Serious Efforts: A Buttermilk Brine for Fried Chicken?
I plan on making my first batch of fried chicken this weekend, and I've spent a couple of days thinking about how to proceed. I've been looking a few recipes, but two have really stood out-Thomas Keller's Fried Chicken and Alton Brown's.
I've been torn between brining in seasoned water vs. marinating in seasoned buttermilk. And while I saw the Edna Lewis post on this site about first brining and then tossing the chicken in buttermilk, I kind of want to simplify the process.
My Plan: Start with Thomas Keller's brine recipe, adjust the ingredients for just one 3 1/2 lb chicken and then use buttermilk instead of water for the brine.
Then, except for the double dredge and seasoning in Keller's recipe, I would proceed with Alton's cooking method: season the chicken before I dredge in flour (so the spices don't burn) use vegetable shortening (this apparently give the nicest crust, according to Alton) and, instead of paper towels, draining on cooling racks.
I just wondered if it'd be all right to boil the buttermilk and brining ingredients according to Keller's recipe. Would the buttermilk curdle? Would the lemon juice and peel that the recipe calls for make it curdle? I've read about flavoring buttermilk for a marinade, but never actually boiling it and then doing a full on brine. I only worry that something in this method of mine might make my finished prodct really sour and funky.
Also, in the TV episode that Alton does for his recipe, he mentions that letting the chicken sit too long after dredging is a bad thing (it becomes gluey)...but Keller says the chicken should rest for 1-2 hours.I wondered how you all feel about this. Do you think a double dredge, a long resting period and then Alton's cooking method would leave me with a thick doughy crust?
Thanks so much.
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29 Comments:
I'm not a big fan of buttermilk marinade. To me, it seems to change the texture, taste and mouth feel of the chicken. As for dredging, I double dredge in seasoned flour, being careful to shake off ALL the excess. Then it goes straight into the hot oil. The key is to keep the oil hot and not overdredge. I dredged chicken tenders once in advance and put them in the fridge. I fried them about 3 hours later and was disappointed. The breading came off in the oil, and since they came straight from the refrigerator, they cooked unevenly. I'm not a frequent fryer (LOL!), but this kind of summarizes my experiences.
Josdean at 1:43PM on 01/09/09
I myself will as a auto rule soak it overnight in buttermilk wth tabasco in it hands down.
pjracz10 at 2:27PM on 01/09/09
Some thoughts:
Keller's recipe is for deep frying the chicken and Brown's recipe is for a pan fry (more shallow, the chicken won't ever be totally submerged in the oil). That's a part of the reason why Keller's recipe calls for resting the chicken after dredging while in Brown's recipe you need to get it into the pan fairly quickly. The flour/coating will react very differently to being totally submerged in the oil versus being only partly submerged as the moisture that will be moving around (in the form of steam coming out of the chicken) will have different places to go. Depending on how you want to do your actual frying (deep fry versus a shallow fry) I'd stick with the suggestions of either Keller or Brown for their method about how long you can/should wait after dredging.
As for the brine, don't boil the buttermilk. The boiling step in Keller's recipe is really just to dissolve everything and probably to "wake up" the spices a bit. You could boil a much smaller amount of water (a cup or two) with all of the spices and then mix that with buttermilk to make up the rest of your recipe volume. Ultimately, though, Josdean is right that buttermilk will change the texture of the chicken. So will a brine. I'd very much suggest doing one and then the other to see how you like it. Doing both could really change the whole thing a lot. I've never tried a buttermilk soak with the ratio of salt one would use for a true brine. My instincts say I wouldn't like it. I'd go with seasoned buttermilk, personally. I like to add a bit of salt and some hot sauce to the butter milk and leave the chicken in that for 24 hours.
I do advocate vegetable shortening for frying, but I use a cast iron skillet and do a shallow fry very much like what Brown does. If I were going to do a deep fry I'd use peanut or vegetable oil because I'd rather deal with the oil than the tub of shortening.
ccbweb at 2:28PM on 01/09/09
I've never tried the brine process, but have had great success with just soaking my chicken in seasoned buttermilk before dredging in the flour. I think the beauty of a perfectly fried chicken is the simplicity...don't get too crazy with too many steps. Simple process, simple flavors = great results.
juliebugsmama at 2:35PM on 01/09/09
I use Emeril's recipe which calls for overnight soak in buttermilk and seasonings. The next day you dredge in your flour mixture and deep fry and it is amazingly good.
Emeril uses buttermilk and his "essense". I use buttermilk and Tony Chachere's Original Creole Seasoning.
I use two tablespoons of Tony Chachere's to each cup of flour.
Fried chicken is not supposed to be a project it supposed to be easy and good.
JerzeeTomato at 2:43PM on 01/09/09
@JerzeeTomato -- isn't Tony Chachere's Creole da bomb diggity?? We use it at our house ALL THE TIME...it's a great last minute spinkle on whatever needs that little sumpin' sumpin'.
juliebugsmama at 3:04PM on 01/09/09
Tony Chachere's is my secret ingredient to my smoked chicken to my friend chicken to my BBQ ribs. That is some crazy good stuff. They ever sell it at the big W. Lawd knows I garantee.
JerzeeTomato at 3:19PM on 01/09/09
I really like Alton's recipe, simply for the fact less shortening is needed for a shallow fry than a deep fry. Less to store in the fridge once the frying is done. I also like the buttermilk soak with the seasoning in it. I feel that the flavors have more time to penetrate. If you do go with a shallow fry, a screen is really nice to help control the spatters. Have fun!
dhorst at 3:20PM on 01/09/09
The story on the letting it sit is that it changes the consistency of the flour and thus the way it fries up. It'll look gluey after it stands for an hour or two (in the refrigerator, please!), but it fries up to a crispy batter-like coating on the chicken. It's your call. (Do half one way and half the other and let us know.)
lemons at 3:31PM on 01/09/09
These suggestions are all awesome. I read some more reviews of Keller's chicken and did indeed see that his cooking process was more of a "deep fry", which isn't really what I wanted to do. I've got a skillet and some shortening, I'm not ready to commit to total submergence.
There was just something so..ambitious and grand, about Keller's recipe. But again, what Keller recipe isn't? You guys are right about fried chicken being a simple and delicious thing.
I did see something online about nutmeg being an ultimate secret ingredient to add to the seasoning mix. Any thoughts?
@ccbweb When you talk about a change in texture after a marinade/brine, do you mean it gets mushy? I've read that too acidic of a mix will break the meat down too much. But I guess a 24-hour bath in buttermilk shouldn't hurt the chicken too much. I also really appreciate the depth of your post. You've managed to steer me into a less complicated and fussy direction.
@JerzeeTomato In my house we use an insane amount of Tony Chachere's in our jambalaya. It's the ultimate spice mix.
Alyrmc at 3:43PM on 01/09/09
Buttermilk soaking for chicken, especially breast meat, is intended to make the chicken moister since the lack of fat in breast meat can make it dry. Depending on what kind of chicken parts you are using, you could skip the buttermilk if you wanted to do a more traditional brine. Also, if you wanted to do the buttermilk and still infuse it with some of the brine flavorings, just heating it below the boil would have the desired effect.
akk328 at 4:09PM on 01/09/09
I did Altons chicken earlier this year and whilst I am completely in love with AB as a whole, I hated the chicken. I don't know if it was because I was expecting something straight outta the dirty south or if I did something wrong, but it just wasnt great.
I do, however, more times than not, soak boneless chicken pieces (just fries way easier than all that bone bullshit) in buttermilk that has been laced with hot sauce, good grainy mustard, crushed garlic cloves and a nice hit of salt and pepper. I also use a full fat butterflake buttermilk. I tend to leave them overnight and I skip flour altogether. I am a panko fan across the boards. I drain the chicken a little, panko it, set it on a cooling rack for 20 minutes or so then shallow fry in Crisco (eliminates the OH! YOU DEEP FRIED! stench in the house) and drain on another cooling rack.
I make a vat of homemade macncheese, green beans with onion and bacon and because it just feels right...hushpuppies. If Im going out, Im going out HUGE.
ChelleyD01 at 4:14PM on 01/09/09
@Alyrmc - yes, the change in texture is because the salt or acid will break down the protein of the meat a bit. To a point, that's a really good thing. The chicken will be somewhat more tender and moist and the flavors (of either the brine or the buttermilk) will have a chance to get into the chicken tom some extent. What I don't know and haven't tried is the combination of a lot of salt and buttermilk at the same time...since both are designed to break the chicken down some, I'm not sure what the result would be of the combination. My gut feeling is that the chicken would end up too mushy for my tastes, but it's only a gut feeling. (I'll probably have to give it a shot now to see....because who knows, it might be brilliant and I'll never make fried chicken a different way again after tasting it.)
A 24 hour soak in buttermilk will definitely not hurt your chicken, though. That seems a fairly standard technique for southern fried chicken. I can't wait to hear what you choose and how it comes out!
ccbweb at 4:25PM on 01/09/09
My favorite local country restaurant (southwestern Ohio) is connected to a dairy and does the buttermilk soak before frying their chicken, which they also serve with their own house-made buttermilk ranch dressing.
This is the only restaurant I ever order the same thing every time without reading the menu. =)
It's the Golden Jersey Inn connected to Young's Jersey Dairy in Yellow Springs, Ohio (www.youngsdairy.com).
akk328 at 4:37PM on 01/09/09
I agree that there is NO need to boil buttermilk. If you feel you must have it in a marinade then put it in the buttermilk and let it sit however long you want. I prefer to dip in buttermilk and then dip in my flour mix and that is it. Perfectly fried,tangy and crispy. Just the way I like it :)
love2cook at 5:05PM on 01/09/09
@ccweb thanks again! For some reason I didn't connect the idea that salt and buttermilk would both be working to break down the chicken. I probably would have ended up with crisp-on-the-outside-mush. This is also probably why I didn't see many highly regarded buttermilk brine recipes out on the web.
Though I might try it later on, because a lot of what I read talked about brining first, and then doing a buttermilk soak. Both for 24 hours. Which makes me wonder if a more easily prepared combination of highly salted buttermilk wouldn't turn out an equally delicious product. I guess that will have to wait...but maybe you're right, and it'll end up being a total culinary break through that will revolutionize frying chicken.
@ChelleyD01 A big reason for me not frying so frequently is the "fry-shack" smell that clings to house and body for days. If Crisco is the solution to that odor...then god help me...good thing I didn't resolve to cut back on fried food this year. And I love the panko/boneless chicken idea...unfortunately my cooking partner is insisting on something more classic :( I can't wait to try it later on though. I also love Alton to death, but am always hesitant to follow his recipes to the letter, but I'm that way with pretty much every recipe. In regards to his fried chicken- Was the flavor bland? Was the crust not crusty? I just want to catch any major flaws with the recipe before I commit my chicken to it. The FN.com reviews seemed overwhelmingly positive...then again, I've seen some Sandra Lee recipes get glowing responses.
Alyrmc at 5:11PM on 01/09/09
@alyrmc....yep, Crisco leaves no fry shack smell. Amazing, right?
As far as AB's chicken...it was just eeehhh. I guess its because in my mind I have AB as this amazing food artist and believe what he says is the gospel. I go through all the hoops in cleaning the chicken and marinating and flouring and find a big ass cast iron skillet and a thermometer and blah blah blah and it was just....meh. I had an insane mess to clean up after the chicken spatter all over, plus the heavy skillet and all the chicken grease not to mention the area of my kitchen floor in front of the stove....and it was just meh. I realized about 2 hours after breaking down my entire kitchen just how pissed off I was about the damn chicken.
Long live shallow frying on nice boneless chicken pieces!
ChelleyD01 at 7:57PM on 01/09/09
I've given up on Food Network recipes for almost anything and this holds true for any of the brine/soak/slice and dice recipies for fried chicken.
I go totally for a quick dredge -- flour, salt, pepper after a quick dunk in a bit of milk with tabasco sauce. Pan fry in cast iron skillet. I cook for 2, so my clean up mess is minimal. As for the shack smell, I have a good enough exhaust (non-commercial) that takes care of the problem. Besides, cooking it this way, you can hold the cooked chicken till the cows come home. I get crispy, juicy and tender chicken every time.
I say, try it both ways and decide which one you like best.
lochaven at 9:57PM on 01/09/09
After writing about fried chicken, I had to have it. So we did. I did a modified version of what was basically Brown's recipe. About an hour in buttermilk laced with Sriracha and then seasoned with a mix of salt, black pepper, cayenne pepper and garlic powder, dredged in plain flour and into a cast iron skillet with Crisco heated to about 325 degrees. It was completely delicious and juicy (really good chicken from Whole Foods). It would have improved with longer in the buttermilk, but for about 90 minutes start to finish, it was really good. I think an hour is the shortest time I'd do the buttermilk soak. I think it made a difference versus some times that I've just dredged and fried right away.
And two pieces left in the fridge for cold fried chicken with my coffee for breakfast!
ccbweb at 11:39PM on 01/09/09
When I actually think far enough ahead, I marinade my chicken overnight in buttermilk with salt and tabasco added. Just before cooking, I drain the meat, season with a mixture of cayenne, black and white pepper and then double dredge. I shallow fry it right away in a lard/butter mixture. The one thing I've learned to do recently is to be patient. In the past I cooked it at too high a temperature and scorched the outside before the meat was finished cooking. Now I take it slower; brown both sides, cover the pan for about 10-15 minutes and then uncover to finally allow it to crisp a bit. Those with a less adventuresome tongue could tone down the seasoning. As you can tell, I like to get the seasoning down closer to/into the meat, not the coating.
czken at 4:14PM on 01/10/09
You might also try Scott Peacock's method. Brine overnight. Rinse. Soak in buttermilk overnight and then fry in bacon fat seasoned lard. Yum.
jdmcdonald at 4:29PM on 01/10/09
i always brine my chicken in buttermilk and hot sauce. i usually leave it in the brine for a few hours or even overnight. you don't need any salt if you use enough hot sauce and the chicken is ALWAYS moist and delicious!
annaliesenc at 8:22PM on 01/10/09
One of my family's Favorite meals is fried chicken strips and mashed potatoes. They think I'm the best mom and the greatest cook in the world when I make this. (Which is hilarious)
Buttermilk; or even sweet milk if that's all I have, the purpose of the milk is the acid, to tenderize and moisten the chicken, Penzeys minced lemon peel, cayenne, black pepper and salt. Taste the buttermilk or milk. It should be a little salty, spicy and lemony. Slice your chicken breast or use chicken tenders. Put the chicken in the milk mixture and place in the refrigerator for a couple of hours. Dredge in flour with a little cayenne and fry in crisco in a cast iron skillet. They're small and don't have a bone so you want your oil hot enough to brown them more quickly than whole chicken pieces. Serve with mashed red potatoes with the peel. Yummy.
carolrsfMISSESTEXAS at 9:19PM on 01/10/09
If using a grocery store chicken, brine is fine. If using a free range chicken, then buttermilk would be preferred for it's tenderizing effect.
CJ McD at 10:32AM on 01/11/09
CJ McD: will you expand on why that is?
ccbweb at 11:50AM on 01/11/09
are you frying in Crisco oil or shortening?
I want to try the boneless, skinless way, so how much time should I allow myself?
renee59 at 8:01PM on 01/11/09
Always shortening for me now. I used to use oil but, ok can I say shortening isn't as greasy?
carolrsfMISSESTEXAS at 9:29PM on 01/11/09
Being from the South, I have tried frying chicken just about away possible. The best way I have found is using the salt water brine and letting the chicken sit over night in the frig in the brine. When I am ready to fry the chicken, I rinse the chicken pieces and put them in a wash of eggs beaten in cold water and Texas Pete hot sauce. Of course the wash has been seasoned with salt and pepper. I use Peanut Oil heated to a temp of appox 350 degrees in a heavy cast iorn dutch oven. When the Temp has been reached, I remove the chicken from the egg wash and put it into just a simple flour dreg and place in the skillet. I forgot to add I put enough Peaunt Oil in the dutch oven so the chicken can float around while it is cooking (.also Peanut oil does not burn like vegetable oil or butter).That tells me the chicken is done..when it is golden brown and is floating to the top of the pot.
One of the reasons I like to use the salt brine is because it pulls the blood from the bones of the chicken. I hate to eat chicken out and bite into a piece that has a bloody bone.
I don"t know if my way is the best way but my kids always wants me to fry chicken when they come home for Sunday dinner.
I found this site just browsing on my computer and I really like what I have seen so far. Hope my comments can help someone
pwilliams at 2:39AM on 01/12/09
I am a southern girl and will let you know how it is... Salt your chx and pepper you flour. You want to brine your chicken while it has just the slightest bit of crystals on it. Thaw it out and put in freezer about five to ten minutes the brine. Do not boil the buttermilk with lemon juice. It will sour it...milk and lemon juice do not mix well when heated. Brine,flour,fry. Do not wait,it will be gluey and sticky and that is not the southern way. The flour on the chx will draw it out of the actual chx so you will need more on the chx then on in the flour and yes pepper the flour it will not burn if you keep your grease under 315 degrees.And use Crisco. I do not think it matters if you use paper towel or rack. You want a little grease i the chx but not to the point of gross.I hope this helps. I have a pretty good recipe and everyone loves it...they will yours, too.
julien at 12:05PM on 01/31/09