Serious Eats - seriouseats.com

you okay, grumpy? i totally agree with you, but it seems like you needed to get that off your chest before your head exploded...something set you off?

Faux maple syrup? *shudder* Perish the thought! Only the genuine grade B stuff for me. And what is "plane corn syrup"? Corn syrup you serve on a plane?

One of the purposes of the compass mirror is to use as a distress signal.

For all of my food snobberies, I love me some butter-flavored fake maple syrup. Mmmm. And I'm not overweight. Sure, I question the implications of processed foods on our economy, environment, and health. But in my life, I'm the only one who can put those issues in their rightful places. And even though it's cheap, I only indulge in the fake syrup once in a while. About as often as I indulge in the expensive saffron sitting in the cupboard.

I'm a consistent advocate for eating more whole foods and teaching kids to cook for themselves (I teach English at an alternative high school in an impoverished neighborhood). But philosophies aside, I live in a reality that I must construct for myself. Mine includes an occasional burger (which I prefer to make for myself), store-bought crackers, and mostly fresh whole foods that I prepare for myself. And as much as I love food and obsess over it, it's not always the most important thing in my life.

My apologies for the typographical error. Plain corn syrup is cheap, yes? Not only can you afford it, you can afford a lot of it, yes?

The reason they put mirrors on the backs of compasses is so you can always see who is lost.

Let's look at the sliced bread most people buy at the grocery store. It is basically aerated goo. Once you eat it, it turns into a sticky paste. Worse, it has a lot of stuff in it that your digestive tract cannot deal with very well. Why do we buy it? Because it is convenient. Not so long ago, it was cheap as well.

As I have gotten older I have finally taken notice of what people do at the grocery store. Most of them do what I did when I was working full time and it is stupid. Why do smart people do stupid things? Among other reasons, they are failing to think at all. It is rather like owning a powerful computer and never using it for anything other than playing games or gossiping over the digital fence.

More often than not, grumpiness means having standards. I agree with your observations, and also blame stretch fabric, some feminists' denigration of housekeeping and cooking and this idea that cooking should above all be quick, easy and fun. Grrr...

I agree with GOM 100%. Keep up the good work.

@GOM - um ... was there a point to this? Also, posting this on SE is probably going to hit an audience of people eager and unafraid to make pancakes from scratch, their own burgers, decent breakfasts (oatmeal=yuck), interesting pancake toppings, etc. Also, you start this with "We do not really have to cook anymore." That's a misguided opinion. Many people do have the time but don't make it a priority, but there are some people who really are just way too busy, and I think being that busy/stressed out is probably as unhealthy as a store-bought diet anyways.

As for the questions themselves: I never have cookies in my house unless I'm making biscotti, I have a total weakness for a Wendy's burger, the only french fries tastier than those fried in my dutch oven or roasted on my grill are from the Potato Patch in Kennywood (pittsburgh), about once a week I make a fresh stock of breakfast burritos for my freezer since you couldn't pay me to eat oatmeal, there might be a little bit of store-bought granola in my pantry and a box of Cheerios (from when my mom visited, I let the diebetic eat what works for her!), I make a MEAN cottage cheese pancake, I haven't purchased bisquick since my sophomore year of college (~4 years ago), and since real maple syrup is so expensive, I mix it with some applesauce and fresh berries and simmer until reduced a bit - quite possibly my favorite pancake/french toast topping ever.

And don't forget about a complete and total lack of exercise.

I walk 20 feet to my car to sit in a cubicle punching computer keys all day then pay $40 a month to run on a treadmill every evening. Tha'ts just not the way we were built to work.

@joyy, An hour to two hour commute is typical and has been for a long time. I, on the other hand, worked in the construction industry and frequently had no real choice about the duration of my driving time. While it is true that is not necessarily necessary to have a long commute, I do believe people optimize as best they can. I always did when I could. Sometimes I would stay near the job and come home only on the week ends. This kind of compromise, though, often has a price of its own that is hard to live with.

Some people dream of a utopia where none of this is necessary. I know better. We will never be able to accomplish such a thing. Control on that scale just is not possible and it has failed everywhere it has been tried.

Oh, I agree with you that it is insane, or seems insane, but once you have bought a house and have the kids in a tolerable school you have to think about it more than once before relocating to place near your current job. Very few Americans stay with the same company for twenty-plus years anymore. In a lot of cases, they can't stay with the same company for twenty years the way my father and grandfather did.

If had my druthers I would never have left the farm/ranch/apiary, but the economics were what they were and I went looking for industrial work.

cookies, pancakes, hamburger and fries? When I want junk food, I go out and buy it. If I were to make any of those things at home, there would be left overs and where there are leftovers, there is big trouble. I am single with no kids and I am in the process of losing weight (40 lbs already). Leftovers mean temptation and weight gain - the above mentioned foods would not last a day in my house and I don't have anyone to share it with, not even co-workers. I will not make food like this from scratch nor will I keep most of the ingredients necessary to make them.

I have lost about 20 lbs in the last year, with about 50 more to go. The biggest issue was getting enough exercise and packaging my own lunch to bring to work (rather than buy from the cafeteria where I'd make poor choices because of long lines or low blood sugar). That and beverage choices. I like my wine. A lot. And it's very convenient to buy at the store. I suppose I could make my own (making my own soda has cut down on the amount I drink now, actually), but a girl has to draw the line somewhere!

I eat lobster over the sink. It's actually pretty convenient.

There are exceptions to every rule, Amandarama. If that is how you like to eat your lobster, more power to you.

Don't let your life get to the point where it just sucks. Be mindful before you just slump in with the status quo.

Think and act for yourself and.... get off that cell phone!!!

@joyyy, whatever the government does on this issue, we will all be in the same boat. Right now, the precise direction the government might take is not clear. Are you going to like it if they put a 100% surcharge on sugar? Are you going to like it if they suddenly decide to ration eggs? Or will you simply be satisfied to see the fast food joints put out of business? If they do put the fast food chains out of business, do you really think that the government will stop there?

I have not made an attempt to disguise anything. Quite the opposite obtains. I am trying to make things clear.

We would be so lucky to get public healthcare the way they have it in France. On that issue, I disagree with GOM 100%. Government is best suited to handle things like that. Profit motive is the worst solution for managing healthcare.

We all have an interest in food, this is true. I think that healthcare reform is already a done deal. We are going to get it. Whether I think it is a good thing or not is moot.

And, for what it is worth, there is already talk about increasing taxes on sugar. In other words, now that our odious political leadership has seen fit to place itself in charge of our health care system, how do you suppose they will run it? Ever hear the phrase, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"? Obesity is, at the time of this writing, the latest medical bug-a-boo.

Are you willing to let the government control the size of your belly, or are you going to do it? Who is responsible for the size of your belly? You or the about-to-be-hired bureaucrats?

I for one do not view our leadership as 'odious', and since I work in prevention, I feel that government taking a role in reforming health care (which done right, will ultimately lower costs, taxpayer and otherwise) has the potential to increase education and availability of prevention services, be it education on the ground or policy that makes preventative medicine, policies, and/or shifts in culture available and more affordable.

One could also argue that increased state taxes on cigarettes is unfair because we are all responsible for whether or not we smoke. That doesn't change the fact that government action at all levels has considerably reduced tobacco use, which is one step towards a nation of healthier communities - something that benefits us all in a variety of ways.

To assume the worst is moot pessimism in my book and I find it annoying that you're using something as amazing as the enthusiasm of foodies to push that pessimism on the rest of us.

@NYCEater, I'm with you. When I make cookies, I eat them much faster than cookies I buy. If I made bread, like my mom did, I would eat all of it while the house still smelled like warm bread.

@grumpy -
I'll b damned.
Someone views mass-marketed food in the same perspective as hungrychristel!

Within my resources and time-frame; I STRIVE to follows these rules:
- local as possible
- preservative free
- f n v - asap!
- low sodium, filler, starch and sugar
- no artifical sweeteners
- can I make it from scratch? (ie - salsas, dips, dressings)

I couldnt' agree more with almost everything you said.
And it's all thanks to my parents, really.

I thought I had it so hard growing up: "No hotdogs for me!" "no bologna for me!" "no dessert unless you finish your supper!"

well...I don't even like dessert anymore (I know its embarassing) unless it's a craving (like a grapefruit cake from brown derby or Oma's strawberry shortcake)---because they have that home-made flavour, ow no bother.

MOST OF ALL: I think the mistake people make is over-indulgence or eating too fast. I'm no dietitian but I've found that "savouring" food not only friggin tastes better but I can actually TELL when I've had enough.

MY GUILTY MASS-MANUFACTURING OF FOODS?
On lazy-days (not too often) I like the Frozen Lean Cuisine Spa meals.....*blush*....I know! The people at work look at me with all my homemade stuff and then point and laugh when I eat my LC!

My OH makes a darn good waffle syrup from scratch: no idea how.

until western society has come to this realization I'm sad to say that I'm almost CERTAIN this will get worse...especially since the little guy is gradually dying...:*(

@GOM - I did have a health class, and a brief home ec class. We learned almost nothing. My memories of home ec (late 90s) are being given the option to either boil or microwave hotdogs, and then we made boxed mac n cheese - I shit you not.

In my mind, that can be changed for the better with the nudging of gov/policy changes (see the earlier tobacco remarks). There is so much negative that I try to focus on what good has been done and work to get more of that done. It remains to be seen how things will actually play out - I highlighted the word "potential" eariler for good reason, good can come from it and so can bad.

@grumpy re: Obesity

This is a western-society plague that facinates me.
Don't give up GOM there's hope.
Just recently CBC announced that some Canadian/US scietntiests helped discover a hormone that has a major impact on obesity is one of two scientists awarded the lucrative Shaw Prize in Life Science and Medicine.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/06/16/shaw-prize-coleman534.html
The identification of the hormone led to research that showed some obese people have mutations to their leptin receptors.
So: obesity discoveries are being rewarded.

In my personal opinon; it all boils down to a social-structured health care system like France, Cuba or Canada. No matter what social-class, politial party or culture you belong to--your health is priority number one. After watching the Documentary 'sicko' I cried to think of the surprising state of the US health care system. Such an amazing, patriotic country: but missing something so important!!!

@joyyy, we got a very different health education when I was going to school. We had "balanced diet" drummed into our heads until I was sick of hearing about it. We were constantly reminded of personal hygiene and had our shortcomings pointed out to us when necessary.

We also had to run four laps around the track during P.E. and then did calisthenics after that. If there was time left in P.E. after calisthenics we got to play Four Square or Dodge Ball or softball, or even rag football. What we were not allowed to do was to wander around the school yard and squabble.

Being male, I signed up for Ag, but got stuck in Home Economics owing to scheduling conflicts. In that class we got more "balanced diet" drummed into us with instruction on how to cook said diet. It turned out to be one of the best things that ever happened to me.

I will admit that it is convenient, from a certain point of view, to have the government wave its guns and nudge people into line. After all the government can nudge you and you'll cough up more cash, right? They can nudge you and you will get into line for the draft. What choice will you have? I suppose if we are going to let the government nudge us over tobacco, we may as well let them nudge us away from the sugar bowl. Why not? It's all for the greater good and besides, it will be convenient.

Another reason why we are losing the battle of the bulge: as @joyy says, "government action at all levels has considerably reduced tobacco use". What do people put in their mouths when they quit smoking? Food, and plenty of it, if they are not very careful. I was never so thin as when I was single (no-one bringing contraband into the house) and using tobacco (an appetite suppressant and meal-ender par excellence). When I quit for good I made a conscious effort to have placebos and gum around, and managed to keep any weight gain to a minimum. But when the desire for nicotine abated - and chewing gum lost its appeal - that's when the mindless munching began. I've been fighting that battle, gaining and losing the same 10-20 pounds, for 27 years now. Effortless availability of food and a more sedentary lifestyle, as mentioned above, haven't helped the situation. But so be it - I would never go back to being a smoker.

Over the past several decades, we have become a nation with a staggering number of ex-smokers compared to other countries, who are only just beginning to dabble in smoking bans. I'll tell you the main reason why "French Women Don't Get Fat": Most of them still smoke.

Well, dbcurrie, there are exceptions to every rule, but anyone who does not find the baking of cookies and its aftermath a chore after the ten or twelve batches in two months is likely to be active enough to not have a problem with his or her weight.

What works for you may not work for anyone else, let alone the majority, but the government has no option but to apply a "one size fits all solution." The problem, assuming the government chooses to address it, is too big to address in any other way.

Who do you want responsible for what you do in your kitchen and when? Do you want to be responsible for that, or do you want a government agency to be responsible for it?

50+ posts later the joyyy v grumpy irony is setting in on me hahaha

At SE, I don't think I'm an exception. This is a group of people who like to cook and are probably more concerned about their nutrition/health than other groups you might have ranted this to. Thus, the "YOU do this and YOU do that" just rubs me the wrong way. As far as your political views, I come here to read and comment about food and cooking, not about politics. So I'm not going to play that game.

@joyyy, it really is ironic, isn't it? Glad to know you are enjoying the show though.

@dbcurrie, I apologize if I offended you, that was not my intent.

@hungrychristel, prior to violent video games, certain political activists and defense lawyers were blaming cartoons, like Bugs Bunny, for the violent behavior of juvenile delinquents. Before the cartoons got blamed, it was Rock and Roll music and before that it was the Jitterbug or something. When it comes to imposing government control, some will use any excuse, no matter how flimsy it may be. Both Republicans and Democrats are alike in this respect. I remember when one prominent Republican insisted that the move to put stannous flouride in our drinking water was a Communist plot. The intent was to control dental caries, but he drummed up enough fear that most water districts still do not use stannous flouride.

@GOM -- not your intent to be offensive? If that's truly the case, then maybe you should reconsider your writing style. Calling us all "boys and girls" and making assumptions about how we all eat fast food and store-bought cookies, we guzzle corn syrup, we have fridges covered with cereal, and we don't take the time to cook anything because we don't like cleaning up is offensive. Are there people like that? Heck yeah. But this is a group populated by people with an interest in food. Eating and cooking. Assuming we're all fat gluttons who have no idea what we're doing is offensive. You could have made your point a whole lot better if you hadn't been pointing fingers.

As for the political, it has no place here, and posting about food just to get into your political rant doesn't make it any better.

Just as a gentle reminder to all: while many illnesses can be caused by poor nutrition and a lack of exercise, it is perfectly possible to eat well, work out, and still become ill and need access to affordable healthcare.

Cooking does not automatically make someone reach a healthy weight: it can be used for 'good,' to give you more control over what you eat, but we all know people who don't eat fast food, cook, and cook less than waist-friendly foods! You have to make your strategies work within your lifestyle, biology, preferences, and there is no one solution to 'the battle of the bulge.'

Re: government intervention. While the government has done many 'bad' things regarding food, once again, you can never say all government intervention is for ill. The FDA, limiting the types of harmful chemicals and additives in food, food safety, and so forth are all examples of how government intervention can also be used as a tool for good.

"...there are exceptions to every rule, but anyone who does not find the baking of cookies and its aftermath a chore after the ten or twelve batches in two months is likely to be active enough to not have a problem with his or her weight."

This is just such a strange assumption, I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how you came up with it.

The last burger I ate was homemade (with buns from a local bakery). I make my pancake mix (as well as biscuit mix and cookies). I prefer to make my own french fries since I am particular about how they should taste.

I don't think there's anything wrong with eating out. I think we should distinguish between McDonald's and a local joint that makes everything from scratch/local products. I don't think convenience makes us fat or evil. I've always had to cook because it was cheaper (and easier for such a large family). We couldn't afford to go out or waste money on fancy cuts of meat (if we could afford meat at all).

I think the only time I never had to cook was in college. I lost so much weight eating at the cafeteria that my roomate's mother would bring us home cooked meals on the weekends because she didn't think we were healthy. Eating at home makes me gain weight. It's so easy to throw together some brownies or cookies whenever I want because I have flour and sugar and all the basic staples on hand. At the store I feel bad about spending three dollars on cookies instead of fruit so I don't buy the cookies.

@ GOP - Frankly, I feel that the posts I've read from you lately have been very condescending. It's easy to assume that the mass public is lazy and can't or won't cook but I think that's no appropriate to this forum. Yes a lot of people on this board are pros and have really put a lot of thought and effort into their culinary lifestyle, and some of us are still novices (I baked my first loaf of bread a few weeks ago). There's really no reason to insult us and talk to us like we're idiotic children.

I hope I've misunderstood your target audience and that you're just making a general rant instead of trying to piss everyone off. Perhaps in the future you can explain your purpose instead of just insulting?

My apologies to any and all who were offended. It was not my intent to offend, but to provoke thought. If there is any audience on this Earth for whom this subject is important it should be this one. People who participate in this forum are people who take food seriously. I know that. There are serious gourmets here. I should think that there is more than one professional chef here. There are likely restaurant owners here. Certainly there are more than a few journalists who specialize in covering the food industry here.

If you took what I said the wrong way, assuming that I was talking about you personally in my first two posts and not the public at large, rest assured that it was the public at large that I meant to describe.

I also understand that many would prefer to avoid politics on this forum. I agree that the subject does often lead to some unpleasant correspondence, but I do not see how we can escape this particular issue. Forewarned is forearmed.

Some of you seem to think or fear that I am preaching against health care reform, but I have seen that as inevitable for a long time. For one thing, most of the major employers in the United States are at their wits end with health care system now extant and want the government to sort it out.

Knowing that health care reform of one kind or another is inevitable, one is obliged to think about what will come next. Consequences of an action are often unforeseen simply because we do not think things all the way through. Many who participate on this forum will not only find their lifestyles affected by health care reform, but will also find their livelihoods and businesses affected by it.

Our political leadership is not reliable if left to its own devices. The dire consequences I have been talking about are far less likely if people let our leaders know in advance what will and will not tolerated. Remember that the bureaucracies charged with enforcing the legislation enacted by Congress interpret that legislation largely without congressional supervision. We will not know the full impact of any health care related legislation until after the sundry bureaucracies have written the Rules of Promulgation and subsequently begin to enforce those rules.

I don't understand what politics has to do with what I want to make for dinner. I purchase the foods I want to eat from where I want to purchase them. I go to the gym when I want and exercise for however long I want on whatever machine I want. If I'm unhealthy it's due to my genetics and lifestyle not some law. I don't see the sense in blaming the government for my own choices.

Now if they outlawed tomatoes or chocolate I might see the point in protesting...

The point is that this isn't the place for you to go off on what you see as political problems. If you want to complain and/or effectuate change, write your elected officials - not serious eats.

Re: obesity as a growing epidemic in this generation-- As a teenager, I can say from experience that the only true healthy education I received had very little to do with a "balanced diet." I took a home-ec-style class (paradoxically called "Nutrition and Wellness), where we prepared things like brownies, cookies, tacos, cinammon rolls, etc.

And then you also have the offerings in school cafeterias. I have never purchased anything from my school cafeteria (for three years) and have no intent to substitute lunches that I make myself for fried chicken sandwiches, pizzas, brownies, cupcakes, cookies, etc. There is obviously a serious discrepancy between the government's plan to instill in youth a healthier lifestyle and the execution.

I don't want to sound condescending, but there is clearly a need for education of the masses. Very few people really understand what they are eating (although I think it's safe to say this forum gets the quality of food very nearly perfectly), let alone that they may be unconsciously consuming twice or three times the correct portion size. In many cases, quality trumps quantity.

I feel that a large sect of American society doesn't care. Perhaps we do need a jolt of super-reality.

I can't stand government getting its fingers in yet another facet of my life, but if it takes taxing raw ingredients like sugar/corn syrup; all processed foods (Hamburger Helper, Jell-O, potato chips, processed deli meats, many frozen entrees); ALL restaurant food that generally fall under what is considered "unhealthy" (hamburgers, pizza, shakes, most deep fried foods like chicken, fish) at, say, 80% for people to do a cold reboot, then maybe that's what we need.

Or strictly ration the size of food being served or packaged -- outlaw Supersizing or bulk purchases of anything. Each person carries a "family card" that details how many servings of food products they are allowed per week and debits food groups each time it is used. I have a feeling that sugary snacks will have a huge black market. :P

Or a scaled monthly health tax on people according to their BMI, adults and kids included.

Additionally, the government should mandate that employers allow 1 hour out of the day in shifts to perform enforced exercise. The drawback would be that this may mean the avg person (40-hour workweek) being at work potentially 10 hours in a day, or fix the 40-hour workweek. For people who don't work; they would just report to an exercise center, I suppose. People who are wheelchair bound would probably need to get a special waiver like a driver's license.

People may then begin making judicious, government mandated health "choices." Sometimes, the only way for people to wake up is to hit them where it hurts -- that's usually the pocketbook.

A couple of the major reasons my husband, who knew smoking was bad for him, decided to quit smoking 4-5 years ago were financially based -- the, at the time, impending doubling of the cigarette tax and the banning of smoking in public places. Jacob's (Progressive) Field was built using revenue generated from the smoking tax, so I did find it rather ironic that this was one of the first places smoking was banned. Of course, hearing himself wheezing while he was laying down to go to sleep while only being in his mid-20s played another major role. At least the financial aspect is a good reinforcement to not fall back.

On another issue, the government should heavily tax people with gas guzzlers. I want to kick the next person at work in the throat when I hear them complain about the price of gasoline, and yet they drive around in an SUV or sports car. Hello?

My concern with any kind of government management of a major sector is that the money will end up going somewhere where that doesn't need it or down a black hole, and policies take forever to update/change. :P

/soapbox and sarcasm off

Forgot to add in that epic length post, that I'd be dinged left and right with taxes, being overweight, enjoy potato chips, fried spring rolls, ramen/pho (ok, obsessed), husband is fanatical about pizzas and hamburgers, and lead a fairly sedentary life. I did sit in front of the computer for a good bit just before responding to this post and read everyone's comments for the first time, after all. :)

@ dbcurrie-- Thank you!

Oh yes, and for what it's worth... I grew up in New England where maple syrup is plentiful... I'm pretty sure there is a law there that carries the penalty of death by hanging, for using that nasty corn syrup with "maple flavoring".

Gee, I am sorry I missed this discussion - have just returned from a couple of days away - but - @GOM - one of the reasons I was drawn to reading this post, that you titled (as some have now forgotten) "Why we are losing the battle of the bulge" was because of the last post I responded to before I went away was one in which you posted a recipe for a Marmalade cake that was over 700 calories a slice and sky high in carbohydrate! When a few of us balked at such an indulgence, you got quite testy. Poor food choices have something to do with the title, store bought or self made from scratch.

Yes, I did. Here is the entire thread for those who want to read it without searching. Esther's Marmalade Cake.

One or two slices of cake a week, even at 700 calories per slice, will not hurt you, especially if you get out and exercise. Seven hundred calories per day every day because you can buy cheap cookies at the grocery store will hurt you. How many cookies will you eat if you have to bake every one of them? How many cakes will you bake in a month?

For most people the answer is not very many or none. For avid cooks, especially those who are weight conscious? Once or twice a month.

Are you getting it yet? You must be getting close, given that you pointed out, "Poor food choices have something to do with the title, store bought or self made from scratch." You are right on this score. Here is what I said in the thread you mentioned:
Cakes, cookies and other such stuff should be an occasional treat, not an every day thing. Once in a while, say once or twice in a month, they are not so bad. Eat them every day and you'll rot your teeth while busting your belt.

You are responsible for what you put in your mouth, not the corporations in the food industry. It ain't MacDonald's or Burger King who makes your kids fat, it's you the parent.

People in the government and certain other control freak advocacy groups are insisting that it is all the fault of that evil fast-food industry. Oh, and there is also the "Don't eat meat! You're being mean to the animals" crowd, and then there is also "Don't eat meat because it is bad for the environment" crowd and the "I get a meat hangover so meat must be bad for everyone" sentiment.

If you want the government in full control of your diet then all you need do is remain silent in the face of these kinds of scare mongers and advocacy groups.

@NYCEater - I agree completely. And Grumpy, I usually really enjoy your posts. This one is feeling increasingly condescending, at least to me.

@NYCeater,

The thing that you just don't seem to be getting is that *this* isn't the crowd who goes and buys the cookies!!!!!!!

Yes, I do understand that. Here is what I want to know. Are serious eaters going to standby and allow the behavior of fools, the majority who are not Serious Eaters in this case, dictate their diets? There is nothing wrong with eating the occasional hamburger w/ fries and a coke, but there is are grave risks associated with eating such stuff every day.

This doesn't even make sense! You wrongly assume that someone who would purchase cookies at the store would then sit and eat 700 calories worth a day?

Oh, yes, yes, sure. Nabisco's Chips Ahoy brand of cookies claims 5 calories per gram. A bag of those last about thirty minutes in the average household. Then there is the cold cereal, already too sweet, with a couple of teaspoons of sugar on top. The large serving of potato chips with two sandwiches made from sliced bread and cheap lunch meat, sugar cured, and a beer or a cocktail or tall soft drink, and then we all go out to the local fast food joint for supper. I watch what people do, I do notmake assumptions. Do you know who does make assumptions? The Federal Government. When they see the majority doing X and Y they assume that everyone does.

The Federal Government has no choice about whether or not it wants to make assumptions. The people in the government have not got the time to make allowances for individual behavior. They always impose a one size fits all solution because that is the only way they can do it.

Now, let's talk about agendas. Guess who has a clear agenda, Robert Kenner, Elise Pearlstein, William Pohlad, Jeff Scholl, Robin Schorr, Dianne Weyermann, Eric Schlosser, Richard Pierce and Melissa Robledo and probably a great many more who I have not named. Any of those names ring a bell with you?

My position is that I want the freedom to buy the foods I wish to buy, from whomever I choose to buy them, without interference from the government or from some wigged out NGO whose members suffer from a Messiah complex. Ergo, I am arguing in favor of individual freedom.

And, unless you have data to back your claims, it is you who assume that the majority on this forum do not wish to read what I write. While we are on the subject of majorities, what if the majority does not wish to read what I write? Nothing about this arrangement of this forum forces them to read anything I post. You don't have to read anything I write if you do not want to. Nothing and no one is forcing you to read my posts.

Look, you can eat 100% healthy and work out and cook all of your own food, never eat out, and still have health problems. And need health insurance.

No, government is not all 'good,' but that doesn't mean all government is evil and bad. I'm happy the government has regulations about food safety and sanitation. I like having nutritional information to make informed choices.

Personal responsibility and wise government policy go hand-in-hand. Taking steps to take care of your own health goes hand-in-hand with wise social policy to promote health. It's absurd fear-mongering to suggest that simply because I (like my father who has Medicaid some ooh, evil government socialist program that already exists that provides healthcare older Americans) have health insurance through the government I'm going to start inhaling packaged cookies. In fact, health insurance promotes better preventative care and often better lifestyle choices.

The health insurance debate goes WAY beyond food and this forum's scope, as @dbcurrie others have said, unless you feel you can eliminate ALL diseases and health problems (including broken legs and STDs) through diet, which is ridiculous.

what is with people who attack the government constantly using the postal service as an example. they are actually amazing at what they do. send boxes, letters across the country, town, into other countries... they are 99% reliable which is more than can be said for businesses. and they dont leave my stuff in the rain when there is an overhang to put it under unlike ups.

im not commenting on health care....

anyhow, i prefer talking about how i got my burger at mcdonalds instead of making it... open late, but not so much yummy. why cant yummy places be open late?

wow, I go sailing for a few days and this blows up EVEN more than when I read it last week.

@dbcurrie - thank you for posting the comment policy

@GOM - I was not actually "enjoying the show" - I find "shows" like this to be annoying and pushy, but find myself laughing at how well you are living up to your name.

What's it mean if I make pancakes and waffles from scratch and, 90% of my other meals, and I'm still fat? In the last two weeks, I've seen a scientific report state that the slightly obese live longer that the morbidly obese or those whom are underweight and another second report that says you'll live longer on a reduced calorie diet. I've read reports that alternatively vilify or praise BMI as a way to determine my proper weight. I don't go to the farmers market as much because I have difficulty in justifying the 3x expense of "farm fresh" vegetables: many of which are neither. Perhaps, with the current state of information overload and lacking any leadership a reasonable person would consider accurate, we, as a nation of lazy slobs, are ignoring the clamor and just doing what we want. And know that, in the end, medical science may not be able to tell us, accurately, how to live, but they do a damn good job of keeping us alive when we screw up.