PrintThe Future of the Jewish Deli
In these modern times of high rises on New York City's Lower East Side, health fad diets, and increasingly hard-to-find high-quality ingredients (Where can you get a good rye bread these days? Does anyone dry-age pastrami anymore?), can the New York delicatessen survive?
These questions were tackled Tuesday night at the Museum of the City of New York at a panel discussion titled "Jewish Cuisine and the Evolution of the Jewish Deli." The talk was moderated by food writer Matthew Goodman (Jewish Food: The World at Table), and the panel included food historian Joel Denker (The World on a Plate: A Tour through History of America’s Ethnic Cuisine); former New York Times restaurant critic Mimi Sheraton; Alan Dell, owner of Katz’s Delicatessen; Jack Lebewohl, owner of the now-shuttered 2nd Avenue Deli; and Mark Federman, third-generation owner of Russ & Daughters.
In the early days of delicatessens, each one was unique. Some were more Romanian in influence, some were more Russian. The dishes they served were based on family recipes passed down through generations and across oceans. Today, according to Dell and Lebewohl, the most popular deli sandwich meat isn’t pastrami or even corned beef. It’s turkey. And Federman laments the lack of orders for herring salad ("The Lower East Side isn’t 'whole herring' anymore, it’s 'Whole Foods'") and real, salt-cured lox—as opposed to smoked salmon. Foods like tongue and rolled beef are practically extinct. Sheraton related a story in which a deli-owning friend of hers joked that the average age of his customers was "deceased."
Delis are struggling today for several reasons. First and most important, the landscape of Manhattan is changing, and real estate prices are skyrocketing. Second, people are more concerned with their health, and a diet rich in deli and dairy is viewed as a threat to waistlines and arteries. Third, Jewish food isn’t in vogue. It’s not stylish or trendy in New York the way, say, barbecue is right now, so the appeal doesn’t exist for younger generations.
In 1936, the WPA Survey estimated that there were 5,000 delis and 36 appetizing stores in New York City. Today, there are only a handful of each left. The audience at the discussion sighed collectively over the mentions of days-gone-by "Knish Alley" institutions like the Garden Cafeteria and Ratner’s, but the mood was lifted considerably when Lebewohl revealed that the 2nd Avenue Deli would reopen soon on 33rd Street between Lexington and Third avenues—and when Federman announced that Russ & Daughters would be providing refreshments after the discussion concluded.
So what can we do to preserve these cultural and culinary institutions? Continue to patronize the ones that are left. In addition to Katz’s, 2nd Avenue Deli, and Russ & Daughters, there's the café in Times Square's Edison Hotel (known as the Polish Tea Room in the theater community), the Mill Basin Deli on Avenue T, Adelman's on King's Highway, and B & H Dairy Lunch on Second Avenue.
When you go, keep in mind what Richard Shepard, late correspondent for the New York Times, said about Jewish food: “When you eat it, 72 hours later you’re hungry again."
Remaining Delicatassens
Manhattan
Artie's Delicatessen: 2290 Broadway (83rd Street); arties.com
Carnegie Deli: 854 Seventh Avenue (at 55th Street); carnegiedeli.com
Katz's: 205 East Houston Street (at Ludlow Street); katzdeli.com
PJ Bernstein Deli & Restaurant: 1215 Third Avenue (70th/71st streets); 212-879-0914
Sarge's: 548 Third Avenue (36th/37th streets); sargesdeli.com
Stage Deli: 834 Seventh Avenue (53rd/54th streets); stagedeli.com
Queens
Ben's Best: 96-40 Queens Boulevard (Rego Park, near 63rd Drive); bensbest.com
Queen's Deli: 12209 Liberty Avenue (Jamaica, at 122nd Street); 718-845-2626
The Bronx
Leibman's: 235th Street (Riverdale, between Johnson/Oxford streets); 718-548-4534
Brooklyn
Adelman's Kosher Deli & Restaurant: 1906 Kings Highway (at East 19th Street); 718-336-4915
Mill Basin Kosher Delicatessen: 5823 Avenue T (Mill Basin, at East 58th Street); mssk6.bizland.com
Remaining Appetizing Stores
Barney Greengrass: 541 Amsterdam Avenue (at 86th Street); barneygreengrass.com
Murray's Bagels: Sixth Avenue (12th/13th streets); murraysbagels.com
Russ & Daughters: 179 East Houston Street (Allen/Orchard streets); russanddaughters.com
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22 Comments:
Where *does* one get a good rye bread these days? I was watching Seinfeld last night and the scene in a Jewish bakery (challah bread, marbled rye in the background) made me anxious to visit one soon.
sabrina at 12:02PM on 08/03/07
I'm afraid, terrified really, for NY's future. As all the old, modest buildings are replaced with shining towers and the people who have been here for generations and who defined this place are priced out of their neighborhoods, pretty soon there will be nothing left of the NY we know. The reason why all these plutocrats wanted to live here in the first place will be erased. The character of the city will just be a memory, or worse yet, a branding theme. I wonder what they will do when the city is no longer New York but New Dubai. What will their reasons be the stay here? Easy access to the Atlantic for their Yachts I suppose... Maybe they will get bored and leave, but by then it will be too late. Like locusts leaving after they have razed all that once lived here. Already, big parts of the city are unrecognizable. Honestly, what NYC needs to survive is a major, major economic crash, and maybe a nasty crime wave, so that the property values drop, and this place is no longer safe and desirable for the ultra elite who need 50 stories of glass and titanium, $2000 handbags, and HUMMER suvs to barrel down the streets in. I don't see any other way.
seyo at 12:43PM on 08/03/07
Seyo, people were offering similar laments 20, 50, even 100 years ago. The nature of NYC is that it is always changing. Unlike London or Paris, it does not treasure its connections to the past. And in the "good old days" that people always seek there was a lot of suffering and deprivation. Rent control and stabilization slowed the rate of change in from the Seventies to the Nineties, but once they began to disappear it was only a matter of time. And I really hope you're being facetious in wishing for an economic depression or a crime wave. People suffer and die in those situations. The New York you're longing for, the one in which I lived most of my life, is gone.
ronfrankl at 1:24PM on 08/03/07
I wish WA had more ethnically diverse places to shop from...it's depressing! When my hubby and I went to Chicago it was pure, culinary heaven...
cheffy at 1:40PM on 08/03/07
Ron, I am very much aware of what you're talking about. I was born, raised, and am still living here. However, the way in which the city is changing now is different. The changes are more permanent, and the character of the city, which survived through the previous waves of gentrification, is now being lost to a bland corporate internationalism. New York once had a distinctive architectural style. The new crap being put up could come from anywhere. In many cases, it does, as the firms being retained to design and build these new monstrosities are from out of town, and often out of the country. There have never been as many franchises in the city. The only businesses that can afford the rent are banks, national chains that take a loss just to have a brand presence here, and highest end luxury goods stores. As far as you plea for pity for all those who have suffered through the various upheavals, I empathize and I also volunteer my time to charity organizations. Even in these rosy times, the suffering goes on. It's just hidden better now, by those who are engineering the demise of our city. One of the things the Giuliani administration did to make the city more palatable to the wealthy was to buy one way bus tickets out of town for homeless people. I stand by my assertion that the only thing that can preserve NY as we love it is a depression, so that these vultures turn their eyes elsewhere.
seyo at 2:04PM on 08/03/07
You're wishing for an economic depression? You're giving me a clinical depression just talking about it. But go ahead and Iose your job, home, and savings--if that's what it takes to bring back New York deli. I can't figure out exactly how it's going to work, but if it seems logical to you, go on and dream!
annien at 2:12PM on 08/03/07
Ha Sabrina - I watched that episode, too, last night. Are you in LA?
I will always love corned beef and matzoh ball soup, but you will never get me to eat tongue, chopped liver, or pickled herring. I am Jewish, but never ate these things growing up. Maybe that is part of the problem. Kids who grew up in the 70s and 80s were eating more McDonald's than Deli, therefore, there is even less to pass down to our kids.
foodette at 2:21PM on 08/03/07
This post reminds me of a piece that Adam Gopnik wrote for the New Yorker last summer, about Bloomberg's vision for New York in the context of the changing nature of NY neighborhoods. He talked about how once all economic classes lived cheek by jowl, and now the city is increasingly balkanized. The business that once supported that disappearing crazy quilt are dropping off the map as well.
I grew up eating chopped liver, pickled herring, smoked fish of all kinds, pastrami, you name it. Tongue on rye with mustard was so common that I didn't think twice about what it actually was. These foods were Sunday brunch staples in my family. I can't believe their existence in New York--of all places!--is threatened.
There was a story in one of the local papers today about the disappearance of the egg cream, too. It's a changing New York, all right.
klg19 at 4:31PM on 08/03/07
It seems that rolled beef has disappeared completely from the menus of all delis. It was my favorite except maybe for a quarter pound of bulk-dipped cream cheese on dark, dark, chewy pumpernickel. Oh my!
CapeCodBob at 6:51AM on 08/04/07
Almost all the culture, and by extension food, that New York is famous for, is working class. Pizza, deli food, etc, this is the stuff of the people. Get the rich people out of town, and New York will be New York. Continue the current trend, and New York will be, as I said before, New Dubai. How do you get richies out of here? Recession and crime. It's been seen before. They will head for the hills, literally, and the people who actually MAKE culture instead of those who prey upon it, be they artists, musicians, pizza makers, or deli guys, will thrive unmolested. Sorry, that's just how it is.
seyo at 2:21PM on 08/04/07
just one more appetizing store to add to the list: murray's sturgeon shop on broadway and 89th street.
marmalady at 9:32AM on 08/06/07
I too am saddened as a native New Yorker to see what has happened here: creative people and even middle class folks are being driven out by the cost of rents and will never be able to own.
New York is becoming a playground for the rich and becoming more homogenized - especially Manhattan (that place is so over) - it's white elites who can afford to live there. But New York is the New York we all love because of it's diversity and once that is gone - well then we might as well move to Boston Y'all.
I'm a true believer of Katz's I take all non-vegetarian out of town guests there, love Russ and Daughters and would like to try Sammy's Roumanian. Anyone want to try that place with me?
Mischiefdish at 9:38AM on 08/06/07
After reading this post and sending it to my entire family, my parents, brother, grandparents and I all went out for kosher deli last night (but I left the city for my hometown on Long Island - if anyone is looking for a great Jewish deli in the city's vicinity, try Bellcrest Kosher Deli in Bellmore, NY). OK, we go there everytime my grandparents come in to visit, so we would have gone anyway...but we all felt we had a little extra purpose last night in eating our pastrami, corned beef, tongue, or chopped liver on rye. Dr. Brown's to drink, my grandpa's finicky order of getting "one with" and two orders of french fries, and a corned beef sandwich - fries to come with the hot dog, BEFORE the sandwich, not with the sandwich, etc (they always manage to get the order right so he has nothing to complain about)...and endless perfect pickles (half sour for me) and cole slaw. Delicious and perfect and completely satisfying everytime. There's nothing like the food and feel of a Jewish deli, and my heart breaks at the thought of losing any more.
rebeccadiamond at 11:15AM on 08/06/07
I lived through the horrific 70s and I get a little tired of people bemoaning the old NYC. It never was like a Woody Allen movie or a Molly Goldberg comedy. The city is much pleasanter now than it ever was. There's still plenty of room for middle- and even lower-class families. yes, Manhattan has gotten expensive. So what's new? I'm a freelance writer who managed on no salary to buy a nice apartment, and I resent when people ask for a crash to "return" the city to its "quaint" past.
Then again, I'm a vegetarian, so what do I know from delis?
hellskitchenguy at 12:13PM on 08/06/07
As newlyweds, we moved to the edge of Morningside Heights (100th and Amsterdam) in the mid-70's. I have no nostalgia at all for that era...the near collapse of the city's economy, crime, garbage strikes, etc. That all said, it's a very different place now and like seyo and others, I mourn the loss of much of what made NYC great.
On the other hand, I recently ate at Sammy's for the first time in years. It was expensive and I could hear my veins clogging with every bite...but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. Finally, I still love Sarge's at 36th and 3rd. It's a treat I save for a couple of times per year...just don't tell my internist :)
Scottzel at 1:58PM on 08/06/07
"The city is much pleasanter now than it ever was."
yes, as pleasanter [sic] as a lobotomy.
seyo at 4:04PM on 08/06/07
I recommend all true deli fiends to check out my site http://www.savethedeli.com which is specifically dedicated to this most important cause. Ess Gezunt!
mutant4 at 9:26AM on 08/07/07
CapeCodBob: Rolled beef is still available at Sarge's, the only place i beleive you can find it now. it is always fantastic
markcohen at 8:11PM on 08/15/07
Why isn't Sables Smoked Salmon included in the list of appetizing stores? The place is awesome.
1489 2nd Ave
New York, NY 10075
(212) 249-6177
arstein at 4:42PM on 10/22/07
If you want good rye bread go to:
Moishe's
It is on Second Avenue and 6th Street.
It makes real Jewish Rye.
And it is Kosher as opposed to the fake delis (like Arties, Sarge's, Stage, Carnegie, Katz) that people keep talking about. People who think Carnegie and Katz's are real deli probably also think that a McDonald's bacon and egg bagel is a real bagel.
nycdawg at 3:00PM on 10/23/07
As all the old, modest buildings are replaced with shining towers and the people who have been here for generations and who defined this place are priced out of their neighborhoods, pretty soon there will be nothing left of the NY we know.
Those "modest" buildings replace other buildings and the people who have been here for generations replaced other people who had been there for generations.
People who lament for economic hardship and crime to preserve some silly ideal, that very likely never existed, are just as bad, if not worse, than the "white elites" who "prey" on the culture. You'd rather people suffer so you can enjoy some kitsch culture.
SAMiller at 9:36PM on 10/23/07
Reading about all these delis is making me hungry. But for me delis are about something more than food: they're about nostalgia. Normally, I find all nostalgia corrosive and to be avoided, but nostalia for the deli is irresistable and not all that bad for you--like a pastrami sandwich once every other month: it won't kill you. So, to indulge... Ed's recent musings about delis past reminded me of the Strathmore Deli on Northern Blvd (I think) in Manhasset on Long Island. My parents liked it because they knew the owner who had worked (or partly owned?) the Turnpike Deli in Forrest Hills (which was a GREAT deli). The owner (I wish I could remember his name) was married to the woman who worked the cash register. There were numbers on her arms. "From the camps," my parents informed me quietly. At the time, it didn't seem out-of-the-ordinary for me to meet a Holocaust survivor. This was the Sixties and WWII was more recent history for my teenage self than the War in Vietnam is for today's young people. ...These are odd images to indulge when discussing delis, but my memories do point to the uniquely Jewish (and perhaps vanishing) sense of community one felt in a local deli when I was growing up. Everything felt famliar and family-like...in the good and bad sense of those phrases. I loved the food, of course, but the experience of going to the deli, was about much more than food. But honestly, I could go on for hours (or paragraphs)...so intense are the memories evoked by Ed's piece.
Mickey at 1:00PM on 10/27/07