bread not rising up?
so here's the deal...lately i've been making wheat bread, and it's rising out...but not up. i don't really know what i'm doing wrong here...it rises properly in the first rise, but after i've shaped the loaf, it only seems to spread out. what am i doing wrong?
Add a comment:
Previewing your comment:
HTML Hints
Some HTML is OK: <a href="URL">link</a>, <strong>strong</strong>, <em>em</em>
Comment Guidelines
Post whatever you want, just keep it seriously about eats, seriously. We reserve the right to delete off-topic or inflammatory comments. Learn more at our Comment Policy page.
If you see something not so nice, please, report an inappropriate comment.
Start Talking!
Need a question answered? Have advice to share? Start a Talk topic now!
Sign up to get your questions answered and share advice.
17 Comments:
I've had the same problem, wheat or whatever type of bread. I'm thinking the culprit was probably the yeast, which I bought more than six months ago. Maybe check the expiration date?
yayfood at 11:42PM on 05/17/09
not enough gluten development/bad bread shaping. the tight surface tension and gluten web help trap the gases to rise up.
could be too wet, not mixing, kneading long enough. or try adding a little bit of vital wheat gluten to the recipe.
first, make sure when you shape it you're really sealing the bottom, making a tight loaf. what shape are you doing?
then i'd look at the other stuff.
dmarina at 11:45PM on 05/17/09
the bread's already got gluten in it, so it may be that i'm not kneading enough...too wet is also an possibility, as i'm using agave nectar in place of sugar(though i'm reducing the water too)...i've got it in...i don't know, just a standard loaf shape...kinda long with rounded corners.
rasellers0 at 11:57PM on 05/17/09
Do you proof your yeast first, or do you just have it do all the work once you have mixed the ingredients together?
dbrackst at 12:15AM on 05/18/09
dbracket--yeah...i don't really know how to properly proof yeast, actually...(i'm still kinda new at all this...)
rasellers0 at 12:18AM on 05/18/09
i'd suggest adding more surface tension. pull the dough downward and then pinch the seam tightly at the bottom, then gently twist it all the way across the length.
are you using a loaf pan or baking it free form?
cybercita at 12:19AM on 05/18/09
just because it has gluten in it, doesn't mean it's enough. many recipes add extra gluten. esp. with the agave nectar, i would think.
shaping bread is not just patting it into a long loaf shape. it's folding, and pinching repeatedly to build the surface tension (as cybercita said).
do you have any good basic bread making books?
dmarina at 12:35AM on 05/18/09
dmarina--i've added extra wheat gluten--about 5 tsp, i think. and as far as shaping goes, i shaped it about the same way i would a loaf destined for a pan--i rolled it out with a pin, and rolled it up, then shaped it.
It's weird, and i'm thinking the agave nectar may be the biggest problem; i've made this recipe before with regular sugar and it's always worked fine...i'll try it again tomorow and find out for sure.
rasellers0 at 12:40AM on 05/18/09
I think you're not kneading your dough enough. Have you tried the windowpane test?
http://www.wildyeastblog.com/2007/07/07/gluten/
SqueezeBottle at 1:50AM on 05/18/09
Strictly unscientific but here goes... WW bread is rather heavy and it takes a lot for the yeast to raise it. A couple of suggestions to try...
Add more yeast.
Try backing off on the WW content of the flour and maybe add something lighter, if not white flour.
Try doing the loaf in a loaf pan. The walls of the loaf pan will prevent the widening of the loaf as it rises and force the bread to rise UP. Yes, the shape you desire may not be there but your bread will have height.
One more thing - try forming smaller loaves. If the yeast doesn't have to work as hard, you may get some upward lift.
therealchiffonade at 7:11AM on 05/18/09
@therealchiffonade suggested what I have done in making honey wheat bread. I now use half and half which technically takes the 'whole' out of it, but it still is exceptional bread. I just couldn't seem to make a decent bread with all whole wheat. Make sure when starting your yeast that you use warm not hot water as you will kill the yeast. Sugar is a dry ingredient and now you are using a wet ingredient in the nectar. You may need to balance the ratio of wet/dry in favor of more flour. I see some experimenting in your future.
janaatwg at 8:51AM on 05/18/09
I'm not an expert bread baker, like some of the other posters, although I make a delicious honey challah. I can explain how to proof "active dry" yeast.
Put dry yeast in a ramekin with 1/4 cup of 110°F. water( use an accurate kitchen thermometer. Digital meat thermometers are inexpensive).
Add 1 tsp. of sugar and stir to dissolve. Wait about 5 min. If the yeast is good, the solution will thicken and foam up appreciably.
"Rapid rise" yeast is more active than regular yeast, and does not require proofing. I have not tried it.
salpico at 10:54AM on 05/18/09
@ cybercita (or anyone else who can answer) - Can you help me with surface tension? I am struggling with that SO much in my bread making. I round, and then in an effort to create tension, I tear the gluten.
Would this be better posed in another post? I hate to create one and "bury the rest," if this question can be served in the body of this one. My apologies to @rasellers0 for inadventantly hijacking your post.
mollykate678 at 2:14PM on 05/18/09
@Molly kate - frisage is a method of kneading that stretches the gluten but doesn't tear it. You use the heel of your hand and sort of smear the dough in front of you. Use the bench scraper to gather the dough.
Effective kneading is done from the knees up. Using just your hands, wrists and forearms won't do it. Use all your weight to move the dough around. Resist the temptation to add too much flour because that will dry out the resulting loaf.
Have you tried the no knead bread?
therealchiffonade at 6:04PM on 05/18/09
@therealchiffonade & mollykate-frisage is for making flaky pastry (pate brisee, pie crusts, etc.) with layers of butter, not bread making.
to the OP, i can't think of one recipe where i've used a rolling pin on bread dough.
you want to build gluten during the initial mixing. after the initial rise, you want to punch it down & de-gas it a bit, but not totally kill it. fussing with the bread too much at this stage, will make the gluten tighten up and you'll have tough bread with a really tight crumb.
to make a baguette-type loaf with good surface tension, you gently pat the dough into a rectangle, with the short ends facing you. fold the top down & bottom up (thirds) and seal with the heel of your hand. place the dough seam side down and gently roll, applying light pressure and shape. do not stretch or pull it.
also, have you made the recipe with sugar? i'd try it once just to rule that out as a problem.
dmarina at 3:09AM on 05/19/09
It's actually spelled fraisage with an "a" and it translates to kneading or mixing. I believe that in the strictest sense it's a term more associated with making pie dough (pâte brisée). It is the act of pushing out the dough with the palm of your hand to mix in the butter. The thing is that it is also used interchangeably with pétrir (to knead) even though it is not quite the same thing.
SqueezeBottle at 8:53AM on 05/19/09
@therealchiffonade - (by the way, I always want to know the meaning behind your name. I have visions of imposters dancing in my head!) Thanks for your insight. I feel like I'm pretty good with the actual kneading itself, after much practice. Where I feel the need to improve, I guess, is with shaping and that stage's corresponding suface tension. When I round, I find it difficult to get the outer skin truly taut, as the gluten will rip and tear after a bit. It doesn't affect the taste or my overall pleasure with the process, of course; I just want to make a prettier loaf. And yes, I've gone the no knead route. They're perfect for their intended purposes, and I use them occasionally. They just don't provide the satisfaction I seek when I set out to make bread. It's all about me, apparently!!
mollykate678 at 1:17PM on 05/19/09