Dining with kids
I don't have children, but yesterday I had a 'birthday lunch' (today is my birthday!) with a good friend of mine and two of her children. The lunch was great and my friend's kids are great--very polite and bright but I did notice that her daughter, age 9, was very adamant about ordering plain, buttered pasta NO SAUCE (gasp) and the boy (who ordered raw clams and ate them) spent a good portion of the meal with his head on the table, the better to see his Gameboy.
Just wondering--for those of you with kids or who see kids on a daily basis, when do they outgrow the 'buttered pasta/mozzarella stick/chicken fingers' only phase and when did you kids acquire the manners to eat at a 'fine dining restaurant'?
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17 Comments:
My 9 year old daughter has been going to restaurants since I adopted her at 8.5 months. We tend to frequent family type places like Kelsey's and Boston Pizza and the like, but she has also been to higher end places, including hotels and cruise ships.
She still orders from the kids menu - the portion sizes are more appropriate for her. I find most kids menus are quite limited - Boston Pizza has added a salmon fillet to theirs but other than that, it's the usual suspects. She tends to order chicken fingers or pizza but I'm not surprised - these are "treat foods" to her and different from what she gets at home. That being said, when I took her on a cruise, she tossed the kids menu after the first day when she realized she could have salmon and brocolli - which she did for the rest of the week! She's not an adventurous eater by a long shot, but she loves her fish!
Re manners - I don't allow video games or TV during meals so sometimes the TV in a restaurant CAN be a distraction (not often tho since they are usually playing sports and she is not particularly interested). We do often play games while we eat - like hangman or tic tac toe - kind of a tradition - but only if it is the two of us. Other than that, she is expected to act properly, as she does at home.
Maureen at 9:20AM on 07/21/08
I'm going to be daring and put my own two sense in about this...with no offense to your friend, in my experience, kids eat what they are given for the most part and manners are learned. I don't have kids, but I did help raise a younger sibling and have seven nieces and nephews, not to mention having taught and tutored young kids for years.
My sister's kids favored liverwurst and muenster cheese sandwiches at age 3. I recently tutored twin 10-year-olds whose favorite foods are sashimi, sweet potatoes, and roasted kale. My nephews/nieces have always been able to be taken to just about any kind of dining establishment and practiced manners, but I've also worked with kids who came to summer school with cheetos-stained fingers first thing in the morning.
So while some kids are just naturally picky with foods, I think all kids can have at a palate that at least expands beyond chicken fingers and pizza, so long as the parents make a great effort to stretch them in that direction.
As for the video games at the table...that's just up to the parent. I'm a strong believer in not putting kids in situations that set them up for failure (such as taking an active six-year-old with you while you clothes shop all day), but when kids become used to habits like playing at the dinner table, it will be harder for them to do otherwise in more formal situations. It really comes back to what's allowed at home and the overall level of discipline.
savecara at 9:56AM on 07/21/08
I think that the state of manners and parenting in the US is horrifically lax.
If I had brought anything to the table that was not part of the meal it would have been removed from the table.
Why do people feel they have to entertain their children at meals and car rides. This DVD player in the car thing is a terrible standard. Let your children read books and not at the table. OMG I am on a rant. Mp3 players do not belong on your head unless your sitting in your room or in the car(not driving). Not at the dinner table or at a public place where people are speaking to you. Cell phones and kids, whole other rant.
It is a parent's responsibility to socially educate their children. You give a baby a rattle. You give a baby pastina with butter and cheese.
If you do not teach your children manners and how to speak to adults, other people and each other the result is the children become socially inept adults. We have met these people. They talk on the phone in public bathrooms. They eat crap food and they act like they need entertaining.
OMG rant.
JerzeeTomato at 10:29AM on 07/21/08
What is wrong with buttered pasta? I LOVE plain buttered pasta! I have a 5 yr old and a 3 yr old. I do not allow extra items, like a gameboy, at the table. I don't really see it as "rude"- I just want them to talk to me instead. I think it is rude to have kids running around or yelling but maybe your friend thought you would prefer her kids were silent so you would have more fun on your special dinner.
love2cook at 10:58AM on 07/21/08
It drives me crazy when restaurants assume all my kids will eat is fried chicken bits or a hamburger. We travel all over the world and my kids have developed a willingness to try different foods, because that's how they were raised. Generally I emphasize that the purpose of dining with friends and family is to enjoy delightful conversation, so they know they cannot bring books or gameboys. That said, if I know I will be gabbing at length with friends who will not include them in the conversation, I will let them bring a gameboy for use after the meal ends.
chari at 11:32AM on 07/21/08
I don't have any kids, but based on my upbringing, observing my relatives and their kids, I have to agree with what most people have said above - it's the parents.
My mother used to dress me up and we'd attend formal dinners at restaurants as a child. I was able to read by 4, so I was ordering my own meals, as well as able to use a fork and knife, so I could cut my own food. I'm sure she was happy about that.
Now, given the choice of unruly kids screaming and running around at an adult (read: boring to kids) party or ones playing games at the table, short of tying them up and putting a ballgag in their mouth, I'd let them have their GameBoy. :P
Happy birthday. :)
Cassaendra at 12:32PM on 07/21/08
I suspect kids need to be twelve or thirteen to really act like adults at a restaurant. Before that there are a few compromises to be made.
My granddaughters are eight and nine. They spend weekends with me. We usually eat one "tablecloth restaurant" meal each week. We draw straws every three weeks so each of us gets to pick a restaurant.
The girls are allowed to order what they like within reason. Buttered pasta, noodles or rice is stilll a favorite of the eight year old. I think that's her way of getting something safe and consistent. I always offer them a bite of whatever I have. They usually give it a try but "no thanks" is OK.
They are not allowed to bring anything to the table except for a few occasions when a very new or special stuffed animal joins us and sits at any unused place at the table. Most servers are nice and playful about that.
Once when the girls were five and six they made some sort of a rumpus at a restaurant (I honestly don't remember the details but I'm sure they do!). I marched them straight to the car. Several other diners nodded congratulations as we made our teary exit. Of course, I went back in and paid when the girls were safely in the car. The owner of that restaurant now greets us as his "favorite customers".
Blue Iris at 1:53PM on 07/21/08
Yes, I think that was the reason for my friend's allowance of the Game Boy--so we could have 'grown up talk.' I'm not particularly fond of buttered pasta (or pasta, period) but the only reason I mentioned it is that I know many kids who seem to exclusively dine on buttered pasta and chicken nuggets, and I was just kind of wondering when they grew out of that phase--the girl was very well-behaved and didn't open her Game Boy, incidentally so I certainly wasn't using buttered pasta to condemn her manners!
HeartofGlass at 2:08PM on 07/21/08
"You'll eat what you're given -- and you'll like it. Or you won't eat at all."
That always worked for my parents when I was a kid. :)
FastFoodCritic at 2:59PM on 07/21/08
@HeartofGlass - Happy Birthday!
I don't have kids. I remember when my brother and I were little, eating out was reserved for special occasions only, and like Cassaendra, we were dressed up and - I frankly don't recall any specific lectures given to us by our parents (I doubt there were any), but we somehow knew to behave on such occasions.
I've seen 5-6 year old children behave at fine dining restaurants, and I've seen 10-11 year old brats scream, run all over the place and throw tantrums in public places (restaurants, shopping centres, etc). I guess manners are, indeed, an integral part of one's upbringing.
brooke29 at 4:27PM on 07/21/08
I've seen thirty-something men with atrocious table manners who only order chicken fingers and pizza. I think some kids never quite grow out of it. ;)
jenilowrance at 4:27PM on 07/21/08
My mother took me to restaurants whenever she went for lunch with her friends, mostly because there was no way to afford lunch AND a babysitter. And whenever she was with her friends, I was expected to be quiet, not join in the conversation or interrupt them with my own needs. That's just how it was. I don't remember this being taught to me, it's just the way it always was, so it must have been something I learned quite young. And for the most part, it was okay with me because I'd sit and listen to the gossip like it was some sort of soap opera.
On one occasion, her friend brought her kids, and I was absolutely STUNNED when these kids got up from the table on their own. There was some kind of coin-operated game in the area by the bathrooms and they proceeded to bug their mom for coins to play the game. And they got the coins. Several rounds of coins. I think I might have left the table once to check it out, but I came back pretty quickly. It seemed wrong and uncomfortable to me.
As far as the original lunch question, I think that if I was having a special lunch with a friend, I'd rather have the kids playing with a gameboy than busting into the conversation to tell me about the kid who sits in front of them at school. Yes, kids need to learn how to converse with adults, but they also need to learn that there are times when it's adult conversation and they don't need to be part of it. If playing with a gameboy keeps them quiet, I'd be happier with that than with having them wandering around the restaurant as I've seen some kids do.
As far as food preferences, in my opinion, a restaurant ought to be the place where you get to order whatever you want, and that goes for the kids, too. If pasta and butter is what the kid wants at the moment, this is the time to indulge and let the kid have it. At home, you eat what's served to you. And I'd rather have the kid order something he/she will eat, rather than insist on saucing the pasta and the kid refusing to eat it because it's not the way mom makes it.
dbcurrie at 9:00PM on 07/21/08
Our parents used to take my brother, sister and I, (born 50's style at three year intervals), to restaurants of all types on a regular basis. I'll always remember how proud they were when other diners would compliment our manners, so I've tried to observe that practice myself.
Last year GF and I took her daughter, SO, and five kids (11, 4, 4, 1, 1), to a family style restaurant following an outing to the zoo. To our surprise, they all behaved quite well. In fact, a man dining alone at a neighboring table was moved to comment on their good behavior. It turns out he came from a family of thirteen kids, so perhaps his standards for good table behavior were quite broad, but it was still nice to hear.
srhcb at 9:56PM on 07/21/08
@Cassaendra - where does one order a ballgag? I could have used one for my best friend's son. Then maybe I wouldn't have had to move 9000 miles!
I actaully miss them horribly, and that's not why I moved, but it is embarrassing to be in a restaurant with a child that looks enough like you to me your son (his Dad and I bear a strong resemblance to one another) that is running around, screaming and flailing..
I too, was brought up in fine restaurants (had tea at the Ritz in London at 4) and ate pretty much everything. I was allowed to order lobster at 7 and quite frequently did, to my parents' chagrin :-)
How the difference in behavior happens, since I have been there my friend's son's whole life up till now and can vouch that she is a good mother, confuses me, and has actually caused me to hold off on having children!
cowprintrabbit at 2:16AM on 07/22/08
Thank you so much for the lovely birthday wishes, brooke29 and Cassaendra! It really means a lot to me :)
Oh, and Blue Iris, I still remember the days with great fondness when a special stuffed animal or doll would be a 'guest' at one of my dining out experiences as a child.
I often remember loving restaurants that gave menus to be colored with games, often with information about the menu or 'brain teasers' that were quite fun, and sometimes going 'the extra mile' to be child-friendly can make for a more pleasant dining experience for all. Once again, I don't mind the Game Boy, but with some nostalgia think that things like games or even small toys are more 'social' to be enjoyed by kids and adults together, rather than the isolating experience of a game.
Interesting regarding the television--I suppose what is really saddening is how many restaurants for adults have TVs, and people just stare at the screen rather than interact with one another.
HeartofGlass at 5:29AM on 07/22/08
My 10 year old has been a restaurant baby since she was 3 weeks old. The rules are pretty simple. Yes, she may bring her Nintendo DS or her iPod to use AFTER ordering, basically to keep her busy until her food arrives and I can have a conversation with whatever other party I am with. When her food arrives, it is to be put in her purse and not touched again until dinner is over and we are on our way home.
She is now getting to the point where she is exploring off of the kids menu. Usually she hits the appetizer section and is generally very happy with a bowl of wedding soup and a side salad OR her new fave, a side of fettuccini alfredo. She always munches whatever apps we have as well as the bread basket so I generally have nothing to bitch about. Every once in awhile she will still debate chicken fingers but skips the fries and has the soup.
Im teaching her to put up jam today. I hope she asks Santa for a canner for Christmas.
ChelleyD01 at 9:47AM on 07/22/08
I have a 10 and an 8 year old. They both are great at restaurants, in public in general. I have been taking them to places ( reastaurants, museums, zoos etc) since they were days old. My oldest will order from the kids menu but in certain places she prefers the adult menu. Like Applebees she will eat the chicken alfredo. My youngest likes black beans which at Chilis is on the kids menu. Both of my kids have loved spaghetti since they were little but on occasion will get just noodles with butter and parmesan cheese.
Another thing my girls love is salad. If I get a salad they help eat it. Many times we order them their own.
I believe manners is something that has to be refined constantly. you cannot go into anywhere and expect your kids to know exactly how to act. If we are going somewhere they haven't been I explain what it will be like and how they should act. I also do this when we take their friends out with us. Not that their friends are unruly but when you get a group of 8-10 years old together it is far too easy to get giggly.
I also do not let them take a video game in the restaurant. If I know the place doesn't cater to kids I will bring pads of paper and pens or color pencils to give them something to do. They love to draw and after they create the masterpiece they can easily become part of the conversation by explaining what they drew. Everyone is happy, including the other patrons of the restaurant
mommyme at 11:58AM on 07/22/08