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25 Comments:
I've tried it with both, I prefer red.
NanaJoie at 3:25PM on 03/03/09
All of the most authentic recipes I've read or cooked called for white. I've never tried it with red.
simon at 3:44PM on 03/03/09
Red is the best layer of flavor for a red sauce.
JerzeeTomato at 4:09PM on 03/03/09
Depends on the region of Italy the recipe comes from.
finsbigfan at 4:19PM on 03/03/09
Ragu alla Bolognese is from Bologna, in Emilia-Romagna. It isn't really a "red sauce." That's a big American misconception, from all the Southern Italians who primarily shaped our Italian American culture.
Cooking it in tomato sauce is a bastardization. It's a meat sauce. It's not about tomatoes, it's not about wine. There's no garlic or herbs in it. It's about meat. Specifically, pork - both fresh and cured (pancetta and sometimes prosciutto) and beef. It needs a soffrito (or mirepoix) of onion, carrot and celery, and lots of milk. Variations include chicken livers. The amount of meat and milk in it makes for a brownish gray color, the tiny bit of tomato paste put into it is really just for color and some sweetness. When it's done it should be brown, with little bits of carrot in it.
All that being said, there are as many recipes for Bolognese as there are grandmothers in Emilia-Romagna, and they each have their own secrets, and each one of them will tell you that theirs is the most authentic.
simon at 4:40PM on 03/03/09
My "bolognese" (a word my italian ancestors never used and neither do I) always comes out reddish. I don't add tomatoes so to speak but two heaping tablespoons of tomato paste. The mirepoix and the meat both pork and beef (with the tomato paste) make it a dark sauce once you add the red wine aka ragu aka sugo (the word my relatives used). The actual term for this dish is Sugo Alla Bolognese. Now if your from Bologna why would you call it Bolognese? That would be like being in Philadelphia and asking for a "philly" cheesesteak.
We don't dump tomatoes in everything, would get kind of boring. I think calling anything that is a meat sauce a "bolognese" is a European bastardization of one region's dish. All over Europe everyone calls a meat sauce a "bolognese". There is more than one region in Italy and more than one term for a meat sauce. We never ever add milk to it. I have only seen one person do that and that was Nigella Lawson. When I saw it I cringed.
My grandmother was not from southern Italy but northern Italy and was a classically trained italian chef, go figure.
JerzeeTomato at 5:30PM on 03/03/09
Mario & Marcella Hazan specify white wine in their Bolognese recipes, and I like them both, but I like red wine in Bolognese better.
MMinNYC at 5:51PM on 03/03/09
@Jerz- I've seen Mario Batali put milk in his. I make it with milk, but that's how my family does it.
meg3j at 6:01PM on 03/03/09
I use a NY Times recipe that calls for white wine and cream instead of milk (intelligent--since cream does not curdle.) It is a stupendous recipe with dried porcini and sausage and ground beef (plus onions, celery, and carrots.) I freaked out a few days ago when I couldn't find it. Persistence paid off (it was wedged in the center of another cut out recipe.) The transcendent "additive" is a splash of truffle oil at the end. OMG--I dream about that bolognese!
Teachertalk at 6:19PM on 03/03/09
Recipes for Bolognese including milk date back to the 15th century.
simon at 6:27PM on 03/03/09
Oops forgot the link: http://www.discusscooking.com/forums/f21/ragu-alla-bolognese-authentic-bolognese-sauce-670.html
This is pretty much exactly the recipe I use. By bacon, I'm she means to say pancetta. American bacon is too sweet and smoky.
simon at 6:32PM on 03/03/09
I too have tried both and I prefer red.
pjracz10 at 6:38PM on 03/03/09
Cream I understand. Milk not so much so. It is a personal preference of mine and by no means do I say that it would not be good. I just don't like dairy in with meat sauce other than the grated cheese.
If you enjoy what your meat sauce then by all means use the milk.
@simon that recipe has tomato paste in it. Winks
JerzeeTomato at 7:01PM on 03/03/09
Most of the recipes in both Italy and the US I've seen use white. I personally use a red, though mostly because I have it on hand more. I deglaze with the wine, reduce it down and then add the milk and cook it down again. I found the milk is a must and it works much better to do it separately from the wine. Not sure why? Anyone know?
And I agree wholeheartedly with simon, it's about the meat more than the tomatoes, bacon or anything else. As much as I love all cured pork products, I skip the pancetta and I probably only use one large can of tomatoes per ~2 lbs of meat and that's probably still a little heavy on the tomato.
tinat at 7:06PM on 03/03/09
@Jerz- Yeah, it's my grandmother's thing. I've suggested using cream, but she didn't like that idea... and, needless to say, if she doesn't like it, it's never gonna happen. Haha. Just wait til I'm someone's grandmother! In like... 45 years. Ha.
meg3j at 7:14PM on 03/03/09
@Jerz - I know, I use tom paste too. It's a tiny bit though, a lot of recipes I've seen for bolognese say to use huge amounts (proportionally to the rest of the stuff) of marinara, which is what I was objecting to.
simon at 7:30PM on 03/03/09
So I guess I can make it anyway I want and it will be authentically mine!
dmcavanagh at 5:41AM on 03/04/09
I'm of Korean heritage so I don't have an Italian grandmother to tell me these things. So, I have cobbled together a recipe from three different sources: Mark Bittman's recipe in HTCE, Rosengarten's in Dean & Deluca, and Claiborne's in The NYT Cookbook. White wine is an ingredient in some or all, I can't recall, but I've used red on more than one occassion because that is what I generally have in the house. More importantly, I don't think anyone's Italian grandmother rolled over in her grave when I did so.
wookie at 4:43PM on 03/04/09
@dmcavanagh & wookie: hahah! True indeed.
simon at 5:19PM on 03/04/09
I also use the L'Accademia Italiana della Cucina recipe
liquids are 1 cup milk: 1/2 cup white wine,
kevmalone at 6:37PM on 03/04/09
I use mid-quality Chianti, because I just think it reduces better than white wines. And I add chicken livers. The real key to this meat sauce is to reduce it -- then reduce it some more.
shaogo at 9:22PM on 03/04/09
@simon: ;)
wookie at 10:41AM on 03/05/09
I grew up with red in bolagnese-type sauces, and I've tried both, thinking the white would be an abomination. But it's not. It adds a brightness that you just don't get from the red, like adding lemon juice to a piece of cooked meat at the end.
jujyfruit at 2:02PM on 03/05/09
When I make Bolognese or even a regular pasta sauce, I first add wine (typically red, but I'm not anal), evaporate it almost completely, add milk or cream and cook that off almost fully as well. The mix of the two adds an amazing richness and mouthfeel to the sauce.
tatianak at 3:37PM on 03/05/09
Orignal bolognese recipe used red wine, and adding in bacon
englishster at 5:36AM on 10/01/09