Nobody's going to agree on with my opinion on tipping.
After reading the articles at Augieland that Serious Eats here linked to in the Required Eating section (1, 2, 3), I got all mad. I was pissed off enough to write a comment that probably no one will read, and interested enough that I thought I'd take it over here for a little discussion.
Here's what I said:
I agree with some of the stuff in the third article, particularly on not ordering the filet mignon, but the rest makes me bristle. Why am I sucking up to the restaurant? I'm the customer; they should be sucking up to me.
I work in retail, and I don't get paid commission. If I have a great customer, I might work a little harder, but I'm expected to provide good service even to assholes. I certainly wouldn't punish a customer for not ingratiating himself to me. Why? Because it's my frickin job.
Augie seems entirely too concerned about what a bunch of strangers think of him. He advises us to offer some of the expensive wine we've just purchased to our server. I could get into how unprofessional it is to eat or drink alcohol on the job in front of customers, but I think I'll just quote my friend: "No! I'm not spending all that money to share my food with someone I don't know."
I'd like to add that I don't see it as greedy waiters being at fault here. I think there's something wrong with the whole system, the way I think retail stores that use commission are a problem. The most obvious reason is because in both cases, the customer is going to get ignored if they're not prepared to spend a ton of money. The one that bothers me the most, though, is that I don't like being directly responsible for somebody's electric bill payment. Restaurants should pay their servers a living wage so that I don't have to make up the difference, and if they need to, pass the costs on to us. That way poor kids and rich folks get the same standard of service and I don't feel guilty if I don't want to bribe my waiter into being my friend.
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19 Comments:
None of my links went through, so here: http://augieland.blogs.com/augie_land/2005/12/tipping.html
here: http://augieland.blogs.com/augie_land/2005/12/respect_your_se.html
and here: http://augieland.blogs.com/augie_land/2006/01/dont_be_a_touri.html
Aoife at 1:57AM on 01/23/07
I don't disagree. It gets tiresome to hear servers complaining that they have to live on tips etc. Last time I checked it was perfectly legal to switch to another career choice. I am a good tipper, and I base it on the service given. But I certainly don't feel obligated to tip just because I am worried my server can't pay for his/her phone bill. What I really hate is less than mediocre service ended by a giant friendly smile, "have a great night" as they hand you the bill with hopefull expectation.
ThatGirl153 at 11:21AM on 01/23/07
The tipping system in the United States is getting out of hand. 15% for "service"? In NYC, a lot of places expect 20% now. WTF?
I currently live in Shanghai, and having traveled quite a bit in Asia, I think the tipping system is great here! Read my typing - NO TIPPING EXPECTED NOR NEEDED! yeah!
However, a lot of places want to cater to expatriates because they think they are more willing to spend money, and encourage tipping for completely subpar service. Pretty attrocious if you ask me.
Note: tipping is still not required in these places, and the tips go to the restaurant, not the staff.
No need to tip in Australia. You can round up by leaving the last bit of change if you like, but unless you are in a Haute Cuisine restaurant, tipping is not expected nor needed. The higher relative prices on the menu (compared to what I am used to in the US) includes the extra amount they pay the staff - ie, a living wage. This was sticker shock to me, but you get used to it eventually.
Restaurants in Austral-asia are just like retail anywhere else. The price is posted, you order what you like, you pay your bill after you eat. No suprises or dirty looks from undertrained waitstaff who can't find a better paying job.
Note again: Americans, please follow the local customs and only tip if that is truly the local custom. I know it is a hard habit to break, but please, when in a foreign country, "do as the Romans when in Rome", not America, again, only tip if it is the local custom. Most employees in Asian restaurants think Americans are bloody fools. And yes, I am American.
fatbuddy at 11:09PM on 01/23/07
I've never really understood why the size of the tip should be based on the total of the check. A system based on the amount and quality of the SERVICE would be ideal, but I have no idea how that could be implemented. In the meantime, I leave the 20%.
grampart at 9:29AM on 01/24/07
In the US, the IRS assumes that a server is tipped 8% of the value of the food that the person sold. The restaurant reports to tax authorities how much each server sold, and tax withholding is based on an 8% tip rate. So if you don't tip, it actually costs the server to wait on your table as they must pay the IRS as if you did.
christine at 3:30AM on 01/27/07
As a diner, I'd agree to a mandatory 8% tip rate.
grampart at 10:36AM on 01/31/07
If your stance is that any one should suck up to anyone else on either side of the give and take between a restaurant and its customers I am sorry to say we may never agree about anything.
The first confusion may be that tipping as addressed at Augieland is part of the behavior of a person that frequents a place and experiences a different version of the occasion than the general fly by night public. The first assumption must be you wouldn’t want to frequent every place. You become a regular at a place you find unique and special. I don’t share wine with strangers, I share wine with people whose company I enjoy, why else would I want to be and thusly become a regular at that place.
Retail sales and restaurant service can not really be compared. If you buy a shirt from a jerk as opposed to a nice guy you still own the same shirt. If great food is served by a poor waiter the entire experience is different. Yet still in retail, if someone shops at a place frequently and is a pain in the ass the staff will happily do all they can to allow some one else to assist him, and a fondly remembered returning customer receives far more attention than an unremembered face.
I am afraid the discussion of whether tipping is a good or bad thing is has very little to do with my stance on tipping. You are not sucking up to a server; you are acknowledging a job well done as a component to an experience in the currently accepted manner. I don’t care if you tip or don’t, in a nut shell I feel good service is one of the major aspects of whether or not I enjoy a place enough to return regularly and should therefore be rewarded. Don’t agree? Fine but don’t then ask me why I don’t have a tough time getting reservations at your favorite places.
augieland at 12:35PM on 01/31/07
Some of you are trying to make this out to be more than it is. It's very simple, if you get great service and you feel like tipping the server, have at it. If you get anything less than great service, don't feel obligated to tip. People seem to forget that it is after all their decision. Think about the hundreds of nights you've eaten out and see if you can remember the servers that made an impression. Those are the people you tip, the entertainers. The people that make you want to come back and enjoy not just another meal, but an experience. Not the useless "order takers" that expect a tip at the end of the meal no matter how they perform.
It has gotten to the point in this country where customers are guilted into tipping even if they don't want to. Can you not leave a tip at a restaurant you like because the service sucked that night, and come back feeling comfortable? No you can't, you're now afraid of strangers bodily fluids being a new spice.
Certain restaurants in the Bay Area (food capital of the world!) have started a no tipping policy. They pay their staff better, the vibe is more relaxed come bill time, and to be honest the staff seems to be more enthused to be working there.
So, I either tip or I don't. More often, I don't. I don't need some server giving me the big "begger" smile. I smile back knowing that the fake smile will turn into rage when they see their tip. Hopfully it's a gut check for them and they will try to do a better job. Realistically they will continue to do what they do and the not so guilt free suckers will keep throwing down 20% when they deserve..........well minimum wage!
Lastly, you would think the restauranters would realize that they are giving poor service, because their staff knows they will still get paid. Good motivation.
jsanders at 4:54PM on 07/27/07
SOmewhat related- I was wondering about this the other night...if you're in a BYOB restaurant, say the food total comes to $25, and there's an uncorking fee of $12. Do you tip on the $25 total, or the $37? I guess at this price point its not a huge deal either way, but whats the etiquette for this?
Annmarie at 5:12PM on 07/27/07
Wow, we have some people with passionate (and divergent) opinions on tipping here!
I am usually overly generous when it comes to tipping, because I truly believe that people who work for tips need them. I am also into random acts of kindness and believe that giving someone a little monetary kindness can ripple on and on. Or it might not...I really don't care to speculate how far it has to go to be "worth it."
As far as wanting to make an impression on someone who has done a sub-par job: talk to a manager or the head waiter. They can then pass some *hopefully* helpful advice on to the waiter in question. Failing to leave a tip just comes across as cheap. Again, if your expectations weren't met, talk to someone. And, as a corollary -- if your expectations were exceeded, talk to someone!
You may not like it, but it's the system that Americans have to live with.
Dominic
the zen kitchen
dvchurch at 10:02AM on 07/28/07
I can't believe that article suggested offering your waiter some of the expensive wine!
I know that Gordon Ramsey has fired a server simply for drinking water in view of the customers.
As for tipping, as a former waitress who used to work really hard for her money, I'll give well to anyone who makes an effort!
B
Hand to Mouth
Making Stock of the Situation
A blog for the penniless gourmet
handtomouth at 10:58AM on 07/28/07
If the service was good I will then tip 15 to 20%.
I only offer food or drink to my server IF :
something is wrong with the taste of either before returning it.
so they can indeed confirm or deny what I say when returning it to the kitchen.
And if they don't want to taste it, I assume at that point they are more than willing to believe me, and not pass me off as a 'freebie-getter'.
If the restaurant is a 'no tipping' or fair wage restaurant, then I will not tip. Or if it is not culturally excepted no matter whether we think its fair or not, we should follow the rules of that country or culture.
I am polite and nice, and if I return again and again I usually get good treatment from whatever place I choose to frequent because they:
Know that I am not a 'difficult' patron. (=easy)
And that I tip and treat people fairly.
That equals a nice experience, with a fairly moderate table time turnover with tip for the server. And they do tend to appreciate that over and over again...along with serving you faster because they get to learn your styles and tastes.
If I get waited on terribly it is usually best to assume that is a place I am not going to return to or frequent, so no, I will not tip. Or I will tip accordingly...which is usually embarassing and infuriating to the serving when I leave them what I think they are worth. And if I do come back, I will explain my problem to the Maitre D and ask for another server.
I do not 'smooze' or 'suck up' to anyone, and I do not expect 'drama' or sob stories from my server. That should be saved for a counselor or maybe the bartender later that night...and then lets hope the server 'tips' the bartender accordingly for listening to it....
It seems pretty simple to me...be nice and informative, bring the food out in a timely matter, and work with me on problems (if there should be any) on the table, keep your hygeine to an acceptable level or better (the better will probably get the 20 percent) and you will get the tip.
tyronebcookin
tyronebcookin at 3:40PM on 07/28/07
See but the great thing here is, as Americans (land of the free), you don't have to live with the system! If you don't want to tip.........don't. There are a ton of people worse off than the servers of the world, but they don't expect a tip. You want to be a good Samaritan, send the hundreds or even thousands of dollars per year to Africa, South America or The Mid-East. Or are you just like the rest of the passport-less Americans that think we actually have poverty in this country. If you can't find a job that makes more than $10 an hour, it's your problem not mine. I've grown up in the restaurant business and everybody I know makes over 400K per year. You think restaurant owners can't afford to pay their staff? They are just happy they don't have to with all of the "do as your told" drones out there that will tip because they think they have to. The restaurants that go out of business because they have to pay a little bit more payroll will make room for the guys that up the customer service game.
jsanders at 9:48PM on 07/28/07
Wow...um, besides Bobby Flay, who in the restaurant world makes over 400K per year? I'm guessing not the servers or kitchen staff!
Annmarie at 10:06PM on 07/28/07
If you're really that concerned about the poor, you should save the money by eating at home and donate it. When you go out to eat, tipping is part of the expense. Period. Yes, it's a way for restaurateurs to pass paying their staff onto patrons, and it's not a great policy. But the way to combat that is by not patronizing the restaurant in the first place, by writing letters to the management explaining the problem, etc. - not by punishing the individual waiter unlucky enough to serve your table, and who, before tips, is unlikely to be making anywhere close to $10/hour.
producestories at 9:37AM on 07/29/07
I would also like to add that if you have friends that make at least 400k a year can you send them to my website http://tyroneandstephanie.com?
I could use all your tips and support every year when I visit 3rd world countries with the global charity Mercy Ships (mercyships.org)...where we do everything we can for the truly poor (surgeries, well drilling, community development, etc....)
So please, send the money on to my wife and I, because we work as volunteers raising our own support...and when we are in the states I work in the food industry to build funds back up, and my wife works as an RN and together we don't make 400K!
You will even get a tax credit/receipt from our organization for donating to us!
That is, if your serious?
I am.
tyronebcookin at 4:53PM on 07/30/07
A lot of good operators make great money in the food business. I have a feeling Bobby Flay makes a bunch more than 400K. It's not that
It's not that I'm so concerned about the poor, I was just trying to make a point that didn't really sink in for you. I will try to simplify it for you. I think you said
"not by punishing the individual waiter unlucky enough to serve your table, and who, before tips, is unlikely to be making anywhere close to $10/hour."
The point is everybody always makes the server out to be the hardest worked, most unlucky, poor SOB in the world. Thats the problem, everybody tips them out of pitty. Even if the waiter makes more than you!
I know a girl that works at a pretty nice restaurant, $40 a head or so. She makes almost $4K a month, lives in the most wealthy county in the country and she has a runner and a bus boy. All she does is learn the menu.
Also, I didn't say that I don't tip at all. I said I don't tip unless I feel like the waiter actually cares. Unfortunatly, more often than not, the waiter doesn't care.
So.....like I said, tip if you want, just don't do it because you think you have to. There is no law that says to give money to people that don't deserve it. If a server does a crap job, how is tipping him any different from giving money to the bum that washes your windshield without asking.
jsanders at 6:07PM on 08/01/07
jsanders quote: It's not that I'm so concerned about the poor, I was just trying to make a point that didn't really sink in for you.
OH, it sank in for me...I just like dishing out the sarcasm and dry wit just as much as you.
And since you don't care...NO TIP FOR YOU!
tyronebcookin at 1:02PM on 08/04/07
I do have a question about tipping. If you ordered a bottle of wine let's say it cost $300.00 and your food was also $300.00. Do you tip on the entire bill of $600.00 ?
Veron at 11:04AM on 08/06/07