MFK Fisher - Just a Little Word - Fair or Foul?
In 'Garum' MFK Fisher writes of the foodways of Ancient Rome. She discusses the overeating that occurred and the habit they had of quickly emptying their stomachs with emetics in order to eat more.
Then she writes:
The wholesale catharsis necessitated certain architectural changes. And suddenly these changes, luxurious privies to start with, metamorphosed once more. Vomitoria came into being.
Then after writing how little boys and girls hear the name with disgust only one person ever used the word in public with the proper 'reverence': Colette, who noted that a certain eclair vomiteusement chocolate.
Following that is
Romans, their minds less of future derivatives of the word than on their next course, used their vomitoria with appreciation.
The end of the piece lists a heavy banquet to be dined upon then finishes with:
A good old Roman custom - vomitoria! .
This has been in print since 1937. MFK Fisher is considered to be one of America's finest 'food writers'. Some people say that the word 'food writing' was practically invented for her, because of her then-innovative style of writing that blended fact with memoir.
Blending fact with memoir can be problematic in general, in writing. One either does not question, believing the writer of the tale to be telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth or one questions the writer's understanding of their own reality. Memory is a funny thing. It is not all that objective.
But here in this case is a telling of facts, but a telling of facts that simply is not true. Vomitoria is not something one vomits into, it is an exit from a building.
MFK Fisher may have been confused due to the general use of the word in her time. But then again she is an educator about food, and in this case writes as one, and one to be respected.
Fair or foul? Should this have been corrected by an editor or by the publishers at some point since 1937 with a note to explain this?
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80 Comments:
Don't you think this subject was adequately discussed in your "Glitches" thread?
izatryt at 9:51AM on 10/19/08
No, I don't, izatryt. If others do within the community, then of course they are free to ignore it and move on to something that interests them more.
Certainly if there is low or no response it would hint to me that this particular community is interested in other sorts of discussions and I could move on to another place where people were interested in discussing these things. :)
Chacun sa gout.
Let me go look for a hot dog and think about varieties of mustard as I wait to find out. Mustard, mustard, mustard. Or should it be ketchup. Will the question ever be answered? I don't know. It is vital to do so, though, obviously.
foodvox at 9:58AM on 10/19/08
And again, isatryt - for you this would of course not be interesting, as you noted before that you had not read MFK Fisher. And it is quite possible that you have never even heard of her.
There are so many topic threads on Serious Eats. Some stand where people just basically make up silly names or where they talk to each other with endless comments about how yellow mustard is Right and brown mustard is Wrong.
A little tolerance for this other sort of topic thread is being requested here, izatryt. Will you give it? Or will you snark.
foodvox at 10:11AM on 10/19/08
And finally - to make an even three comments (such a nice number, don't you think?) if there is no response, no commentary from SE readers on whether they should be reading things written that are true or rather things written that are not true (whether the author is someone in their daily realm of life or not) then I'm going to have to assume that the general readership here just does not care to be careful as to whether what they read is true or not, from their experts. I'll have to assume that the general readership simply eats and digests their media without thinking.
It is entirely possible this is so.
I'll be interested to find out.
Chomp chomp. Is it butter or is it Parkay?
foodvox at 10:32AM on 10/19/08
i need a little bit more kahlua in my ice coffee after that. and someone else needs a valium..
dearrie at 10:58AM on 10/19/08
Have to say that I'm not really put off that the essay has escaped editing. It seems to come under the old newspaper rubric of an anecdote "Too good to check," and apparently if used incorrectly often enough the word may even become accepted usage.
My favorite word in that respect is "gunsel." At one time it meant "homosexual companion" and according to mystery writers came to mean "pistol packing sidekick of a bad guy" when used in its original sense, ambiguously, by Dashiell Hammett in The Maltese Falcon as a way to tweak an editor. (See: http://www.worldwidewords.org/topicalwords/tw-gun1.htm )
SteveGNC at 11:01AM on 10/19/08
Do enjoy your early morning drinking, dearrie. If you are inferring that I need a valium, well no thanks. If someone else focusing too intently on something is an idea (while also not choosing to ignore ignorant comments that happen in the line of 'duty') is bothersome to you but you can't quite ignore it enough to simply ignore it, then maybe you need an two shots of kahlua in your morning coffee. Cheers! Do drink up till you are completely stupid, muddled and careless of things. It's one way to spend life, for sure.
Steve GNC - Thanks for your intelligent and interesting comment. It's good to try to place this thing into context within the genre of literature - it allows one to try to make an objective decision about it. MFKF has a way of meaning something in particular to women who read her at a certain point in time (pre-'foodie' - ha ha P.F.) that goes beyond anything simple or explicable. She entered our hearts in a very deep way. Therefore my questions as to ethos within this piece. :)
foodvox at 11:21AM on 10/19/08
burp
dearrie at 11:26AM on 10/19/08
I think there's a medicine called beano or something that might help with that, dearrie. Or maybe not. Maybe that fixes something else.
foodvox at 11:37AM on 10/19/08
illegitimi non carborundum ... ars longa, vita brevis.
Pavlov at 12:18PM on 10/19/08
@Pavlov ~ Amen!
PerkyMac at 12:22PM on 10/19/08
One has to wonder about that too, within this short life, Pavlov. Should one take it in the common (or 'vulgar') meaning ("Don't let the bastards grind you down"), or should one consider further.
..............................................................
;Ars longa, vita brevis
"Art is long, life is short". This is the Latin translation by Horace of a phrase from Hippocrates, and is often used out of context. The art referred to in the original aphorism was the craft of medicine, which took a lifetime to acquire.
Link
.............................................
"Ars longa, vita brevis" is a Latin phrase, part of an aphorism originally by the Ancient Greek physician Hippocrates, and is one of the sources of the popular English aphorism "Life is short."
In its original form in his Greek work Aphorisms, (sect. I, no. 1) it is “Ὁ βίος βραχύς, ἡ δὲ τέχνη μακρή” rendered in Latin as “Ars longa, vita brevis" and often translated as “Life is short, [the] art long." Or in its full form "Life is short, [the] art long, opportunity fleeting, experience misleading, judgment difficult. The physician must not only be prepared to do what is right himself, but also to make the patient, the attendants, and externals cooperate.” It is also famously quoted, slightly differently, by Seneca in his De brevitate vitæ (On the shortness of life).
Consider also Chaucer's “The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.” (from Parlement of Foules)
Link
....................................
As the saying stands without thinking deeply it could sound rather like a beer commercial gone wrong.
And goodness knows that too much beer drinking can definitely create longa arses among other things.
foodvox at 1:25PM on 10/19/08
"To twice slay the slain,
By dint of the Brain,
Is but labour in vain,
Unproductive of gain,
And so I shall bid you 'Adieu'!"
--T. H. Huxley
wookie at 2:21PM on 10/19/08
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses.
Pavlov at 2:54PM on 10/19/08
Ithway airway alityquay ofway onumentalmay oncerncay inway
ourway eatgray ountrycay, itway ouldway ervesay usway allway
ellway, ouldshay oneway imitedlay one'sway oviatingblay otay
oneway orway otway indyway iatribesday. Erelymay orfay ethay
akesay ofway allway umanityhay ofway oursecay, otnay otay
entionmay ethay anitysay ofway aidsay umanshay.
izatryt at 3:07PM on 10/19/08
I suspect that the editor didn't know any better. That hoary old chestnut of an anecdote has been around a very long time, and not many people, then or now, know the correct meaning of "vomitorium". Memoirs and food writing are not the same as news reporting, I doubt that MFKF had a fact checker, and an editor is not the same as a fact checker. Yes, it would be nice if somebody included a footnote someplace, but I doubt it will happen any time soon.
thepictsie at 4:16PM on 10/19/08
If I were searching for fame, posting this topic on SE would not be my methodry, Pavlov. And the thought of wanting to be thought a philosopher by anyone, specifically or in general, in this virtual world or in the real world, never crossed my mind. But I'm happy to listen to your own philosophizing in Latin posted within this topic.
thepictsie, point taken. But every published food writer I've ever known of has been sure to let their public understand that what they write is journalism - not fiction - and that their writings are to be respected as such and therefore subject to the same rules as any other journalistic writing.
wookie - I'm looking for comments on this. If I posted it twice it's because I thought I might be able to write it with a better heading that would attract people that would be interested in it. That it has attracted people who want to tell me they are not interested in the topic not is not surprising. That's the way of online commentary.
That I choose to answer their comments in a similar level of tone to theirs might not make me one who is above it all, but then I never said I was. :)
izatryt, you're one incredible person! Just look at what you've managed to put together there! Almost as fun as a barrel of monkeys!
Time is short, true. I've valued the several thoughtful answers posted but enough of the rest of the nonsense. Carry on with it, those who have the time. As I noted, the balance of typical answers in any given environment is interesting in itself.
foodvox at 4:47PM on 10/19/08
blah blah blah
dearrie at 5:01PM on 10/19/08
dearrie - after you learn (from the topic you posted) how to roast pumpkin seeds, I promise to try to listen to you just a little harder.
foodvox at 5:34PM on 10/19/08
are you flirting?
dearrie at 5:44PM on 10/19/08
Enough of your bloviating, insults and snide remarks, as always Karen.
"As I noted, the balance of typical answers in any given environment is interesting in itself."
foodvox at 4:47PM on 10/19/08.
I definitely agree. The most interesting I've seen is your aliases complimenting and having conversations with each other on your blogs, about how wonderful and talented you are.
foodvox aka Karen Resta aka Barry Fig aka Katerina la Vermintz aka BranstonPICKLE aka Moira Tuscanaro (a CAT) aka Carrot Top aka Ren Bejtman
Some therapy might be in order.
PerkyMac at 5:45PM on 10/19/08
i love you perky mac
dearrie at 5:58PM on 10/19/08
Foodvox is Karen Resta? That makes SO much sense (not familiar with the other aliases).
renzata at 6:02PM on 10/19/08
dearrie ~ Are you flirting? For the record, I am a perfect size 8. A proud 36DD (and yes, they are real!). Wait, does that count as an overflowing tub of lard? Maybe the Boops (that is what grandchild #1 used to call them), but that's it!
izatryt at 6:03PM on 10/19/08
PerkyMac - You have one alias only and no real name displayed to the public. The characters on my blogs are defined as fictional characters and I don't remember them ever going on about how wonderful and talented I (Karen) am - though they do have a lot to talk about.
Shocking that Moira is a cat, isn't it. No, wait. You wrote it CAT.
On the other hand, I remember your first post on SE - the one where you insulted a young woman's Thanksgiving meal she posted a link to a photo of . . . saying that it looked like cat puke.
You've shifted your comments a bit since then, haven't you. That's good.
I also realize (since you've noted it before) that you still shake with anger at the fact I once dared to post that I wasn't crazy about the morbidly obese who smelled bad who seemed to be quite apparent in some numbers at Wal-Mart. Tsk tsk. Whale away, Perky. What you think doesn't matter in the least to me. :)
And that is probably how it should be for you, with me. What I think shouldn't matter all that much, really.
Probably every person on earth could use therapy, BTW. Some pray instead. Some overeat. Some follow others around online haranguing them. Whatever. To each their own.
foodvox at 6:12PM on 10/19/08
@foodvox ~ You will be okay once the medication kicks in. Just go with it. I will have another glass of wine while we wait.
izatryt at 6:20PM on 10/19/08
Funny how many people commenting without answering the topic question on this thread are into meds and drinking. Fascinating. Careful when cooking if you're into that!
It's been fun, but I'm actually going to go cook dinner now.
foodvox at 6:32PM on 10/19/08
*hiccup* Damn, I hate it when my valium falls into my grape juice!
izatryt at 6:35PM on 10/19/08
i thought she was a he. hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa
dearrie at 6:41PM on 10/19/08
Nope! Well, now that I think about it, that could indeed be the case! Or maybe a she/he?
izatryt at 6:47PM on 10/19/08
Wow, and I clicked on this thread because I thought it was going to be a 'le scandal--MFK Fischer was bulimic!'
HeartofGlass at 6:52PM on 10/19/08
@ Foodvox - I majored in classics in college and my focus was Latin. The word 'vomitorium' indeed means the room MFK Fisher describes, which were indeed in use for a time among the very wealthy when banqueting was the primary means by which an aspiring politician among the senatorial classes proved his taste and wealth. She uses 'vomitoria' correctly as the plural.
producestories at 6:59PM on 10/19/08
i think someboby needs a playdate
dearrie at 7:10PM on 10/19/08
*nodding head in agreement*
izatryt at 7:14PM on 10/19/08
or new batteries.
dearrie at 7:21PM on 10/19/08
*Clapping furiously* LMAO ~
izatryt at 7:49PM on 10/19/08
So the word can mean either the passageways used as exit from a building or this particular sort of room, producestories? The references I've found only mention the first definition.
That would make sense, if true. And all would end well, with MFKF in the right. :)
Thanks for the information, very much.
foodvox at 8:00PM on 10/19/08
buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
dearrie at 8:14PM on 10/19/08
@foodvox - In Latin (I can't speak for other languages), anything involving the prefix 'vomit' ('vomitio', 'vomitor,' 'vomitorium' etc.) specifically means exactly what our English word "vomit" means - though apparently it was also used as a metaphorical insult. It makes sense that in later Latin the word was used (as e.g. Wikipedia indicates) to mean the passageways through which crowds "spewed" (and I can also imagine that given the general disdain most Roman authors of the Silver period had for the gladiator-match-going public, the double entendre was intentional).
While it's likely that rich Romans didn't build specific structures in their homes to serve as vomitoria, there is certainly literary evidence (which, by being unable to cite at the moment, is undoubtedly undermining my claim here, sorry) that designated rooms were used for this purpose. The amount of food eaten at these feasts was utterly insane - and even if guests tasted only a bit or two of each dish at the most elaborate of these banquets, there is simply no way most humans could keep all that food down at once.
producestories at 8:34PM on 10/19/08
@ Foodvox Ut proverbium loguitur vetus...
verba ita sunt intelligenda ut res magis valeat quam pereat. victoria concordia crescit.
Pavlov at 9:52PM on 10/19/08
A reminder to all - please keep your comments on topic and be respectful of others and their opinions. Personal attacks will not be tolerated.
Alaina Browne at 10:58PM on 10/19/08
This thread got so weird ...
PumpkinBear at 11:28PM on 10/19/08
producestories - there seemed enough evidence that the act had to be done, as you note. :) But not only wiki but an actual (assistant professor) who teaches a course on Ancient Rome told me that the word meant the hallways. I'm glad to get an answer on this. I also loved the other thoughts on 'how it could be so' - each one had some sort of insight which was really interesting.
Pavlov - I didn't start the topic looking for victory. I started it looking for information. :) But if I had started it looking for victory one might say that in the sense of looking at it as entertainment it certainly turned out to be that. Every good story needs a tussle, as do websites, in order to be 'sticky'. It didn't turn out that the tussle was within the topic, and a lot of it consisted of strange noises and commentary that ranged from people's talking about their burps or their boobs, but such is life. I won't take the time now to find the Latin way to say that right now. :)
foodvox at 7:01AM on 10/20/08
For a clearer and slightly less verbose explication of the issue, with references to sources of the period:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2421/were-there-really-vomitoriums-in-ancient-rome
HeartofGlass at 7:31AM on 10/20/08
I think what gets under my skin about this thread is the assertion in comment 4 that, if we are not interested in discussing the topic (and I do mean discussing the actual topic, not using it as a launching pad), then we are ignorant, passive, uncritical consumers of every bit of mis/information that passes our way. I.e., we are intellectually inferior to those that are interested in this particular topic.
The world is full of myths presented at fact, either consciously or unconsciously, and whether or not one is concerned about a fairly inconsequential example of that doesn't necessarily mean one has a Parkay brain.
And even if MFKF is totally wrong (would you prefer a proper subjunctive?), no, it doesn't disturb my esteem for her, because I see her first and foremost as a gifted writer, and one who wrote brilliantly about food and about eating. She is a master of the craft of writing.
renzata at 9:12AM on 10/20/08
I think even if MFKF had deliberately made an incorrect assertion in her writing for the sake of subject matter (which I do not). It will probably not affect a single little thing about my life. So someone feigning horror over the thought gives me pause to consider that someone may not have been hugged enough as a child. Now back to my painting by numbers....
Pavlov at 5:03PM on 10/20/08
stay in the lines.
dearrie at 5:20PM on 10/20/08
I should be ok... I'm using crayons... someday I hope to be good enough to use paint...
Pavlov at 5:34PM on 10/20/08
maybe.. christmas is only a few weeks away.. have you been good?
dearrie at 6:08PM on 10/20/08
"they" won't let me use paint because most brushes have a point at the other end.... have I been good?...hmmm..... the Dr. says I'm getting much better now... and so do the voices in my head....
Pavlov at 7:54PM on 10/20/08
well go ahead and paint. just don't run with the brushes. you don't want to smudge.
dearrie at 8:45PM on 10/20/08
@dearrie ~ You are too damn funny!
@Pavlov ~ You are too damn funny!
@izatryt ~ Oh wait! That's me. Never mind.........
izatryt at 11:00PM on 10/20/08
@izatryt==right back at ya.
dearrie at 5:22PM on 10/21/08
I am almost sad this thread has died. Laughing is great for the stomach muscles!
izatryt at 6:46PM on 10/21/08
it makes me feel all empty inside... maybe I'll just eat a crayon........
Pavlov at 7:02PM on 10/21/08
There, there now Pavvie.
izatryt at 7:22PM on 10/21/08
we already got yelled at once. but if you insist.
dearrie at 7:29PM on 10/21/08
it's funny how the peach one doesn't taste like peach at all.....
Pavlov at 7:29PM on 10/21/08
I Know! It tastes like chicken!
izatryt at 7:31PM on 10/21/08
I've been hiding under the desk. Is it safe to come out now? I think I smell chicken and pumpkin seeds?
PerkyMac at 8:05PM on 10/21/08
@perkymac - and hot dogs and mustard and crayons with notes of ...umm... I cant quite put my finger on it...
hammondcheese at 8:31PM on 10/21/08
@Perk ~ I just looked around and it looks pretty clear!
izatryt at 8:34PM on 10/21/08
I'll have a hot dog with spicy brown mustard and a blueberry crayon for dessert, if I may, please sir or madam?
PerkyMac at 8:42PM on 10/21/08
Perk ~ Would you like fries with that?
izatryt at 8:47PM on 10/21/08
@izzy - congrats on the new job!!!!
sure would. may i have them with malt vinegar and pink himalayan sea salt, if you please? i'll wait for the fresh out of the oil, after they send you to a gourmet shop. ;)
i'll be back for them later - have to go figure out what to make for my BLD (breakfast/lunch/dinner). getting hungry, finally. think it was the peach crayon that did it - eeeeeyyyyyyuuummmmmyyyy.
PerkyMac at 9:01PM on 10/21/08
all beef , turkey or tofu ? and may I recommend mac and cheese orange...it goes much better with a hot dog.
* giggle *
hammondcheese at 9:02PM on 10/21/08
@hammondcheese ~ gotta be Nathan's hot dogs (or those spicy ones from Syracuse - I can never remember the name). Don't know what's inem. Don't wanna know. ;)
PerkyMac at 9:11PM on 10/21/08
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO nathans..... Hans makes a good natural hot dog... and crayola makes a damn fine crayon... where is my toothpick....
Pavlov at 12:21PM on 10/22/08
@pavlov ~ I thought natural and hot dogs were polar opposites. Me thinks the Syracuse one has a natural casin'. I used to go to their restaurants and bring home the dogs by the case, but do you think I can remember the name?
You still drool teasin' those poor puppies?
Gotta give you major kudos on the "Maine-iack" directed at my dear friend izatryt. I gave a yelp (like your puppies) and fell off my damn chair. Hope she's laughin'. ;-) I would have expected that from LPC. He's losin' his perspicaciousness, slowly but Shirley.
Hard to remember to drop the gees, like Tina Fey, but I'm a tryin'.
PerkyMac at 12:51PM on 10/22/08
No ganging up on izzy, kids......
izatryt at 12:57PM on 10/22/08
No PerkyMac, hot dogs are our friends if done properly they are just a 5-4-3 ratio emmulsion and MUST be in a natural casing 30-35 preferably. I think you are thinking of Hofmanns "snappys" german franks.
I love Maine-iacks... I go up to Sebago lake quite often, in fact I will be up there in a couple of weeks. The only thing I don't get are those awful things they call "Italians" sandwiches.
Pavlov at 1:16PM on 10/22/08
How do you know so much Pavlov? I believe you're correct about the dogs, and I love 'em as long as they're not bland.
I have spent a lot of time over the years in ME, NH & VT. I learned the hard way what a frappe is.
Some of my closest friends are Italians, but I don't love them that much. Wonder where they get their raw ingredients? I'd stay away from Siciliy, personally. You know, Mafia & all? Could get dangerous.
PerkyMac at 1:25PM on 10/22/08
I probably know as much as the next person, I just happen to be a foodie like most here... as smart as some, less so than others. Food is just a celebration of life. Frappeeeeeeeeeee..... it's one of the words that gives me away as a yankee here in bama.
Pavlov at 2:05PM on 10/22/08
@renzata - in terms of an 'arrogant' attitude, it's possible I've shown it in this thread at times. If you look at the first response to the topic you might see why I would do so. If the charge is that I'm arrogant in general, so be it. I've heard that chefs have a high number of arrogant people in the profession. And as a woman chef if you are unable to summon arrogance you'll last about a week on the job (if even that long). That was even more true when I first entered the field. I've heard that the most successful lawyers generally have this aspect of personality also.
As to my arrogance as displayed at times on SE, two things happen that start it. The first is a lack of content that really interests me. The second is a focus on posts that seem sort of useless-in-general. My foul for getting upset about it. Honestly it is just better to walk away.
A lot of SE is the Talk section. And the people who post are actually providing content for the site, though in no way are they specifically linked to SE or paid for providing it (as far as anyone reading knows, anyway). The content providers that have been making up the bulk of the Talk section in the past six months or so have been developing a certain style that is not to my own taste at all. Whatever. Again, my problem not anyone else's. :)
As a chef I have no terribly deep interest in reading how someone followed a recipe from a book at home and how it came out. I'm personally not interested in restaurant reviews, though they are useful. And as someone interested in food culture and history, the only consistent parts of SE I can find that will day after day provide something new to read and interesting to read are the editorial sections written by Erin or Robyn, which are time and again excellent.
As far as the foodvox thing goes, I took that name when I started the blog (which for the moment actually has been stopped as I'm simply too busy doing other things). It was the use of a corporate name more than a personal name that was the goal in the shift online here, and SE understood that and approved it. There are other people on site who have done the same thing.
As far as the characters on my blog go - they were actually created through being inspired by the people who post online. What a variety of life is shown! I tweaked the types a bit to make them parody - though it is possible that they may be read as some people as "real" for whatever reason the reader has.
One has to wonder at times how many people posting online using aliases are actually 'real' - or whether they might be plaything personalities created by someone for whatever reason. One has to wonder sometimes (if one is not to be simply naive about the online world) whether the use of aliases allows the creation (without admission) of multiple online people by one person, again for whatever reason. I can think of more than one reason, some just due to nuttiness or desperation, some due to good business sense (good business sense used in a rather strange manner, true, but whatever . . .).
foodvox did sound male rather than female . . . and instantly upon posting with the name I got replies from people that showed that. What was interesting is that the tone of reply to the things I was saying (which all come from me and which tone was not shifted with the name shift to the corporate/male sounding one) were different. Things were 'taken' differently and replied to differently. People responded differently to someone they thought was a guy which of course is not surprising but to see it in action is fascinating.
...........................
Too verbose again? Well, that's okay. I'm done now and won't try this again, for the white noise in terms of posted replies is simply too much
for me to want to wade through.
@huneybumper - again, if you've waded through all this verbosity, my apologies. From here on in, maybe the topic will simply shift to all boobs and burps, etc.
The topic was not just as you summarized it in your desire get rid of the apparent verbosity, though. There are two large important components in this topic beyond the question of 'vomitorium' and those two components were MFK Fisher and the world of professional writing.
................................
Lots of free space to go on about hot-dogs-to-impress and boobs and burps, guys. Go for it! I'm outa here. :)
foodvox at 7:49AM on 10/23/08
Bye, Bye.......
izatryt at 8:57AM on 10/23/08
Don't worry guys, she will be back with yet another personality!
izatryt at 12:31PM on 10/23/08
If you happen to check back here (and no, i don't blame you if you don't), I'd like to clarify that I didn't call you arrogant, so it's questionable to me that you make such a point of turning an allegation I didn't make into a point of pride. I have no problem with the label either, and therefore don't think I would have used it here.
And I can understand the frustration with the level of discussion that can overtake the Talk section now and again. There's nothing wrong with wanting to engage in a more intellectual discourse. (Granted, apparently mundane topics can mutate into subtler discussions, just like this mutated into hot dogs and chatter that might be better suited to IM). And of course, you or any other user are free to raise any topic for discussion.
My problem is with the position you took that, if we aren't interested in your (very narrow and of questionable significance) topic, then that reflects some shortcoming in our intellect.
And some of us might come here for relief from intellectual rigor. I know I first engaged with this site as a break from studying, and I was all too happy to read about favorite cereals, etc. Sometimes it does seem to lean too heavily to the kinds of questions that can be answered with a single word. The difference, I think, is that when I have those thoughts, I prefer to read something else,rather than throw what amounts to a pretentious hissy fit.
We're not all--or always--as interesting as we think we are, and none of us are entitled to rapt attention to and enthusiastic exhaustion of our topics.
renzata at 1:14PM on 10/23/08
Soooo...... no more crayon talk?
Pavlov at 1:48PM on 10/23/08
Bravo, bravo, encore encore. This whole thread s/b printed and made into a short book.
pjracz10 at 4:50AM on 10/28/08
renzata - I understand your point that you escape your higher thinking in other things by coming here to discuss other things, and that if you want deeper discussion you'll read elsewhere.
If I had what you call a 'pretentious hissy fit' I'm glad I did. About time, I think. I've had them before, and each time - by the time I did it made me realize that it was time to do exactly as you say - read elsewhere.
I think you for the term 'hissy fit' used though - it shows clearly that you understand that foodvox is Karen Resta who is a person, a real one - and also a female person . . . for I've seen this sort of 'hissy fit' here on SE before thrown by a guy and the word hissy fit was not used as description of these sorts of things. I note this since as you appear to be a young woman entering the professional world you may notice these things those times when you are trying to put your own foot down. 'Hissy fit'. Or (?)
No, I haven't been back. As they say 'Things can go on without you' and I sincerely believe this. We all have to find our own places to be, and when the place one has been is one where little biting flies continue to swarm around it's time to move on.
One other note - my name and background are clear and can be confirmed. Many others commenting above are doing so with screen names - no real names attached. I've even seen photographs of people showing up on Facebook as 'people you may know' with their screen name attached - no real name. Are they real people? Are they straw people or ghosts - made up by an active imagination?
And as for the rapt attention to my topic, seriously - I didn't ask for it. All I asked was to be left to explore it without ongoing snipes from the same little biting flies who always seem to gather round to make themselves known by their hilarious one-liners (which can be read above).
LOL. LOL. As they say. LMAO, too.
All's well that ends well.
foodvox at 9:42AM on 01/25/09