PrintTalk Categories
There used to be definitions of the talk categories somewhere, but now that you've got the "front burner" thing, maybe that would be a good place to post them, in clear view.
Nice title, by the way...front burner...
Anyway, this is the way I understand them (or not):
Site feedback is feedback on the site itself, not feedback on specific postings or articles.
New York is obviously things related specifically to NY. And maybe not of much interest to a broader audience that isn't familiar with NY.
Food Media and News is about stuff we've read or seen on TV or heard on radio. (Stuff from/about blogs, too?) But we're not reporting the news, we're talking about what has already been published, correct?
Eating Out is about restaurants, fast food, takeout/delivery -- should grocery store topics be in here as well? Maybe "Buying food"? But this is more about us buying already cooked food, rather than chat about food that we're cooking for ourselves, so maybe groceries don't go here. Also, since there's also an Eating Out section, is this confusing when people are clicking around?
Cooking and baking is the nuts and bolts of cooking and baking and mixing and grilling. Hmmm...is this the place for shopping/ingredient questions? In my mind, yes. Maybe?
Food and Drink is sort of a kitchen table discussion of food/cooking/eating related topics. Stuff that doesn't fit neatly in the above sections.
Am I close?
I'm not saying there should be rigid rules on where things go, particularly since some things could fit in multiple categories (ie, a query about a recreating a recipe from a restaurant in NY could go in NY or Eating Out or Cooking and Baking) but since there are categories, it might be nice to define them again.
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35 Comments:
i have a nice big box with all the defs in nice clear printing in english so i can read them. don't you?
dearrie at 3:48PM on 01/17/09
@dearrie -- no, I don't. Where? What page?
dbcurrie at 3:53PM on 01/17/09
when i click on talk. on the top of the page.
dearrie at 3:57PM on 01/17/09
Yep, it's all there already, nice and clear, when you click on each category. I don't think there is a need for something more rigid than that.
brooke29 at 4:02PM on 01/17/09
When I click on Talk, there are the clickable links to the categories. The names are there, but there are no definitions for the categories. Above that is the banner, which doesn't change from when I'm on the home page.
There used to be definitions (I think) when you clicked on the "start talking" where the category names had definitions next to them, but now there are just the names.
I looked before I posted this, because I thought at some point they were someplace handy and obvious, but I can't remember the last time I saw them.
dbcurrie at 4:04PM on 01/17/09
i agree.
dearrie at 4:04PM on 01/17/09
@dearrie, you agree with what?
If I click on Talk -- and I just did it again, there are the names of the categories. Above is what I described, and below is the "front burner" thing and then the lastest posts below it. I don't see any big box with definitions.
Maybe I should check another computer to see if its my browser, but I swear there used to be definitions on the "start talking" page and I know they aren't there, either, unless I've gone completely mad. Which may be the case.
dbcurrie at 4:12PM on 01/17/09
Once you click on each category, there is a short definition right underneath rthe category name, for instance:
Food and Drink has "General conversation about food and drink.",
Cooking and Baking is "Cooking, baking, recipes, and everything else in the kitchen.",
Eating Out - "Where to eat, restaurant recommendations, dining advice and tips.", etc.
I think it's quite clear, frankly.
brooke29 at 4:14PM on 01/17/09
Just now, I clicked on TALK and there was a collapsible text box below "Talk > Latest Topics" and above "Front Burner." It contained just the explanations @dbcurrie mentions.
So I clicked on "Close this," and it did. Now I cannot get it back :-)
I think the list some are seeing and @dburrie, and now me, are not, is this collapsible box.
kjgibson at 4:15PM on 01/17/09
sorry- with brooke
dearrie at 4:24PM on 01/17/09
i just closed the box and it came back, but i clicked on talk again. all the text is there with the defs.
dearrie at 4:27PM on 01/17/09
@kjgibson -- thanks! I'm definately not seeing that.
@brooke, now that you've pointed me, I see it. In a very light green text that doesn't follow when I click on a post. Since I spend more time looking at posts and comments, I guess that was the image burned in my mind. And if I go from Talk to the "most recently...", I don't see that text, either.
Well, golly, I'm only half-mad. It's there -- it's not there -- it's there -- it's not there.
I was just thinking that for new people, it might help to make their posting a little easier if the definitions were more accessible, but if it's obvious to everyone else, then it's just me. I'll have to check another computer and see if that green is a little darker elsewhere. I honestly never noticed it there until Brooke pointed it out.
dbcurrie at 4:35PM on 01/17/09
@dearrie, I'm jealous. No matter where I click, I don't get the magic box. Maybe it's a security setting on my computer, or something.
dbcurrie at 4:40PM on 01/17/09
It's a cookie setting. The box is there until/unless you close it and when you close it you can click something that says something like "don't show this again." If you go into your cookies and delete everything related to serious eats, it should come back (theoretically). It will also wipe out your "stay logged in setting" too.
ccbweb at 4:43PM on 01/17/09
@db-don't be jealous. i clicked on it again and now it won't come back. damm gremlins.lol
dearrie at 4:44PM on 01/17/09
As a Microsoft official once told me, "It's not a bug, it's an undocumented feature."
dbcurrie at 4:51PM on 01/17/09
I have a mac and I don't that that box either. I can't find anything to click on to give me the definitions.
izatryt at 4:55PM on 01/17/09
@db - If I'm not mistaken, I chose not to see the box you are all talking about in favour of seeing more latest topics, but when I first got to the main Talk page (close to two years ago now), it was there, and I had an option of having there or not. Like I said, it was a long time ago, so I may be mistaken about it, but I'm quite certain that new members will see it unless they choose not to, at some point.
I do think that those one-liners underneath the category names do the job just fine, but they probably could use a bolder font/colour. I know that they are there, but I have a photographic memory, so once I see something on a page, I remember it's there. Perhaps it could be made slightly more "visible" for new members' convenience.
brooke29 at 4:56PM on 01/17/09
I just saw what @ccbweb wrote -- so it seems that I do remember it correctly about the box, and it means that new members will see it and be able to choose whether they want to "keep" it or not.
brooke29 at 4:59PM on 01/17/09
@brooke, actually, I think the most useful place would be on the "start a topic" page, right next to the checkboxes where you click what category you want to post under. A good definition there would help new posters get the topics into correct-ish categories after they've written the post. I thought the defs used to be there at some point, but I could be wrong.
I have a photographic memory too. Unfortunately, I have no film!
Now that you mentioned those one-liners, I see them, but I never noticed them before. I guess I just know where I want to go, so I'm not looking at the details of the pages, I'm looking at the new topics.
As for the now-you-see-it-now-you-don't box, I'm not going to worry about it.
dbcurrie at 5:05PM on 01/17/09
have film, no batteries.
dearrie at 5:08PM on 01/17/09
I am not even seeing the one-liners! Help!!
izatryt at 5:15PM on 01/17/09
@db and dearrie - lol! I guess mine is digital...
brooke29 at 5:20PM on 01/17/09
@iz - click on a category name (like, Food and Drink), it will bring you to a page that says Talk > Food and Drink. Right underneath that, it says "General conversation about food and drink." And so on. See it now?
brooke29 at 5:24PM on 01/17/09
Talk category descriptions show up on the Talk index until you choose to "close this" and then you won't see them again unless you delete all your Serious Eats cookies (@ccbweb is correct about this).
Here's what the Talk index looks like with the categories descriptions "open".
@dbcurrie: I agree, these should be on the "start a talk topic" page as well and we can make that change.
And if anyone would like to delete your Serious Eats cookies so you can get the category descriptions back, here are some instructions for how to do so. You don't need to delete all your cookies, only the ones that contain "seriouseats".
Alaina Browne at 5:29PM on 01/17/09
@brooke ~ Got it! Thanks.
izatryt at 6:33PM on 01/17/09
I misfired a couple of early posts because I forgot to choose a category heading. At that time I think Food and Drink was the default.
therealchiffonade at 6:46PM on 01/17/09
@chiff, I don't think there's a default now, because when I've forgotten to choose one, it reminds me. Oddly, new posters seem to be choosing Site Feedback quite often, which is one reason I starting thinking about the definitions and making it more obvious what goes where.
dbcurrie at 8:23PM on 01/17/09
Here are my thoughts, for what they are worth.
The "Talk Category Descriptions" should always be available. Your personal cookie should be able to close it (and remember that decision), but there should always be a small link in that spot to allow people to re-open it, if needed. Deleting all of your SE cookies seems too inconvenient.
Alternatively, when you hover your mouse over each category at the top of the main "Talk" page, you could display a small pop-up box that contains the definition (similar to what is done in much software).
Regarding "Start Talking": When a person is starting a new topic, THAT is when they need the definitons and guidance the most! There should never be a default -- it simply shouldn't allow one to post unless a category is selected. There is guidance on that "new post" page for how to write a subject line, but nothing that addresses the definitons themselves.
The categories themselves are currently as follows:
Food and Drink
Cooking and Baking
Eating Out
Food Media and News
New York
Site Feedback
For me, I'd personally love to see greater granularity here, without overdoing it. For example, "Drink" usually involves alcohol -- not my thing. Cooking and baking should be separate, in my view. So perhaps something more like:
Food
Beverages
Cooking at Home
Baking at Home
Dining Out
Food Media and News
Regional Topics (yes, make NYC a subcategory and start letting people post in their own regions!) :) Yay!
And lastly (I mean it this time), you know those cookies that show/hide the definitions at the top? Why not use a cookie to simply let people decide which threads (aka, from the forums above) they want to stay abreast of?
Again, just my thoughts! Great site.
mince at 2:06AM on 01/18/09
FWIW, I have cookies enabled. I see the TALK definitions anytime I navigate to SE and click TALK for the first time that visit. If I close the browser, the list of definitions will appear again the first time I navigate to SE in a new browser.
therealchiffonade at 8:33AM on 01/18/09
I don't know if I see a need to change the topics, really, but a little clarity isn't a bad thing. Even those of us who post a lot may need a reminder that this isn't "our" home, and we need to stay within the guidelines at SE. And given the sudden burst of title changes and pulled comments, apparently we aren't all doing a good job staying within the rules.
When my "appliance gender" thread got removed, I figured it had broken a rule, and I went looking for the category definitions and couldn't find them. I had thought the "food and drink" category was anything you'd talk about around the kitchen table. Where I saw that definition, I have no idea. But if I couldn't remember correctly or find the definitions I thought maybe others would have the same problem, particularly some of the new folks, some of whom are having more problems figuring out what or where to post than I am.
Having the thread vanish wasn't a big deal, by the way. As a writer, I've learned not to be in love with my words, so I wouldn't blink an eye if it, and the discussion about it, vanished.
I also was a little surprised at the "Recipe Request:" tacked on to my applesauce question since I wasn't looking specifically for a recipe, I was looking more for ideas of what to do with the rest of the jar. That could have involved a recipe or could have been a suggestion to spread it on toast. Obviously, my question wasn't clear enough. I should have asked, "What can I do with half a jar of applesauce?"
Again, not a big deal on a personal level. It's just a reminder that I need to be a little more clear when I post a question. I'll remember that for a while, until I forget again.
And now that I know the "Recipe Request:" doesn't necessarily come from the poster, I might read more of those questions. I generally don't have written recipes to offer, so I've skipped a number of those posts thinking that this was a person who was looking for recipes and nothing else, much like the "Serious Efforts:" is meant to limit the answers a bit.
Anyway, I don't think the staff interaction is a bad thing. Somebody's got to keep us in line, or it would become a free-for-all of random chatter. It sort of feels like we're tidying things up because we're expecting company, where before things were a little loose and sloppy because it was just the family with our shoes off and drinking from the milk jug. Now and then it's good to tidy up a bit.
dbcurrie at 12:52PM on 01/18/09
@dbcurrie: Thanks for the feedback. It's a bit of a work in progress, the "tidying up." We may drop the tacking-on of "headings" like "Recipe Request" unless it clearly *is* a request for recipes. We/I may have gone overboard there. (You're right -- your applesauce was more a search for general ideas.)
We've just been trying to "tidy up" because some of the titles can be a bit vague, and, as a reader/lurker myself, I'd prefer to know what I'm getting into before clicking—and it helps the OP get an answer quicker.
SE will keep in mind that it's not just SE's "home," but everyone's home who participates in the great discussions here on the site.
Adam Kuban at 4:14PM on 01/19/09
I've added brief category descriptions to the Start Talking page!
Alaina Browne at 4:47PM on 01/19/09
@Adam -- I understand the desire for editing, the need for clarity, the whole shebang. Much of my income is derived from words. Some editing, some writing. So I've grown a pretty thick skin as far as having someone change what I've written or delete whole chunks of it. It's not a big deal.
Honestly, my writing on SE is probably an order of magnitiude worse than anything I'd turn in for publication. So if it's not clear or not appropriate, I'm fine with whatever you decide to do.
BUT...
I see SE as a conversation among friends, rather than a professional writing exercise. And in that context, the sudden and somewhat extensive editing of the talk topics seems a bit weird. As much as I edit my collegues when they turn in items to be published, I don't edit their conversations after work. And someone has fallen in love with the colon key, making it seems like all the topics are written by the same person. Yes, it's clearer and probably more functional, but in the process, some of the personality has been lost.
So, from your perspective, this site is a workplace for you and you want the clarity, but from ours, this is where we hang out to get away from work. We're a lot more casual and giddy than you are.
I dunno, this is just one of those things I'm to have to get used to. I know some people have already said that they appreciate the reworking of the talk titles, and I suspect it's one of those things that would have a split decision on whether it's good or not. So in the end, it's up to you. It's your house and we're the guests.
As far as deciding what's appropriate and what isn't as far as topics, better you than me. I can hear you gnashing your teeth from here over that political comment, and trying to figure out if you'll get more flack from pulling it (because someone will question your censorship and/or politcal affiliation) or whether it will be worse to not pull it. Good luck with that one.
And if you have any need to pull any of my topics, have at it. Sometimes in the wee hours of the morning, I think I'm more clever than I am at a more reasonable hour of the day.
dbcurrie at 6:42PM on 01/19/09
All I know is that when I first enter the SE web site via my shortcut, a list of definitions appear for the Talk topics.. Once I click on anything, they disappear. For what it's worth.
Josdean at 4:36PM on 01/21/09