How you know a cook doesn't cook ...
So I was out of town on a work trip a few weeks ago, and luckily there was a little cafe that sold hot breakfast in the morning. Awesome, I thought. So I order poached eggs and toast, and the kid says "we don't have poached eggs here."
It took a bit of effort to not tell him that poached eggs was just eggs and water, and that surely they had both (I hadn't had coffee yet, I'm really not that rude to well-intended food service staff!!).
WE DON'T HAVE POACHED EGGS = we don't actually know how to cook!
Yes, there was a very long time when I had no clue how to poach eggs, so I'm not asserting there's something wrong with anyone who doesn't.
Anything specific that tips you off that the folks behind the line are just hired and showed how to make the menu vs. actually able to cook?
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23 Comments:
Did you consider that they might not have had a set up to boil water? Many breakfast places I know of only have a griddle and aren't set up to poach.
MoEats at 2:08PM on 05/16/09
Not having poached eggs on the menu doesn't mean they don't know how to poach an egg.
caramel at 2:34PM on 05/16/09
In a restaurant they have a menu which is planned down to the time/supplies/cost to equal a profit. If they are not doing a poached egg its because that item does not fit into their time/supplies/cost scenario.
It is how they chose to operate. The "little cafe" made the choices that turn the best profit for their business model.
JerzeeTomato at 2:56PM on 05/16/09
I've never considered ordering poached eggs at any place that didn't explicitly offer them on the menu. I figure it's too time/attention consuming for a short-order style setup. If eggs benedict is offered, fair game, but I'd rather have eggs cooked a different way than eggs poached badly.
That being said, I believe that vast majority of restaurant food is cooked by people who are trained to prepare the menu.
Also, this raises the question as to how much someone needs to know/master before they are "actually able to cook." If, say, a master of Schezuan cooking didn't know how to make a quiche, would you say they are unable to cook?
renzata at 3:03PM on 05/16/09
If I am getting a proper picture of this cafe it is like many small breakfast/lunch establishments that thrive on having a set menu. These type of places are really not the ones to "go off the reservation". Their job is to get you in and out quickly with food that can be from passable to very, very good. There is a place like that at near our home. Very basic breakfast and lunch menu, everything prepped and ready to go. Not gonna win any awards, but good for a quick bite. Oh, and by the way, no poached eggs on that menu.
finsbigfan at 3:37PM on 05/16/09
The menu item I ordered was "2 eggs" plus potatoes, meat, toast. Was I really off on thinking that "poached" would not be an acceptable thing to ask for?
joyyy at 5:28PM on 05/16/09
As someone who has worked short-order, I agree very much with some of the other comments. Not all very small places have a set up for boiling water, and even if they did, if you ordered something not technically on the menu they would have had to get the water boiling, then make them, which throws off timing as was mentioned.
You had every right to ask if the poached eggs were one of the options, but not to be upset that they weren't at a small place like that. Normally when eggs are offered as "choose your style" it means of the types that can be made on a griddle when at a small breakfast place.
I remember getting asked for poached eggs, which we could accommodate even though not on the menu, but I remember getting lectured by someone who wanted eggs benedict and could not understand how we could NOT have hollandaise on hand (to go with those eggs that aren't on the menu....) and even asked if we could whip some up for her 'real quick'. (She even tried to explain how it was made, like we were dumb.) This was a 20 seat plus counter breakfast and lunch place with a staff of 3. Ask for anything you want at small places like that, but don't get miffed if they can't do it.
sadiepix at 6:54PM on 05/16/09
Putting a small pan of water on the stove to boil takes notime I would assume the cook didn't know how to make them. I am amazed how many people cook at a restaurant with out a clue of the basics.
WSLunch at 7:10PM on 05/16/09
@Sadiepix - yeah, I wasn't trying to order off menu, and I didn't say anything at all to the guy taking my order - I just ordered something else. In my head, it's just one of the easiest ways to cook eggs (hell I do it when we go camping) and it totally threw me for a loop because of that. Hadn't thought of the griddle only scenario others mentioned, which makes sense though.
joyyy at 7:27PM on 05/16/09
Don't be amazed.
Cooking in many restaurants is often done by folks who can do the job they need to do, but don't necessarily love food, enjoy cooking or have a 'foodie' background of any kind. Do you have any idea how many line cooks I have met who hate what they do? Or that work so much they are sick of food and cooking and so don't do it at home or study any extras?
If a person can do the cooking the restaurant needs them to do, they don't have to know basics to get paid unless they are the type of place that often makes items off-menu for people or takes special requests. (Or higher end places of course.)
If you think every person who slings eggs at you at 8 a.m. needs to have cooking "basics" down then perhaps reinstating Home-Ec in high schools as a mandatory course for all people? Or make it so you have to have those to get hired for any cooking job? Geez.
They choose to run their place as they like. Maybe they should state on the menu "2 eggs, any griddle style" or something, or maybe the owners have a reason for not offering it, but it does not necessarily mean the employee doing the cooking does not know how. Don't judge the cook or the cooking ability unless you know all the details.
sadiepix at 7:29PM on 05/16/09
@joyy--exactly--no harm in asking!
sadiepix at 7:31PM on 05/16/09
It's not really just eggs and water. It's also vinegar, a burner, time, etc.
When I worked in a kitchen we made poached eggs because they were the boss' favorite, but we were one of the few places in town that did. We made the poaching liquid first thing (salt and cider vin in water) and kept it simmering all morning (which meant we had to keep an eye on it and replenish the water). It's not a hassle to make them, but it does take maintenance and space.
Please don't ever assume that because someone won't cook something it's because they can't. Cooking isn't just about ability but also about having the equipment and space. Some kitchens just don't have the extra burners or staff to attend to special/off-menu requests.
gingercookiewithlime at 7:45PM on 05/16/09
A friend of mine once told me she's not allowed to poach eggs at her restaurant because of health and safety issues. Something to do with standing water kept at the wrong temperatures. I don't remember exact details. She worked at a bar type restaurant that served steaks, and sandwiches with breakfast on weekends.
ag3208 at 9:18PM on 05/16/09
@ joyyyy and sadiepix. I am the owner of not 1 but 2 small coffee houses. (Screw you, Dunkin Donuts). I served breakfast at both. I did not poach a damn thing because 1. I did not have burner space. 2. I was alone 99% of the time and did not have time to babysit poaching eggs. 3. It didnt fit into my small, albiet eclectic menu.
To say that "if you dont have poached eggs you cant cook" is a total freakin crock. I am fairly secure in my ability in the kitchen and Im sure the myriad of people that request me as their personal chef, caterer, party planner or just the best damn chef they know would agree. Get over yourselves. I mean....really.
ChelleyD01 at 10:41PM on 05/16/09
Ummm...are you telling me to get over myself? I am the one defending the restaurant that did not cook the poached eggs by saying they can't or won't due to space or time or other things and they have that right...I am on the side of the cook here.
Read both of my posts again please if that was directed at me.
sadiepix at 11:06PM on 05/16/09
I can see how they wouldn't have had them on the menu, but how busy were they? Cause come on, they could've made an exception. I actually had the opposite problem once - I wanted a hard-boiled egg but the place would only give me poached, which was fine, but really? Unless it was one of those packed diners that rotates in customers as fast as they can, they could've poached you some eggs.
Also it sounds like you had to explain to him what they were, so maybe he really DIDN'T know how to make them...
embolini9 at 11:17AM on 05/17/09
Just to clarify again - I'm learning from the comments that there are good reasons a place might not be set up to do it - something that hadn't occured to me and I NOW know thanks to you folks.
And yes, I know a lot of line cooks hate cooking/can't cook - to me this was a (potential) flag that that's what's going on, and it struck me to ask if anyone had similar experiences where something kind of flips the "oh, that's what's going on" switch like this did for me that morning.
And in case my other comments weren't read - the post described my inner monologue, not things I actually expressed to the dude taking my order - I am NOT the kind of patron who would throw a hissy fit or actually hassle a service employee over something so minor.
joyyy at 11:36AM on 05/17/09
@ChelleyD: Sadiepix is on your side. Why so hasty to throw the daggers? He disagreed agreeably, that's all. It's possible to be critical while still validating points raised by an opponent, i.e., when sadiepix acknowledged there was no harm done by joyyy in asking for poached eggs . Civility tends to help everyone learn something. And personal attacks makes the attacker look like a total jag. People, please don't act like jags spoiling for a fight. Fights are tired. Spread the food love. Thank you.
Susquehanna at 12:24PM on 05/17/09
You are talking poached eggs right? Oh my good God.
Shelleyanne at 4:34PM on 05/17/09
Am I the only person thinking of Jack Nicholson in Five Easy Pieces?
I don't see any harm in asking--I've asked lots of times if dishes could be made without meat and cheese and been told no, the dishes were already assembled. And I totally understand--no 'chicken salad' talk from me.
Question: Let's say hypothetically that the OP was wanted poached eggs, toast, and bacon. She notices there are poached eggs specified on the menu for Eggs Benedict and they can obviously do poached eggs in that restaurant. Is she then justified in getting upset, because she wants all of the components of the dish, only without white sauce and with regular rather than Canadian bacon?
HeartofGlass at 6:44PM on 05/17/09
My favorite movie line ever, Heart of Glass.
But as I mentioned in my earlier reply, I think that if there are poached eggs elsewhere on the menu, I'd feel differently about it (although I start to get annoyed when people order way off menu).
renzata at 12:24AM on 05/18/09
@renzata--oops! I am sorry, I missed your earlier comment, but yes, I feel the same way--if there are poached eggs offered elsewhere, it seems as if they should be more flexible about substitutions.
But again, no harm in asking, so long as the phrase "between your knees" is not uttered.
A paradox: why does that scene always make me want a mayo-based sandwich rather than the toast Nicholson is ordering?
Carry on....
HeartofGlass at 5:32AM on 05/18/09
When "Two Eggs Any Style" are offered - it's assumed they mean one of three things: Scrambled, fried "up" (uncooked film over yolk) or fried "over" (film on yolk is cooked by flipping the eggs so the "up" side briefly touches the pan). If a restaurant wants to stay away from poaching, they usually list something like "except poached" or "no poached." I had to switch to poached eggs after many attempts at soft boiled proved completely futile.
We used to eat in a place called Lenny's in Clearwater. BF was a pre-work regular. There was only one cook in the whole joint who could poach a decent egg. When the waitress came for our order, I'd have to look in the kitchen to see who was cooking. If all I could see was the waist of a pair of cook's pants, I'd order the poached eggs. (The only guy who knew how to poach an egg was amazingly tall. To this day I don't know if he has a face.) If he wasn't cooking, I'd order something else. If it's one thing I hate, it's being served what amounts to "shell off hard-boiled eggs."
The lack of poached eggs can point to a few things. 1) They need more attention than the cook is able/willing to give during a b'fast rush; 2) Lack of burner space - though you can do a shallow pan of simmering water on a griddle and of course 3) Inability. Higher end restaurants (read: brunch) can usually poach eggs.
Another giveaway: Listing Eggs Benedict as featuring "our special cheese sauce." (Egads.) THIS is truly a place that has no clue about Eggs Bene.
therealchiffonade at 7:24AM on 05/18/09