The Food Lab: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
It's time for another round of The Food Lab. Got a suggestion for an upcoming topic? Email Kenji here, and he'll do his best to answer your queries in a future post.

[Photographs: J. Kenji Lopez-Alt]
Turkey Stuffed Turkey
Like many things in life, the problem with turkey can be boiled down to two things: the government and breasts.
For some reason, years ago, turkey breeders got it in their heads that people like white meat. As a result, turkeys have been getting larger and larger breasts (that stick out further and further from their bodies). At the same time, the government got it in their heads that people don't want to kill themselves while cooking and subsequently started to recommend cooking turkey to that state beyond death known as "165°F."
And while it's true that the dark meat of a turkey needs to be taken to 165°F if you don't like having bloody streaks in your meat—particularly the meat right around the joints in the thighs and drumsticks—the breast meat shouldn't go much beyond 145°F if you don't want the life to be squeezed out of it.

Couple this with the fact that breasts—which project far above the body of the turkey—cook much faster than the legs, and you find that by the time the legs are the requisite 165°F, sections of the breast are well above 180°F. The consequences are familiar to all of us: dry, withered white meat that only a boatload of gravy can rescue.
I was forced to search for an all-poultry solution.
For the past several years, I've made it my mission each Thanksgiving to discover a way to improve this sorry state of affairs. The most successful method so far was to replace the turkey with a suckling pig and feign ignorance when it arrived at the table all golden-brown and crackly. But my family caught on when my kid sister pointed out that turkeys don't have curly-cue tails, and I was forced to search for an all-poultry solution.
As we found out last week, brining can help mitigate some of this moisture loss, but only to an extent. Breasts cooked to 180°F are well beyond help. Some recipes recommend starting the bird breast-face-down in order to protect the more delicate meat from overcooking. This also helps a little, but not nearly enough. Besides, flipping a 20-pound bird halfway through cooking ain't exactly my idea of a good time.
Then, a few years ago, I had an epiphany: Just break it up.
Iteration 1: Bye Bye Rockwell
If the problem is that legs need to cook to 165°F, but breasts shouldn't go above 145°F, then why in the hell am I cooking them both together? I don't throw my peas in the same pot with my potatoes, so why should this be any different?
By breaking the turkey up into separate parts, I was able to take the breasts and legs to the right temperature without resorting to hot-oven acrobatics. Though a very easy solution that provided vastly superior results to the traditional bird, there was still a little problem.
While the bulk of the breast was perfectly moist from edge to center (thanks to brining), the tapered end of the breast still managed to overcook and dry out, meaning that at least one family member was going to get stuck with sub-par turkey (sorry, Granddad).

Drastically lowering the oven temperature helped—rather than cooking at a normal 300 to 350°F range, I roasted my turkey at around 250°F, which promotes a more even cooking between the edge and center, and between the thick and thin parts—but it wasn't enough. What I needed was a way to even out the shape of my turkey breast.
While I'm confident there are bioengineers hard at work developing turkeys with perfectly cylindrical breasts, for the time being, I'd have to resort to some kitchen surgery.
Iteration 2: On a Roll
So how do you take an unevenly shaped turkey breast and turn it into a perfect cylinder? Simple. Remove the breasts from the carcass, put them together head-to-heels, then wrap the whole thing up with their own skin, tie them to secure, and roast it. The legs get roasted separately.

Why?
- Even cooking. Because of its symmetrical shape, the turkey heats through along its entire length at the same rate. Nobody gets stuck with a dry piece.
- Better seasoning. By removing the breasts from the carcass, you expose more surface area, allowing the seasonings to reach the space between the breasts, hence reaching the center of the turkey roll. Similarly, brining is more effective (though with low temperature cooking and an even shape, brining is wholly unnecessary).
- Crisper skin. While it's possible to get crisp skin on this beast by popping it back into a 500°F oven for a few minutes just before serving, an even better way to do it is to sear it in butter in a big skillet on the stovetop—an endeavor that's reasonably simple with the breast's reduced size and more convenient shape.
- Easier carving. With no bones and an even shape, carving this turkey is as simple as slicing a tenderloin.
- Better gravy. With the entire carcass of the bird at your disposal, it's easy to make a delicious, very turk-ey gravy. I make mine by chopping up the bones, browning them, making a stock with aromatics, enhancing with some marmite and soy sauce, then thickening. Delicious!
- Your family will like you more. Unless you're a control-freak kitchen nazi (I am).
It all sounds great, right? And it is—but! After all the work I've done on improving those darn breasts, the legs are beginning to feel a little left out. Should they be content with their plain-old roasting? I think not!
Iteration 3: Turkey Stuffed Turkey
So what are the hallmarks of a great Thanksgiving turkey centerpiece? I'd propose the following four criteria:- Crisp, golden-brown skin.
- Moist, tender, flavorful meat
- Well-seasoned stuffing
- Stunning presentation
Up until now, I'd been focussing on 1 and 2. This year, my goal is to deliver the whole package.
First things first. Stuffing is what goes inside the bird. Dressing is a seasoned savory bread casserole that is baked separately.
Dressing is easy and delicious to make (hint: save the fat skimmed off the stock you made with the turkey carcass, along with a couple cups of the stock to make you're dressing. It'll taste just as good as if it were baked inside the bird). Stuffing, on the other hand, presents a few problems, not the least of which is that my rolled turkey breasts don't present a cavity to stuff. Even if they did have a cavity, stuffing a bird is just about the worst thing you can do to it (just ask Alton Brown). It requires you to cook the bird well beyond the stage it should be cooked to, and a bready stuffing has a tendency to suck the meat around it dry.
After a few days of tinkering with turkeys, I finally came up with the solution. It relies on an old French technique called ballotine, in which a bird is boned, stuffed with a forcemeat (aka sausage), rolled, and then either poached or roasted. To stuff the breasts, you first have to butterfly them.

I was expecting to put a great deal of effort and some precise knifework into the process, but happily, it turned out to be much easier than I thought. I simply laid the breast flat on its back, then used my fingers to lift up the tenderloin and open it up like a book. After that, I made a single incision with a sharp knife on the opposite side from the tenderloin, and opened that side out in the opposite direction, pressing the opened up turkey breast into an even, easy-to-roll, recatngular block.

The forcemeat presented me with an easy solution to the lonely legs problem: grind them into sausage. After experimenting with a few different flavors, I decided to give a nod to traditional Thanksgiving stuffing by making a sausage flavored with sage, onions, celery, garlic, and a little pork fat.
N.B. Two legs makes more than enough sausage to stuff the turkey, and have enough leftover for breakfast the morning after.

With sausage and butterflied breast in hand, finishing up the ballotines is a simple matter of seasoning the breast meat, spreading the meat on the breast, rolling it up like a log, wrapping it in the skin of the bird (which I'd carefully removed at the beginning and split into two large sheets—one for each breast), then tying them up to help them maintain an even shape while roasting.

A few hours in a low oven later, and the breasts emerge, ready to be seared in a hot skillet to crisp up the skin.

As the thing cooks, the flavor and moisture from the dark meat helps keep the white meat even moister. Without the connective tissue from around the joints of the thighs and drumsticks, the dark meat is fully cooked even at 145°F, so as long as you're armed with a good thermometer, there's no risk of dry meat here. The result is turkey in its most perfect form.
Moist meat? Check. Crisp skin? Check. Well-seasoned stuffing? Check. Presentation? Double-check. It may have Norman Rockwell spinning in his grave, but it has my family licking their plates (even Granddad), and isn't plate-licking what Thanksgiving should be all about?

Continue here for Turkey Stuffed Turkey »
About the author: After graduating from MIT, J. Kenji Lopez-Alt spent many years as a chef, recipe developer, writer, and editor in Boston. He now lives in New York with his wife, where he runs a private chef business, KA Cuisine, and co-writes the blog GoodEater.org, about sustainable food and cooking..
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21 Comments:
The recipe link doesn't seem to work...
velcerick at 8:58AM on 11/20/09
I was committed to doing the whole Norman Rockwell thing this year but after reading your article I'm convinced once again to break the turkey down. Having the carcass for stock is just too perfect.
My solution in the past to the turkey leg/thigh problem was to confit them while roasting the breast (I'm thinking turkey rillettes). I don't have a grinder for making the forcemeat; would it be possible to do with a food processor?
Tombolo at 9:11AM on 11/20/09
@velcerick: Links fixed. Thanks for the heads-up!
Carey Jones at 9:22AM on 11/20/09
@Tombolo
Turkey confit is great - almost as good as duck.
The forcemeat can be made in the food processor. Just chill the meat well, and grind it in batches of about 1/2 pound at a taime, pulsing the processor as you go. Won't be quite the same, but will still work.
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 9:52AM on 11/20/09
@Tombolo - you could also just go with the second approach, making the breast "log," and serving turkey rilletes or crisp turkey confit on the side.
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 9:53AM on 11/20/09
A question about the temperatures: I always assumed (and have read) that the 165° mark is about food safety, i.e. killing bacteria. While the turkey breast may appear 'done' at 145°, that's still a 20° margin.
Having had a bout of food poisoning (not from anything home-made, fortunately) that resulted in losing 10 lbs over Christmas one year and fever-induced hallucinations, you'll forgive me for be cautious about undercooked food.
My own preference is to either break up the turkey, or to flip it. I've never made a bird heaver than 15 lbs - and that's easy enough to flip.
stratusgd at 10:06AM on 11/20/09
The Temperature Danger Zone for bacterial growth is 41-135 F. 135 F and above is fine. Good restaurants cook poultry to 140-145 F.
Potentially Hazardous Food:
-Moist Foods
-Neutral or Slightly Acidic pH (bacteria grows well between pH's of 4.6 - 7.5)
-Foods High in Protein (Fish, Eggs, Poultry, Melons, Dairy, etc)
FAT TOM: Food, Acidity, Temperature, Time, Oxygen, and Moisture
(The conditions needed by foodborne microorganisms to grow)
Populations at High Risk for Foodborne Illness:
-The Elderly, Pregnant Women, Infants & Children, Medicated or Chronically Ill
(Raw Ingredients/Foods that are not fully cooked, like oysters, raw meats and sushi are not safe for this population to consume)
It's not all about cooking temperature. Food can also become unsafe by purchasing from unsafe sources, using contaminated equipment, chemicals or physical objects added to food, holding or reheating it at improper temperatures, not cooling hot food quickly if eating leftovers later, leaving food in the temperature danger zone for 2 hours or more, poor personal hygiene, unsanitary surfaces, contaminated cloths/towels that transport microorganisms and not washing hands.
More often than not, foodborne illness is caused by these issues rather than improper internal cooking temperatures in protein. The truth is that most people tend to overcook meat.
ChefR0bert at 10:29AM on 11/20/09
Once again, great article! I appreciate the step-by-step breakdown, and can't wait to convince my mom to STOP OVERCOOKING THE TURKEY!!
jujyfruit at 11:17AM on 11/20/09
@Chefrobert: Good information about food safety. I think a lot people assume that bacteria needs to be incinerated at leather-making temperatures when a much more reasonable temperature will do.
Also, you're handle always makes me think of Robert Irvine from Dinner: Impossible.
velcerick at 11:18AM on 11/20/09
@stratusgd
chefRObert is right - bacteria can be killed at much lower tmperatures. Pasteurization of milk takes place in temps as low as 145 degrees fahrenheit, and you can go even a couple of degree lower provided you give it enough time (30 minutes at 145 kills 99.999% of bacteria)
Also, the center of the turkey breast is not too much or a threat in terms of bacteria - it's the exterior that matters more, and that gets well above 145. Brining the turkey or salting it will also reduce bacteria count.
At the end of the day, if you want to be by the books and roast your turkey to 165, using this method of making it into an even shape will still give oyu better results that just roasting a turkey whole, so if you've been roasting whole turkeys to 165, give this a go, and you'll probably be happy with the results.
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 11:28AM on 11/20/09
Kenji, chefRobert -
Thanks for the info - I don't have a meat grinder (yet), but at least this gives me a goal for the next time I do a turkey.
stratusgd at 12:49PM on 11/20/09
I think turkeys generally aren't served with apples in their mouths, either, and they don't have delicious delicious short ribs.
Kenji, I seem to recall that the Turduckens you've made in the past had turkey breast that was quite moist, perhaps from all the fat oozing in from the duck.
Also, I'm such a sucker for stuffing rather than dressing. Can you roll some stuffing up in one of those rolls?
Aya Kristen Alt at 12:56PM on 11/20/09
I never have to go to these lengths, and I still end up with moist white meat, fully cooked dark meat, and an honest-to-God stuffing. Two simple steps:
I make a stuffing out of pork sausage, celery, apples, bread, and spices. My simple solution to bacteria? Cook the sausage before you mix it in the stuffing. Problem solved - the stuffing still sucks up lots of flavour from the bird (and my recipe makes a ton, so we end up with dressing as well, which is still good, but definitely tastes different) but it's fully cooked.
Second step: soak a triple (at least) layer of cheesecloth in oil, oil the breast, and then place the cheesecloth over the breast. After the first 45 minutes of cooking, baste every 20-30 minutes, paying particular attention to the breast. This means basting about 6-8 times, depending, for 2-3 minutes a time - 12 to 24 minutes total, which is a lot less than the time needed to dismember or debone the bird in the methods above. For the last half hour, carefully remove the cheesecloth so the skin can brown nicely. Don't just pull it off, as that might tear the skin underneath (hence the importance of oiling the breast before applying the cloth).
You end up with a beautiful, Rockwell-type bird, with a moist juicy breast, and crispy skin. I've used this recipe over thirty times, and never had a problem. Happy Thanksgiving!
KevinB at 1:07PM on 11/20/09
@Aya
You're right - there was one year when the turducken was moist, but that took a heck of a lot of work to get it that way.
Short version:
The problem: chicken is inside duck is inside turkey. Chicken needs to cook to 145, duck is better at 125, turkey needs to be 145.
Solution:
1. Bone out chicken, stuff, wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 145.
2. Bone out duck. Stuff with cooked chicken. Wrap in cheesecloth, poach until 125.
3. bone out turkey, stuff with duck stuffed with chicken, sew up, roast in low oven until 145. Remove from oven and rest
4. Roast in hot oven until brown and crisp.
5. Carve and serve.
See? Pain in the butt.
@KevinB
The problem with the stuffing is that even if you precook it, juices from the turkey drip into it while the turkey is roasting, so you still need to get it to come up to at least 145 before you can pull the turkey out, which means taking the turkey a little higher.
Of course, as always, if you've been doing something for years and are happy with the results, then that's all that matters! It's a heck of a lot easier than all this rigmarole I put my bird through anyway...
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 1:13PM on 11/20/09
I don't understand - why would anyone prefer a turkey over a suckling pig?
marchpane at 2:27PM on 11/20/09
I think I'm going to go for this, but there's one problem. I have to have drumsticks for my dad. So I'm thinking I'll get a couple of turkey legs to cook along side the bird. Any tips on working out the timing? Maybe start the legs a little ahead of the stuffed breasts?
mellycooks at 5:37PM on 11/20/09
Kenji, great writing and meticulous organization. Thanks for figuring this stuff out. And, love that photo of the half-tied ballotine. Reminded me of Gourmet (sob).
annerska at 10:35PM on 11/21/09
@mellycooks
No need - just make the sausage mixture using only the thighs, and keep the drumsticks on the side separate to roast. The recipe makes more than enough sausage, so if you leave the drumsticks out, you'll still have neough to stuff the breasts with, and have roasted drumsticks for your dad.
J. Kenji Lopez-Alt at 12:23PM on 11/23/09
That looks really yummy. I hope I can find the energy to try it. I actually own a meat grinder already.
Trilby at 5:21PM on 11/23/09
Kenji,
The second I saw this I was a man possessed. Just a perfect way to cook turkey, makes so much sense. I ran out, bought a meat grinder and got to work on Sunday. Probably excessive, but I brined the turkey after I broke it down. Used the carcass for a stock for gravy later. Monday, I rinsed off the brine and cubed the dark meat. Tuesday, ground the meat and began my attempts to roll the breast. I had a difficult time with this step for some reason, took me 3 or 4 attempts to get this correct. I suppose if I had a thinner breast this would have been easier. I found using a more traditional tying method worked better for me than using a series of string like you did. After roasting I seared it in some rendered turkey fat. Beautiful looking roast and it tasted as good as it looked.
I only had 5 people over for Thanksgiving Eve and I got away with using one of the roasts. I have a backup for Thursday's impending doom at my friend's house.
I don't think I'll ever cook a turkey another way again. Thank you very much for the inspiration and the foolproof instructions.
esarn at 8:22AM on 11/26/09
Kenji, will you marry me?
erancili at 11:01AM on 12/04/09