exposure to room temperature you also have the additional possibility of toxins, some of which are also heat stable and can make you really sick, but the meat would also be contaminated in that case.
sally599 at 2:35PM on 07/06/09
The issue isn't boiling and reducing your marinade, there is nothing wrong with that, and nothing will survive that. The problem is in using a raw marinade that has already served with one cut, on another piece of meat. That is a serious no no. Overall though, the prevailing reason is CYA over aggressive sanitary policy.
@therealchiffonade: you supposedly own a restaurant, yet you have never used a chinois to strain particulate matter from your sauces? Hmmmmmm........
simon at 6:22PM on 07/06/09
When I make chicken adobo, I cook the meat in what is essentially a marinade of soy, rice wine vinegar, garlic, etc. I remove the chicken after it is done, and then further reduce/boil the marinade. Tastes great, and it's never made anyone sick.
I also thought the judges were wrong for dogging out the contestant on that issue.
Remander at 12:14AM on 07/07/09
@hmw & @sally: you two are the only ones on the right track. E.coli, for one, is a bacterium that becomes heat-stable (or heat-labile), which makes it resistant to boiling if left to ferment. There are several other types of bacteria that work the same way in raw meat, which is why, even if you cook spoiled raw meat to well-done, it will still make you sick.
I think it's not so much a function of how high a temperature you bring it to, but more how old the marinade is and whether it's been treated like raw meat itself. It can spoil really fast!
It's all science, guys!
djwackfriz at 9:13AM on 07/07/09
@dj - the amount of fermentation you are talking about would result in an odor so repellent that no one in their right mind would attempt to cook that down. For all reasonable handling of a marinade, which would be held in a fridge well below the propagating temperature of bacteria (37* C - 98.6* F) boiling for long enough to create reduction would be more than enough to destroy any bacteria that may be present. E. Coli is destroyed at 67* C, or 153* F. Boiling, even for a short amount of time, of a marinade that was kept below 98* F renders it perfectly safe.
simon at 1:32PM on 07/07/09
@djwackfriz and simon-
simon is right about bacteria getting killed by boiling.
my post was about the heat-stable enterotoxins that some bacteria produce. those toxins are proteins but are folded in a way that cannot be destroyed by heat--pressure cooker (121C), maybe, but not by boiling.
and, "heat-labile" means they are susceptible to heat.
hmw0029 at 2:30PM on 07/07/09
I've done it, but haven't been happy with the results. Blood/juices extracted from raw meat aren't the same as the juices from cooked meat. Plus, the blood can coagulate and create a funky texture.
Marinade ingredients aren't usually that expensive, so why not just prepare extra and make your sauce from a virgin batch?
schmonsequences at 7:13PM on 07/07/09
I do this all the time, use the marinade to baste the meat while it cooks. Cross contamination my @$$...as long as you got your meat from a trusted source and you handled and cooked it properly.
ryushin at 4:12AM on 07/08/09