Serious Eats - seriouseats.com

Scenes like this are best played out on screen, not in real life. That said, I would have to side with the owner of the coffee house in this case. I like to think of a cafe, bar, or restaurant as a place where I'm a guest. It's not an ATM. On the other hand, as a host, if one of my guests insists on something, no matter how distasteful, I'd probably give in to them, at least once, and then suggest that they don't depend on me for the same service in the future. I have a feeling that strategy might have softened this blogger's outrage just a bit.

lol

Apparently said barista is not familiar with the Americano? Or with the concept of espresso affogato, whereby the espresso dilutes/is diluted by ice cream? Or espresso granitas?

I'm not sure where I sit on this issue. I loathe thinking of a steak being cooked past medium rare, but my favorite cousin will not touch a steak unless it is well done. I would never not serve her a well-done steak.

But I am not a restaurant and cooking steaks does not earn me a living. So, I guess I'm leaning towards letting a business owner run his or her business in the manner they choose.

I'm guessing that this isn't the only coffee option in the area. The customer is free to go, it seems, anywhere else to get what they want. There's should be no rule that says the cafe in question must serve all things all customers want; only that they apply whatever rules they have for serving things fairly and consistently. They need not tell people what kind of coffee they must enjoy, only what kind of coffee can be purchased in that particular shop.

@SugarNSpice: I am with you. The policy is not the problem. If the owner of the business doesn't want to serve espresso on ice, he doesn't have to. From the original account and the owner's response, it is impossible to tell whether the barista was actually acting snooty, or if the writer was simply projecting that snootiness onto the barista because he saw the espresso over ice policy as absurd. (I am probably biased from my years as a barista, in food service, and in retail, but I'm kinda guessing it was the latter.)

Businesses have the right not to sell something they don't want to sell. Customers have the right to take their business elsewhere. Taking their business elsewhere is the sole recourse of the customer, but it is a powerful one. Customers are not entitled to have whatever they want at any time, just because they're customers.

Gosh, I guess my days of waitress boobie-touching are OVER. I mean. Coffee. Well, I suppose it's their right to run their business how they like, and actually it kind of makes me curious to visit! So maybe they're doing something right by being snobby about the ice! :-)

Both are right, both are wrong.

Customers are allowed to order items not on the menu, but they can't legitimately get angry if the business won't make it. That's why it's not on the menu - deal with it. But they also shouldn't get belittled or ridiculed for their tastes.

Meanwhile, a business owner has the right to decide what to serve in his or her shop, and refuse certain customer requests. It might be better, business-wise, to accommodate simple requests; it's definitely better not to pass on judgment on people, since alienating your customer base can dramatically affect your bottom line (and it's just plain douchey).

If the owner feels that would compromise the integrity of his product, fine - just don't be a self-righteous jerk about it.

I will go ahead and take the far out stance and say the store owner is a bleeping retard. Oh yes, I just went there. Yes, there is free enterprise and customers will be the ones who determine who is right and who is wrong. And then you realize it is not even about who is right vs who is wrong because it is about personal enjoyment of a product.

It is stupid of any company to say, "we make a product, and you need to enjoy it in this manner because that's how we deem it so."

Look maybe they service a niche market and they understand their customers... although that argument falls out the window when someone comes in and requests ice. So maybe they don't know their customers that well.

Philosophically it's retarded. Is there ONE way to enjoy ice cream? Or ONE way to enjoy burgers? ONE way to enjoy fruits?

Seriously, people need to unjam whatever is up their rear end if they are so uptight about stuff like this. Ice it.

Hmmmm...let's see. I put up my own money to open a business, with no honest expectation of success other than my own personal hope. Doesn't that give me the right to decide what I serve? If you don't like it, go to Bucky's (one closing near you anyday now!!!) or Dunkin Ray's. But don't whinge when I tell you that I'm not making it for you. The only entitlement in commerce is the one the IRS has on your profits...peace

If you take yourself and your coffee (too) seriously, you frequent establishments like Murky Coffee that take their craft and themselves just as seriously. To some people, it's not just a cup of coffee. From the barista's point of view, this guy is like the one who asks the waiter for ketchup to put on his filet mignon. So what if it's elitist? Don't go to a snobby coffee shop if you don't like coffee snobs.

@Erin - somehow I missed your Nicholson remark. I clicked the "note" link and then went to comments. Great minds think alike though, eh? ;-)

While Starbucks or another corporate coffee chain might serve the ice without flinching, he doesn't want Murky Coffee's top-notch beans to taste like a "ghetto latte."

The problem with the ghetto latte from the owner's view is not taste -- it's cost. It means the customer is saving money by not paying for milk and instead filling his/her cup with free milk or cream from the bar.

Someone said maybe the shop doesn't sell iced drinks -- not the case, if you read the full story you'll see that they offer other espresso drinks iced including iced Americanos. The difference is that this customer didn't want the extra water. Hence, leaving space in the cup and allowing him to make a ghetto latte (which he apparently had no intention of doing). I suspect this is the main reason the shop has this policy and not because they are worried about the taste.

My issue is that this place does make iced coffee beverages, and one with espresso no less. Why they are making a fine distinction on this one point is beyond me.

But hey, it's there right, and their business. Just don't expect to see me there -- I'm one of those awful iced espresso drinkers, because between the hours of breakfast and dinner, I like my coffee -- all coffee -- chilled. That's just the way I am.

"Customers are not entitled to have whatever they want at any time, just because they're customers."

But reasonable accomodation is key to return customers. The publicity generated by this non-incident is massive.

I would actually be more likely to frequent a business that sticks to their guns like this. Similarly, there is a restaurant in L.A. that does not cut their pizzas, and offers zero substitutions on anything on the menu. There are plenty of places that pander to bullshit requests, and people should go there instead. Would I reject a request for a welldone steak? Depends on how badly I needed the business. If I'm a hopping neighborhood joint and I'm getting the good stuff, Marin Sun Organics or something like that, hell no I'm not going to insult the life of that animal or the farmer by serving it well done. Money is not a substitute for integrity.

Not everyone wants to make a "ghetto latte" - some people just want a stronger iced coffee drink. An americano is, by definition, more diluted than espresso, and that makes for one weak iced drink.