Taking liberties with dish names
I recently saw tomato carpaccio made on Ming Tsai's show Simply Ming (which by the way I like and watch regularly). To me, it seemed like a stretch to be calling sliced tomatoes with soy balsamic syrup "carpaccio." Am I just being uptight or do I have a valid point? What are some dishes you've seen in restaurants or cookbooks that take naming liberties?
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33 Comments:
I agree w/you about that one, Have to think about the others I know of. The one thing that comes close is Sandra Lee's infamous Kwanzaa Cake.
pjracz10 at 1:15AM on 09/17/08
Taking liberties AKA creative license AKA bringing it back sexier AKA putting your spin on it.
This I first encountered watching Graham Kerr when I was a kid. This never changes and is not limited to just food.
JerzeeTomato at 2:44AM on 09/17/08
... and half SE's readership promptly thinks to themselves, "Who the flaming lips is Graham Kerr?" :-) I also have some great memories watching his "Galloping Gourmet". But yes, he's more than guilty here. For example, I have issues with his Fruit Fondue, which is chilled fruit dipped in a fruit/yogurt puree, actually being a "fondue".
LunaPierCook at 7:28AM on 09/17/08
I remember Graham Kerr : )
NanaJoie at 7:32AM on 09/17/08
I don't making cutesy names for dishes. Just call it what it is, and people won't second guess you. There's a difference between calling thinly sliced raw tomatoes a carpaccio and Sandra Lee's Kwanzaa cake. The idea of what she did to that cake makes me hurt on the inside. That, my friends, is how people get cut.
Trikki427 at 8:26AM on 09/17/08
Tomato carpaccio gives you a sense of what the final dish will be - thinly sliced, raw tomatoes - so even though it's not a classic use of the word "carpaccio", it still makes sense. "Extremely thinly sliced raw tomatoes" would be a bit much, and "tomato salad" wouldn't be descriptive enough.
Non-descriptive, inaccurate/misleading names are another thing entirely (like the "vegan nachos" mentioned on an earlier thread that were really pita strips and hummus, rather than tortilla chips with toppings).
producestories at 8:36AM on 09/17/08
Oh, puhleeeeze! Locally, restaurants have taken to serving the by-now-cliched molten chocolate cake but callling it something else - including chocolate souffle, which is the worst of all of them. Imagine expecting a souffle and getting a cupcake (which is how it's presented).
We need to practice saying, "That's not what I ordered," over and over again - and using the phrase.
lemons at 9:58AM on 09/17/08
I agree with you that dish names have taken a walk on the wild side. But I feel I should point out in the case of a tomato carpaccio, it is closer to the mark then you might think. Carpaccio supposedly refers to the resembalance to a painting by Vitore Carpaccio. So tomatos could look like a painting too, couldn't it?
Sweetie at 11:04AM on 09/17/08
I think some food names on menus are entirely misleading. As I said in another post, I usually read entree descriptions to DH because he doesn't bother. I've saved him from a lot of disappointments.
We do have a couple of misnomers for certain dishes that I prepare at home. During our dating years, I was making chicken parm for my then-boyfriend (now husband). Cooking vessels were limited in his tiny apartment, so I made the dish in an iron skillet and stuck it in the oven for the cheese to melt. While pulling it out, it was super heavy and as hot as a volcano. I promptly dumped the whole thing on the floor upside down. I collapsed in tears, and he felt so bad that he tried to lighten up the situation by telling me he never had chicken ala floor and was anxious to dig in. 26 years later, we still refer to chick parm as chicken ala floor, and it brings a nostalgic smile to both of our faces.
Josdean at 11:39AM on 09/17/08
When I first started making lo mein, I told my kids it was Chinese spaghetti. It made it something they understood. It's still Chinese spaghetti at home.
IndyGal at 12:42PM on 09/17/08
Ah, but family names are different. I wouldn't want to see Chinese spaghetti on a restaurant menu, but I'd smile if I was in someone's home and heard the story. Ditto chicken ala floor. We could go off wandering about cutesy names in restaurants, like the now-closed outfit whose menu offered a list of (their spelling, I promise you, not mine) sammiches. Don't talk baby talk to me, even in a casual restaurant. You run the risk of sounding patronizing.
lemons at 12:57PM on 09/17/08
@sweetie: you're absolutely correct. More specifically, it references the fact that Vitore Carpaccio used a lot of red in his paintings. So unless you're using green or yellow tomatoes (or just unripe tomatoes that are white on the inside--blech), technically it's an accurate term.
buffy at 2:07PM on 09/17/08
never heard about the kwanzaa cake, but i just googled it. -good lord! she's really on tv? oi vey....
gastronomeg at 2:16PM on 09/17/08
Carpaccio is a pretty current trendy term. I have seen lots of zucchini carpaccio's around and even a few cucumber ones lately. Just thin sliced and very simpy dressed.
katarina_santiago at 2:19PM on 09/17/08
I'm in agreement with "producestories"...even though carpaccio might refer to meat, tomato carpaccio still gives me an image that represents exactly what it is. So what's wrong with that?
Hillary
Chew on That
Chew on That at 2:22PM on 09/17/08
i also just googled the kwanzaa cake...holy toledo! no offense to toledo. the most shocking part is the number of people who actually tried to make it (see the reviews).
i agree that when i hear "tomato carpaccio", i think of very thinly sliced tomato. i think it's okay in that sense.
amaher40 at 2:39PM on 09/17/08
tomato "caviar"
apple-roquefort "ravioli"
potato "lasagna"
There's an article about this in Gastronomica, Spring 2008. The author compares modern menus to poetry; they must be interpreted to be understood, but like all metaphors, a patron may not guess correctly.
Keight at 2:58PM on 09/17/08
I usually put quotation marks around a word if I am using it that way, for example I once sliced up a bunch of veggies and served it as pasta with corn fritters that acted like meatballs. the name of the dish to me was Thai "spaghetti" and "meatballs"... one sec, let me find it...... here it is....
franklindelanobluth at 3:02PM on 09/17/08
ever eaten at fig & olive? They have like a 1/2 dozen carpaccios and some are straight veggies
downtownstef at 5:03PM on 09/17/08
Oh my good lord in heaven, I just took a look at the Kwanzaa Cake. I know that isn't what this "talk" topic was really about, but I was intrigued and so had to go see what everyone was talking about. That had to have been a joke, really. WHO in their right mind would actually take one look at that monstrosity of a dessert and think it even remotely looked yummy? That cake is insulting to my eyes...nevermind to my taste buds.
juliebugsmama at 11:01AM on 09/18/08
WHO in their right mind would actually take one look at that monstrosity of a dessert and think it even remotely looked yummy?
Well, juliebugsmama, that would depend on the number of cocktails consumed by 9am. But speaking about liberties with food names - how about a "No-Bake Daffodil cake" (from the same source as Kwaanza cake) - where "No-Bake" simply means that you buy a sheet cake, cookies and cupcakes from a bakery and "assemble" them into a cake. There is a "recipe" for it, I kid you not.
brooke29 at 12:11PM on 09/18/08
I know we aren't talking about Kwanzaa Cake per se in this thread, but I had to take a look at what the buzz is about. Just Googled it. Seriously??!! That hideous cake was on a show-and people made it?? What is appealing about it? That is the worst dessert I have ever seen. That should be taken off their website.
Butrflygirly at 12:21PM on 09/18/08
To jump on the Kwanzaa cake bandwagon - I make things with my 6 year old nephew that look better than that!
As for naming foods, I wish places would lean the difference between sauteed onions, and caramelized onions. It makes a difference! I could do without sauteed onions in my life, but I'll eat ANYTHING if you add caremelized onions (well, except maybe that kwanzaa cake...)
nalega at 12:57PM on 09/18/08
A few times, I've ordered a Caesar salad and was served romaine with a vinaigrette dressing and parmesan cheese. I really wished the menu had said something like "parmesan vinaigrette," or if they really must, "Caesar vinaigrette."
juliec at 1:00PM on 09/18/08
I think tomato 'carpaccio 'communicates an expectation of the dish I understand. However, if wafer-thin, perfect slices of tomato were not presented after ordering a thus-named dish, I probably wouldn't be happy.
Sam Breach at 1:40PM on 09/18/08
Wow. I had to see what all the fuss was about and googled the Kwanzaa cake. WTF? How does that woman have her own TV show??!! I mean, it ticks me off enough when rappers make millions of dollars on the stupid, incoherent drivel that comes out of their mouths, but for someone to make money off of a cooking show in which no actual cooking is done and the finished product looks that nasty...
buffy at 3:52PM on 09/18/08
I have been an avid anti-fan of her and her show from the beginning. How indeed is that a cooking show? I too googled the cake and echo "good Lord"! That looks sooo unappetizing. Unfortunately, they now have had a gazillion hits to that site and don't know that they were negative. How sad.
carolrsf at 5:33PM on 09/18/08
Anything stacked in layers is a "Napoleon." That drives me crazy. Tiramisu never looks the same twice.
...he never had chicken ala floor and was anxious to dig in. 26 years later, we still refer to chick parm as chicken ala floor, and it brings a nostalgic smile to both of our faces.
@josdean - (Applause) I loved that story. I hope you are both still that happy. Chicken a la Floor. I'm still smiling.
@juliec - The "Caesar" thing really bugs me too. I can count on one hand the times I ordered a Caesar and was presented with the correct salad.
@gastronomeg, amaher40, juliebugsmama, btrflygirly, nalega, buffy - welcome to the wonderful world of those who wonder how the heck Shamdra Lee got on TV in the first place!! I remember that "holiday cake" show. She managed to insult three cultures in a half hour. That's GOT to be a record.
Unfortunately, they now have had a gazillion hits to that site and don't know that they were negative. How sad.
@carolrsf - Oh, they know. TVFN had message boards at one time and the one for SHM was all negative. You can find reviews and lots of other snark at TWOP. I did reviews a few years ago and you'd have to dig them up but you'd probably enjoy them.
therealchiffonade at 8:23PM on 09/18/08
The "Tomato Carpaccio" seems to be a relative of the "Tomato Steak" one Top Cheftestant did a season or so back during a quickfire. I think it was the rainbow/colour one, where Tre, who was colourblind, was in the top group. Can't remember if he won or not.
@lemons - good not about menus using the wrong name for things. I wonder if some of the so-called souffles that come out as molten chocolate cakes simply fell, and the cooks hope that nobody notices?
morgancain at 9:42AM on 09/22/08
I'm patting myself on the back for first mentioning the monstrosity known as Kwanzaa Cake. I hate that this woman has a show and I don't. I have more creativity in my eyelash than she does. Second of all, I'd forgotten about Carpaccio being a painter and the nature of his work. Thank you@ Sweetie for bringing the topic back to basics.
Food is poetry but it should not have to be interpreted, only dissected.
Trikki427 at 10:49AM on 09/22/08
Meow! Good golly, Miss Molly, how can you hate someone you don't even know? Maybe you don't WANT a cooking show as badly as she did. Maybe you couldn't "keep up" if you got one. I seem to remember reading that last year's winner of The Next Food Network Star competition (or whatever it's officially called) worked out her first year and said "no thanks" to further episodes. She cited back-biting, nastiness and exhaustion as reasons. Hey, maybe you COULD make it cooking on TV.
expat39520 at 12:31PM on 09/22/08
expat
There are thousands of people that think sandra lee and her so called cooking show is a joke...and it is. Like a lot of people, I looked at her God awful list of things she threw together...canned pie filling in the center of a store bought angel food cake and corn nuts on to of canned frosting and pop corn and topped off with big ass candles...my only suggestion id to replace the candles with dynamite!
Sorry to bad mouth your cooking idol, but she sucks...and so does food tv...haven't watched their disappointing network in years...thankfully, there are great cooking shows on PBS!
As far as taking liberties with dish names..I couldn't agree more.
A good example would be Caesar Salad...listed on a menu and pasted off as lettuce (and not even romaine!) covered in some awful dressing...sometimes ranch...topped with a few plain pieces of dried bread cubes and maybe a little grated cheese...obviously no Parmesan
AG4JAZZ at 3:26PM on 09/22/08
Sandra Lee's problem is that she was born 50 years too late. If she had been doing this in the late 50's we'd be looking at her work in The Gallery of Regrettable Food, where it truly belongs.
RI Swampyankee at 10:50PM on 09/22/08