PrintDo you make your own stock or do you cheat a little?
I always want to make my own stock; it is supremely superior to canned or box o' broth, but I normally don't have the time and often can't get the bones from the butcher. When you make stock, whose recipe/process do you use? I've used several and I've determined the next batch will be Michael Ruhlman's. I used my own stock for the last batch of risotto I made and it was just superb, if I don't say so myself!
There have been comparisons done by CI and FC recently that recommend Swanson as the top preferred commercial broth/stock. I usually get the case of it at Costco to have handy when I don't have homemade. I don't have any big complaints with it, but tried Trader Joe's chix broth in a box and didn't like it one bit.
Any tips you'd like to pass along for making stock?
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46 Comments:
I'm a huge fan of homemade stock and plan on trying Ruhlman's veal stock recipe as soon as I can source the bones cheaply and conveniently. For chicken stock, I don't really use a recipe, but generally stick with 2-3 lbs of bones and .25 tsp salt per gallon of starting liquid, then a healthy amount of carrot/celery/onion/parsley in the last hour or so. A few tips?
• Start with cold water
• Keep it at a simmer or below (I like 180-190'F)
• Skim early and often until the grease and scum is completely gone
• The longer the simmer, the better--a minimum of 6 hours, up to 10 or longer
• Strain well, especially if you're concerned about clarity
When cheating and using store-bought stock, I like Swanson too, though do find it a bit lacking. Julia Child recommends simmering store-bought stock with a bouquet garni, which I've found works well. Also, if I have the time, I'll reduce store-bought stock with a vigorous boil to concentrate the flavors before using.
slogger at 2:27PM on 02/20/08
I like Kitchen Basics brand stock. Infinitely better than Swanson's.
bitchincamero at 2:37PM on 02/20/08
and p.s. I cheat. A lot.
bitchincamero at 2:37PM on 02/20/08
I cheat.
I either buy veggie stock, or I save the liquid I use to cook beans or rehydrate mushrooms. Making homemade stock seems like a big waste of the vegetables I would rather roast or stir fry.
KarynMC at 2:38PM on 02/20/08
Besides the conventional method, I save the drippings from broiled chicken after discarding the fat. It is a gel consistency and flavored from the seasonings on the chicken - usually s&p, butter or olive oil, herbs and maybe some lemon juice. I freeze it and it is just loaded with flavor. Couldn't be easier, since I love broiled chicken. I can use that alone or add to stock.
My favorite "cheat" is to use the broth from Mrs. Grass noodle soup mix in a box. I think it beats all the canned and boxed brands hands down.
PerkyMac at 2:42PM on 02/20/08
I like to make my own broth, I have a ziploc bag in the freezer with the ends of celery bunches, carrots, onions and some chicken bones from a hen I deboned...I keep adding to it until I'm ready to make some stock.
My favorite "cheat" used to be Swanson, but decided it has too much salt and not enough flavor after I tried 'Pacific Natural Foods' brand organic, free range chicken broth. Great flavor. I buy it by the case at Costco.
This is the next best thing to homemade. And its gluten free if that matters to anyone.
wookie at 3:05PM on 02/20/08
Until recently, I always made my own stock. Chix and beef. I rarely if ever make veggie stock.
When I first started cooking, we were given one choice for canned chix broth: College Inn. Obviously not even a consideration. It was way too salty for me and basically, that's when I started making my own stock.
Well, prepared stock has really come a long way. I proudly use both Pacific and Kitchen Basics. I have to really be convinced by multiple tries with a product before I will pick it up in the supermarket as "second nature" and without a second look.
When I have enough time and freezer space, I'll always opt to make my own stock, however, it's nice to have commercially available brands I can use.
chiff0nade at 3:17PM on 02/20/08
I make my own chicken stock, but I buy beef stock or soup base for other types of stock. I used to follow Amanda Hesser's recipes from The Cook and the Gardener, but she's too fussy. Then I found a slow cooker recipe by Rick Rogers in his Slow Cooker Ready and Waiting Cookbook. Now I just use my own slow cooker method which is literally a "set it and forget it preparation."
I accumulate certain kitchen scraps I keep in my freezer: cooked chicken carcasses or uncooked chicken necks and backbones, etc.; tops of leeks; and tops of fennel. When those bags get full, it's time to make stock! I'll add whole seeds such as black pepper and coriander; a bay leaf or two; and possibly some fresh herbs such as parsley, thyme, or rosemary. Place in as much of the preceeding as your slow cooker will hold (mine is 6 quarts). Cover with water leaving about an inch of headspace and cook on low for 4 to 12 hours. This is easily done on a weekday either overnight or during the day. The longer it cooks the deeper the flavor and color, even if you don't have a lot of chicken to begin with.
There's no browning of bones or vegetables or anything. If you want to add carrots, onion, or celery go ahead. The bone marrow and cartilage will soften and melt into the stock. I strain it into my pasta pot to remove the scraps then boil the stock down to about a quart or so. Refrigerate so the fat will solidify on top so you can discard it easily. At this point you should have a gelatinous mass due to the cartilage breakdown. Then I just fill an ice cube tray and use the cubes as necessary. The stock is highly concentrated at this point so I'll use a cube or two and add enough water to make one cup of regular stock which is inherently low fat AND low salt.
Otabenga at 3:19PM on 02/20/08
I mostly make my own stock, but I do always keep boxes on hand. Never, ever, EVER do I use Swanson's -- in my opinion, it's flavorless at best, and downright bad-tasting at worst. My go-to brand, the one I go out of my way to buy, is Imagine Organic. It's the closest thing to fresh-cooked I've been able to find. If I have no choice, I'll go to Pacific Natural Foods, but lately theirs has had a strong bullion flavor. For beef broth, the only one I will use is Kitchen Basics.
As far as making it goes, there are certain techniques I employ consistently. I use only enough water to just cover the ingredients. I never allow it to reach a boil. Once it's at a slow simmer, I cover it and leave it alone. I never, ever stir it. When it's done, I ladle the broth out, being careful not to disturb all the "junk" in the pot.
Other than that, I don't have any one recipe, per se. However, I do always use whole, unpeeled yellow onions (the skin is flavorful, and improves the color of the stock); lots of celery with leaves (the essential flavor in my mind); at least one peeled carrot, sometimes more (must be peeled or the stock tends to take on a bitter flavor); salt; whole peppercorns; fresh parsley; and fresh thyme or dill (depending on the planned usage). Sometimes I'll throw in some veg scraps, like tough leek greens, asparagus ends, a few bits of tomato, mushroom stems, etc. Sometimes I'll use some additional herbs. It just depends on what I have on hand, and what it's going to be used for.
As far as the chicken goes... well, that's where I'm incredibly inconsistent. Sometimes I make it from the carcass of roasted birds. Sometimes I make it from wing tips, necks, backs, the bones from breasts, etc., most of which I collect in a ziploc in the freezer until I've got enough to make the stock. Since I usually debone my own breasts, it doesn't take long to get enough. Most frequently, I just poach a bird expressly for the purpose of making stock. The second the meat is cooked (maybe slightly undercooked), I strip it from the bones and return the carcass to the pot to finish off the stock.
BTW, if you've never tried it, chicken stock works really well in a slow cooker. Just be sure to use less liquid as there will be no evaporation.
LoCo at 3:20PM on 02/20/08
I always make my own, the canned and boxed crap doesn't compare. Some cheats I can justify, but homemade stock is something I always have in my freezer.
Lilartist at 3:20PM on 02/20/08
I typically used boxed...I'm lazy like that. However, if I have a day in which I have the time to tend to making stock, I do it (which is hardly EVER). However, under any circumstances, never, EVER use seafood broth! OMG --- it destroys everything you put it in. I should have known just by the smell when I opened it. It was like a decade full of sweaty gym socks in a dingy locker room smell....GAG!
jcrisco at 3:25PM on 02/20/08
I always make my own, just because it tastes so much better! Truth be told, both my Gran and my Mum always made their own stock and I just assumed it was the only way to do it:-). But seriously, I don't see it as a big deal at all (it's not like making your own pasta or puff pastry dough:-)). I probably make stocks pretty much the same way my Gran and Mum used to (which is pretty much the same way described by Ruhlman in his "Elements of Cooking"), but I wouldn't even call it a recipe. I use my "guts" to determine quantities (I tend to make richer, concentrated stocks and later "cut" them with some water, if necessary). I usually make beef or chicken stocks in a slow cooker - as far as I see it, it's the perfect "stock-making machine". You can leave it overnight, or start in the morning and it will be done by the end of the day. I agree with slogger's tips otherwise - start with cold water and skim (the slow cooker takes care of the simmer at a right temperature). Other than your standard carrots, onions, celery, bay leaf, etc, I love using fresh herbs as aromatics sometimes (like a bunch of fresh dill in a chicken stock, or some fresh sage when I make a stock I know I'll be using for a butternut squash soup, etc). I freeze stocks (in ice-cube trays, and when frozen, transfer them to a larger freezer-safe container or plastic freezer bags), so I pretty much always have them on hand.
When I make shrimp stocks (for my shrimp & scallop risotto, for instance), I only simmer it for about 40-50 minutes (usually, it takes the same time to make the shrimp stock as it does to brine my shrimp, so it all works out nicely:-)). I don't specifically make or buy vegetable stocks though - like KarynMC, if I rehydrate dried mushrooms for a mushroom soup, I use the mushroom-y liquid in the soup, etc.
brooke29 at 3:46PM on 02/20/08
Here's another vote for the Imagine and Pacific chix stocks. My local Hannaford also carries Wolfgang Puck's Chix stock, which I've tried and liked. The College Inn and Swanson's (both low-sdium) were my old standby's until being beat out in flavor by the others above.
For beef broth I now use Kitchen Basics.
moibec at 3:51PM on 02/20/08
Thank you all for a wealth of information! My family always made their own stocks and soups so I also assumed, as a kid, that everybody did it that way. I can't ever remember mom browning beef or veal bones, but we had rich beef soup with long simmered beef chuck roasts that were a staple in our household. I most often have difficuty getting the good bones, though. Does anyone else? Do I need to schmooze up a butcher?
I have seen Pacific chicken broth at Costco and intend to get that the next time. I've tried it and Imagine and like them both for broth-in-a-box.
I have never tried stock-in-a-crock, but that is a tremendous innovation that I will be doing soon. Also, reducing the ready made broth and adding a smidge of glace de viande or demi-glace would be so much better!
@perkymac - I never thought of saving the gel in the freezer. It's almost like having demi-glace. Cool.
@LoCo - When you use an already cooked bird carcass, do you add any additional raw poultry for flavor or do the remains impart enough? I saved my Tday turkey carcass, because my husband brines and smokes our bird (and I thought it might have a really interesting taste), but I didn't know exactly what to do with it, so I ended up disposing of it. I felt very guilty for wasting the bones, though.
Brilliant tips!!!
frederika at 6:09PM on 02/20/08
I use the jarred stuff "Better than Boullion"
sidenote: Last night my sick boyfriend looked at me weird when I confessed to not making "real homemade soup" and I said that I was "cheating and using canned stock" I made the homemade noodles, and chopped my fresh veggies & chicken. I guess I felt guilty cause my mom always it from scratch- stock & all.
He apparently has only had the variety of girlfriend who opens a can of Campbell's when he is sick. ....So I guess I should hush!
bisbee at 6:41PM on 02/20/08
I use a lot of aromatics in my cooking, so I often just use water, and it's quite flavorful. I'm vegetarian, so I'm not using meat stocks anyway. But, Pacific mushroom broth is so good, I'm practically evangelical about it. I use it for mushroom risotto and it's phenomenal. I don't think I could make mushroom stock from scratch THAT good. I hope they continue to make it for a long time, since I can't imagine making some of my favorite dishes without it.
FigswithBri at 6:45PM on 02/20/08
i always make my own. here's a really easy and surprisingly good vegetarian soup stock: sweat an onion and some garlic in 2 T butter and a splash of olive oil, add salt and pepper. add a little crumbled thyme and a couple of tablespoons of nutritional yeast and cook for a few more minutes. add a bay leaf and some chopped parsley and a few cups of water. let simmer for about 20 minutes. add a bit of lemon juice if you like. strain, and you're good to go.
cybercita at 7:21PM on 02/20/08
frederika, the carcass imparts plenty of flavor, and actually adds so much collagen that the stock gels when refrigerated. I usually use two carcasses if I'm doing chicken. The biggest trick is to use only as much water as needed to cover the goodies, and simmer it a good long time (several hours, up to 12). I also usually break up the carcass so it takes up less space in the pot, and draws out even more of the flavor. If I have other raw bones and parts on hand, I'll definitely throw them into the pot, but it's not critical. You can also concentrate the flavor by putting the stock back on the burner and reduce it after you've removed it from the goodies.
Also, regarding skimming, I've found that if you ensure it never boils, and don't stir it, at all, skimming is generally unnecessary. I just cover it and let it stew. Never, never stir it or anything. The stock comes out beautiful, with virtually no "flotsam" swimming around, as long as you ladle it out of the pot. If you want to strain it, do it after you've removed it from the goodies. And, since I almost always end up putting stock in the fridge before i use it, removing the fat later is no problem at all.
LoCo at 7:58PM on 02/20/08
One other thing. A tall, narrow stock pot works best. Makes it much easier to ladle out the broth, and allows you to use less water. This is the one drawback to using a slow cooker (mine is an All Clad so it's very wide, not so deep).
But I still like doing it that way.
;-p
LoCo at 8:01PM on 02/20/08
@LoCo - My slowcooker is probably comparable to the All-Clads that I have seen; 7 qt. oval shape. What types of stock have you made in it that you have been very pleased with the results?
frederika at 8:57PM on 02/20/08
frederika, almost all the stock I make is poultry-based, simply because it's what I'm usually "stocked" to prepare (bad pun, I know). So, in the slow-cooker, I've done plenty of chicken and turkey stock. I've had a lot of success with cooking two whole chickens in the slow cooker (no added liquid), pick the meat off the carcasses, return the bones, etc., to the crock along with aromatics and liquid to barely cover. I like to do the chicken overnight on low, then cook the carcasses on low all day long (8-12 hours) if my schedule works out that way. The hardest part is ladling out the broth, because you have to tilt that heavy crock. But it's worth it.
The slow cooker also works really well for vegetable stock, which is so easy to ruin by overcooking. Keep it on low, and don't go too long. I haven't done that in a while, but used to do it when my brother and sister-in-law were going to be dining with us (recovering vegetarians).
In about a week or two, I'll be making beef stock from some bones I have left over from rib roasts. I plan on trying that in the slow cooker, but I haven't done it that way before.
LoCo at 11:48PM on 02/20/08
Stock isn't something I think about, it just sort of happens whenever there's a chicken carcass from a roast, or when I buy a whole chicken and there are leftover bit and pieces. I guess I just can't see the point of wasting it, if I can get some flavor out of it. So there's usually some sort of chicken stock in the freezer. Less often, I'll have turkey or ham stock on hand. Since I don't end up with leftover beef bones all that often, beef stock isn't something that I have on hand.
That said, I've always got some Better Than Boullion in the fridge, too. I use that sometimes when I make rice, or as flavoring when I need just a little bit.
dbcurrie at 12:33AM on 02/21/08
I make turkey and shrimp stock. I use mostly chicken stock, but I hardly ever make it; I buy it from Trader Joe's. When I cook with chicken, it's mostly boneless pieces, so I rarely have the opportunity to make stock. I guess I'll have the opportunity after Easter.
NuJoi at 7:58AM on 02/21/08
I prefer my own stocks but to be honest I rarely make the time to actually do it. (I've grown kinda fond of sleeping in my spare time) so I'll have to cast another vote for Kitchen Basics, I did recently discover Pacific Naturals mushroom stock and Love the stuff! unfortunately there is only one store that carries it and its a 55 min round trip. So when I go I stock up (pun intended)
huney_bumper at 8:49AM on 02/21/08
Vegetarian No-Chicken Broth
Blend:
1/4 c Salt
1/2 c Nutritional yeats flakes
1/4 - 1/2 t Turmeric
1/2 - 1 t Garlic Powder
1 T. onion powder
1/2 t. margoram
1/2 t sage
1 T parsley
Blend thoroughly into powder like consistency.
Store in a sealed container in the refrigerator.
colonendparentheses at 9:46AM on 02/21/08
A couple of people have mentioned the Pacific mushroom stock that they like so much. Is it a real "mushroomy" flavor? My SO is not a huge mushroom fan, although I use porcinis a lot and get no complaints. They just have a very rich, deep, almost beefy flavor, to me. I always save the porcini broth and strain it to freeze for later use.
Those of you that use leftover beef bones - do you then brown the bones before making stock with them?
@LoCo - What the heck is a "recovering vegetarian"??? LOL....
frederika at 1:31PM on 02/21/08
I try to make my own when possible, but I cheat often. I like to use the Pacifica free-range low-sodium chicken broth if it's on sale, but for my wallet's sake I like the organic, free-range, LS chicken broth at Trader Joe's, as well as the store brand from Whole Foods (here in Maryland, they're both $1.99 for a quart).
mrsbao at 1:56PM on 02/21/08
@frederika... When I make beef stock from bones, I always brown them a good long time in a very slow oven. But when I make soup or stew or pot roast, I just brown the meat really, really well -- just shy of burnt -- and then caramelize onions in the fond to get a rich brown broth. I just got back from the market and bought a big package of beef rib back bones for less than $1 a pound, so I guess I'll be making that beef stock sooner than I thought. I'm going to try the slow cooker. I'll let you know how it goes.
Re: Recovering Vegetarians... actually, recovering vegans... my brother's own tongue-in-cheek terminology. About 20 years ago, they went from omnivore to vegetarian, because they felt healthier when they ate that way. About 5 years ago, they went vegan. It just sort of happened, because bro is lactose intolerant, and eggs don't much agree with him. But about a year ago, they went back to eating fish once or twice a week, along with the periodic egg. They still don't do much milk, but they're eating certain cheeses that he can tolerate. Their health and weight have improved ten-fold since resuming fish. Thus the expression... it's much funnier when he says it 'cause he's such a clown ;-)
LoCo at 2:19PM on 02/21/08
@LoCo - I make all of my poultry and beef/veal stocks in the slow cooker, and I promise you, you won't be disappointed in your slow-cooker beef stock! In fact, once I started using my slow cooker for stocks a couple of years ago, I never looked back:-)
brooke29 at 2:44PM on 02/21/08
This stuff is so good I don't even consider it cheating!
srhcb at 9:51PM on 02/21/08
@srhcb - I have found Minors to be very good quality stuff. I know many restaurateurs and caterers use the products. They make a spicy plum sauce ( sometimes you can get it at GFS stores) that is killer good.
@LoCo - your bro sounds like a real hoot. I just read an essay in Laurie Colwin's book Home Cooking entitled "Feeding the Fussy". You could so relate to this essay. One Exerpt - "some people say they are vegetarians when they mean they do not eat red meat, leading you to realize that for some people chicken is a vegetable".
frederika at 12:44AM on 02/22/08
I always cheat and use a good store brand low sodium chicken broth. Not to get too far off the subject, why is it that it's such a chore to find low sodium when every book, recipe, chef, internet site recommends it?
bessfour at 10:00AM on 02/22/08
I make my own stock. Period. Nothing in a can is going to come close to what you can make at home with a little time. It's also cheaper. My chicken stock is a brown version unless it's for something oriental then it's a white stock. I use chicken wings as they are cheap, easy to get and have loads of connectives. I brown them well in the oven with a smearing of tomato paste. Then they go into my 12qt stockpot with some bay, thyme and peppercorns in a sachet. That is put into the oven now at 180deg. Skimming the top every 15 minutes for the first 2 hours and then let it go for at least another 6-8 hours. I put in my aromats in for the last hour and a half. I strain all the liquid through two layers of cloth and my stock ends up clear and without any floating bits.
I put the stock into some ice cube trays for quick additions to pan sauces, smaller freeze containers for larger use and atleast one gallon size for soup. My total cost for about 2 gallons of excellent stock is usually about $10 and I do it whenever I have a free day at home.
Bunnyman at 12:16PM on 02/22/08
@Bunnyman - how many lbs. of wings do you use for that?
frederika at 1:15PM on 02/22/08
@Bunnyman, where do you get "cheap" chicken wings? My area charges $2-$4 a pound for wings (not on sale), depending on the store. Which is the same or more than they charge for thighs and legs, and sometimes as much as split breasts! I'm in Orange County (So Calif), the land of strip malls, chains and planned housing. There aren't many "real" butchers around here, so I'm pretty much stuck with supermarkets and "gourmet-type" stores.
I do remember the days when wings were as cheap as or cheaper than whole chickens, but it's been many, many years since I've seen that. I'd love to have a source, because that's how I used to make stock.
LoCo at 1:29PM on 02/22/08
WOW there are a lot of good ideas here. I eat a lot of vegetables--and I feel guilty throwing away the onion root after cutting, the asparagus stalks (from breaking them), the tops of the carrots, the ends of the cucumber, the cores of bell peppers, etc.; so i throw them all in a bag and keep them in the freezer until it's full.
Then you just throw'em in your stock pot with a couple bay leaves and pepper corns and water...
...the most delicious (low maintenance) stock at no cost at all!
hungrychristel at 1:48PM on 02/22/08
I think that my wings are going for about $1.79 a pound. I end up using two "family packs" that weigh in about 8 pounds. So, ok it's more like $20 for a batch but that's still a lot cheaper than and will destroy flavor wise anything in a can.
Bunnyman at 5:40PM on 02/22/08
I do both...homemade stock and organic pre-made ......thanks for the slow cooker info....now it will be homemade stock only!!
elaine nan at 9:11PM on 02/22/08
I make turkey stock after Thanksgiving every year -- a lot of it, since we always have a huge turkey. I freeze it in 8-oz yogurt containers and use it throughout the year, as needed. The last few containers generally moisten the stuffing for the following year's turkey. Other than that, I buy organic, low-salt or not-salt broth.
Claire @ http://culinary-colorado.blogspot.com
ClaireWalter at 10:40PM on 02/22/08
Hey guys - I scored very good-looking meaty chicken backs @ WF today for $1.49 per # while I was purchasing my little 4# free-range beauty for poulet roti this weekend (not cheap). Check WF - I've never noticed them there before, but ask the butcher when they will have them available from breaking down the birds. They were $1 cheaper per lb. than the wings.
frederika at 12:04AM on 02/23/08
I cheat (pacific brand or trader joe's free range organic) unless its a special occasion. I have used Emeril's tomato roasted bone chicken stock for passover, however, and it was a huge hit. Just very, very time consuming.
Dantebrin at 11:54AM on 02/23/08
Today is Fond de Volaille Blanc Day (white chicken stock) ! I'm making a combination of Bouchon and French CIA recipes. It is looking beautiful and the aroma is unbelievable. I realized this morning that I didn't have a Spanish onion, only sweet, so I used that and added 2 cloves of garlic, as FCIA directs. I did celery and bouquet garni (FCIA) and am using Thomas's process. I am so excited to make risotto next week with my own stock, like maybe herb and fava bean - yum...
I can't tell you guys how grateful I am for all your tips and recipes. I can't believe it has been so long since I made my own stock. I've been just plain lazy. On that point, I must admit to snagging several cartons of Swanson organic veg broth for a buck at the Big Lots yesterday. It was a really good date and was highly recommended by CI. I'd rather add veg broth to rehydrate a dish than water, if need be. I'm doing a lot of fast-talking here because I don't want y'all to think badly of me! It's just to have on hand in case of an emergency!!!
frederika at 3:23PM on 02/23/08
Okay... another question for those of you who make beef stock regularly.
I always brown my bones, but I've never bothered to crack them first. It makes sense to me that it would be much better this way.
Do you crack the bones? Is it worth the effort and mess?
I'm going to be working with beef rib bones (left over from a cooked roast), and meaty raw back rib bones.
LoCo at 5:09PM on 02/23/08
I almost exclusively cheat. I'd love to say I don't. But I do.
ConschBTJ at 3:52PM on 02/24/08
Oh I absolutely cheat!
Not-so-lazy:
Crockpot - just through bones, veg and water in, turn it on in morning and voila! Few hours later, perfection.
So-so-lazy:
Pressure cooker- awesome results in 30 minutes.
Very-lazy:
a spoonful of Minor's stock concentrate (soupbase.com)
Steamy Kitchen at 1:35AM on 02/25/08
I make my own. Of course finding stock here in Israel... actually I don't think I've ever seen it.
My husband used to buy ready made vegetarian stock before he moved to Israel. I'm not sure there's a kosher brand that sells beef or poultry stock.
When I make a poultry stock, I'll either use several carcasses I've stored in the freezer (both chicken and turkey). If not, it's turkey necks and/or chicken wings and necks. Celery tops and celery root, carrots, onions, dill, parsnip and the greens. Black pepper and the barest hint of salt (Kosher beef and poultry are heavily salted during the koshering process).
Simmer for the better part of 10 hours and strain. I happen to use soda bottles to freeze the stock in. I feel safe using it since I only use it the once.
Kmelion at 6:16AM on 02/25/08