Lard in NYC pizza dough
A coworker claims that lard is the secret ingredient that makes NYC pizza dough so delicious. Can someone here corroborate or refute this claim?
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17 Comments:
How many places in New York City make pizza dough? Is it just hundreds or is it actually thousands?
I will refute the claim based on the fact that with so many different places making dough, they're not all using the same "secret" with the only possible exception being the water.
ccbweb at 2:05PM on 12/26/08
Wouldn't lard make the dough flaky like pie crust? I mean, some places might (insert angry vegetarian face here) but I thought the ideal pizza was more chewy and crispy yet light on the inside rather than the type of 'mouthfeel' you're supposed to get with lard. Oh well, I'm in NJ....
HeartofGlass at 4:21PM on 12/26/08
That's not the secret. It's the water. NYers are lucky enough to have champagne coming from their taps. Not a day goes by I don't miss NYC water.
Call Bullshit on your co-worker and tell him/her to quit passing utterly stupid rumors like that.
chiff0nade at 4:49PM on 12/26/08
It is absolutely the water.
bubblegirl at 7:29PM on 12/26/08
agreed. lard has no place in this magical equation!
PAWriter at 7:38AM on 12/27/08
i guess you could always ask at a pizzaria if they use lard? just say you are vegetarian, or casual kosher.
it's the water. pizza crust and bagels in NYC are unlike anywhere else.
my mother used to say the bakers got their water from the east river, where mobsters would dump bodies, and that's why NYC bagels and pizza taste so good, but i don't believe her.
redhead at 1:27PM on 12/27/08
Maybe in Chicago where they eat a flaky "pizza" made with a fatty pie dough crust. But certainly not here in NY. NY pizza dough is essentially a bread dough, made with very little, if any, fat at all, and what fat may be used would almost certainly be olive oil for the better joints, some other nondescript vegetable oil for the vast majority. Here's a hint: it's cheap. Your friend is f-ing with you (or is a retard)
@ccweb: they all make their own dough, even chains like domino's etc. do it in house.
simon at 5:30PM on 12/29/08
Some of the Italian bakeries in Bklyn sell lard bread. It's really good and not flaky. I'm not sure I could imagine it as a pizza crust, though. The lard takes away the chewiness factor that comes from the mix of flour + water. But who knows?
LadyMarmalade at 2:25PM on 12/31/08
There's a secret to NY pizza dough? Like there's a secret to any food, made anywhere with any type of Homer crowd behind it? We earthlings certainly do love our myths, our emperors, and the new clothing that they wear. :)
PommeDG at 4:38PM on 01/01/09
I'm with PommeDG- it's not the water or the flour or any other magical ingredient. The thing that matters is the skill of the person producing the dough, and the care and attention to detail that they give it.
dmcavanagh at 6:32PM on 01/02/09
@simon, yep. I agree and that was exactly my point. The idea that lard is being used by that number of different places (and that no one would know this) is absurd on it's face.
ccbweb at 10:47PM on 01/03/09
I had a go at making pizza with 'lard bread' dough...or at least my take on it.
Results are here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/foolishpoolish/3769675211/
It tasted OK although the toppings were too salty. All things considered, I think lard is probably best used for casatiello rather than pizza.
FP
foolishpoolish at 10:55PM on 07/29/09
i have known one place here in maine that uses lard. it tastes very crispy (kinda cracker like). they also use meatball sauce as pizza sauce.
blizcheetah at 12:36AM on 07/30/09
Lard in pizza dough=yeast pie dough. Roll away, but away from me please.
dhorst at 1:11AM on 07/30/09
I second dmcavanagh's comments. This is an eye opening treatise on pizza for anyone that wants to learn the craft. Varasano’s Pizza Recipe.
Basics include proper technique when mixing/kneeding the dough, aging, use of natural/sourdough yeast for crust flavor, etc....
climbhighak at 6:09AM on 07/30/09
@dhorst
so no yeast in your pizza dough? I'm assuming you either like only cracker crust or chicago-style?
@climbghighak
Varasano's recipe while interesting in it's own right is hardly the be-all end-all of pizza. I'd say it's merely one of a myriad possibilities when it comes to technique, fermentation strategies etc. Despite it's length, it is rather dismissive/glosses over a number of factors which can make a big difference to the outcome of the crust.
You'd be surprised how good the lard is in the dough. It's not revolting by any stretch of the imagination - any more than adding olive oil would be. However, all things considered, it would not be my first choice.
FP
foolishpoolish at 6:43AM on 07/30/09
Lard was first used in pizza by Romans and is far superior than olive oil for baking in every way but one. It nearly never burns and is sweeter (as it is pork fat) and will maker a crisper crust(sorry that's just chemistry it's burning point is higher). But it is a heart attack waiting to happen so most NY pizza no longer uses it. And you can use it in any soda based recipe instead of olive oil not just yeast. So no pork lard can be used in any pizza Recipe as it is the Original ingredient NOT OLIVE OIL but it is as unhealth as it is great tasting. So you can use it in a soda recipe or a yeast. So sorry it is better tasting and was the original ingredient but is no longer used in most NY Pizza. My mom used to make a soda based crust with over a cup of lard in it and it was Heaven and would get you there to.
Here a old time Authentic pizza recipy as the romans used thow it is yeast based you could substitute 2 tsp. baking powder for the yeast .
http://www.bigoven.com/40005-Black-Pepper-Lard-Pizza-Dough-recipe.html
and here one for original NY pizza
http://www.fogazzo.com/html/pizza_dough.html
read on that page
Fogazzo’s Basic Italian Pizza Dough Recipe
jonathandw at 10:38AM on 10/09/09