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How can you compare all the delicious turkey juice and fat that mixes into the stuffing as it's slow cooked inside the turkey to some lame bread casserole?

Simple, homemade bread stuff made with homemade white bread (no crust), butter, onions, celery, salt, pepper (and a little thyme), cooked inside a big turkey is fantastically delicious! One of the tastiest things in life!

Anyway, Alton has turned into a skinny lo-carb freak. Who cares what he says about food anymore?

I've been eating stuffing from inside the turkey every chance I've gotten through my 48 years. I've not gotten sick from it and have never heard of anyone else doing so. And the bag simply works. This kind of Spam from Alton Brown is why his opinions don't interest me at all.

Not to get to pollan on you but doesn't the risk of salmonella directly correlate to the quality of the bird? Sure industrial birds run a higher risk and since most people eat them maybe Alton is doing a public service but I was hoping for a more Brownian answer like how the hydrophylic bread sucked all the juice from the breast or something. If salmonella and e. coli are the reason to avoid stuffing then I'm not worried.

Alton Brown used to be cool. His anniversary show was a great example of how downhill he has spiraled. It's called stuffing. Semantics are only as useful as the meaning conveyed. Stove Top Stuffing. In a casserole dish.. in a turkey... they're both stuffing. Don't ruin the holidays with useless bickering over semantics!

Christopher also illuminates an important point. Small technical difficulty here. If your turkey has salmonella, and you have to cook the stuffing to 165 degrees to kill the salmonella, then you ALSO have to cook the TURKEY to 165 degrees, or the evil salmonella's still gonna getcha'!

We always cook it outside but that's only because its so good that the amount we make would not fit in the bird.

@FlavorCountry - I think the point is that to get the stuffing to 165, the bird on the outside will get over 165. Like...overdone.

I *think* that is the point. But maybe newfangled oven technology can overcome that?

I've only had stuffing from inside the bird once. It was Stove-top. My mother-in-law (who admits she can't cook). The stuffing was a thick, pasty substance, and the bird flaked apart like a mound of sawdust. She now makes a ham (or I cook when we go back east).

@FlavorCountry: This is one of the original fundamental Alton Brownisms. Whether you agree with it or not, he made it pretty clear in Season 1 of Good Eats. Maybe he's "not cool anymore", but this has been his mantra since he was a nobody.

We don't eat much turkey, but on the rare occasions we do, I baste the bird with melted butter, and use the pan drippings to put in the pan of dressing. And the dressing will have sausage in it, which also helps keep it moist.

I can no longer pretend. I just looked up "stuffing" on FN's website and found AB's recipe for stuffed turkey, in which he microwaves the stuffing for 6 minutes before stuffing the bird and putting the thing in the oven. I'm no food scientist, but doesn't it seem that if you put hot stuffing into a cold bird, the stuffing is still going to cool down before the inside of the bird gets up to 165? It seems like a fruitless (except for the dried cherries) effort to prevent contamination.

And who is this guy if he's stuffing turkeys with cherries? And what is a bird? We just don't know. ;)

@abercrombie--you have now made me reconsider those Christmas purchases I was going to make from Abercrombie and Fitch. Go spam someone else's site.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this.

You don't HEAT UP dressing and then stuff the bird, for safety reasons.

You also don't stuff the bird and overcook the turkey.

Simply put, you stuff the bird, get the bird to temp, pull it, unload the stuffing into a separate baking dish and then finish the stuffing while the bird rests.

All problems solved. You get the cooked-in-the-bird flavor, safety, and a moist turkey, too. No more drama. Yay!

Here in the UK you are always told that stuffing inside the cavity is a no-no for these reasons and that's why you stuff the neck end of the bird. If you remove the wishbone too (sorry kids) you can get those lovely slices of bothe meat & stuffing when you carve.

Try sticking the turkey's neck into the "dressing" wrapped up in foil. Stick that in the oven while the turkey's cooking, and you'll never know the difference. And the empty cavity will also let the hot air circulate better...

Yeah, I think you guys are missing the point of this article--in order for the stuffing to be safe to eat, you have to overcook the bird. The average person GROSSLY overcooks a turkey, each and every year, thus the stuffing is A-OK safe to eat.

tmj529's solution is perfect.

I cook the neck and giblets on the stove top while the turkey (a very large one) is starting to cook. Then make the dressing with the broth and neck meat. It ends up with plenty of turkey flavor, is cooked to perfection in a pan with a nice crust on it, and isn't risky.

In my experience, Thanksgiving turkey made the typical way is always over cooked--probably because of the stuffing technique. Until we started following Alton Brown's directions for making a turkey, it always required tons of gravy. Now the white meat is moist and flavorful, and the pan of stuffing is perfectly delicious! Don't knock it until you've tried it--maybe experiment another day of the year and see how you like it.

I just make corn bread to have on the side. Mostly because I don't particularly care for stuffing. Problem solved!

I just fry the turkey and make the dressing on the side...no debate in our house.

I really appreciate AB's concern for food safety. Nobody thinks they've ever sickened anyone, but the millions of people that get foodborne illnesses every year suggest otherwise. Around 80% of chickens sampled have campyloacter and/or salmonella. I'd bet the numbers are pretty high for turkey, too. Use a thermometer, like AB suggests, and make sure all parts of the bird and/or stuffing reach 165 for safety.

I always stuff my turkey with sausage, sage, and onion stuffing. I have for over 30 years and am still alive and gobbling. There is nothing better than the delicious moist stuffing infused with the juices, and there is never a scrap leftover. I line the cavity of the turkey with cheesecloth, stuff the turkey and remove the stuffing while the turkey rests and put in the oven to keep warm. My favorite is the ball of stuffing from the neck flap. Anyone who touches that will suffer slow death. Crispy on the outside, tender on the inside, it is my gift for all my labor.

Turkey is absolutely not overcooked at 165. In fact, 170 in the breast is more palatable than 165. About 180 is best for the fattier dark meat.

Remove from the oven at 161 in the breast for perfect post-oven heat rise in a decent-sized bird.

Just to throw this into the mix: for people who don't eat turkey but like stuffing, it is nice to have the stuffing as 'dressing.'

People who do eat the turkey can always take dressing, put their cut turkey slices on top of the mix, and then let the juices seep down and pour gravy on it, if desired. Those who do not eat turkey can take the stuffing and mix it with their veggies for juice. Then, everyone is happy. And if your turkey is so dry no juice dribbles into the stuffing, then you understand why I don't like turkey :)

WWPD
Sort of like WWJD, but it's What Would Pilgrims Do?? They'd stuff that bird, they'd also stuff under and around the bird. Who has room for 2 roasting pans in their ovens?? Not the pilgrims!

The probes that come with supermarket turkeys are set to pop up at 185 F, which is 20 degrees hotter than the government recommended 165 F for poultry. This is the reason most Americans have dry turkey on Thanksgiving. 165 F is recommended as more of a precaution for pregant women, young children and senior citizens, or those more susceptible to foodborne illness; these are the same people who shouldn't eat sushi. At 165 F, it ensures that absolutely no bacteria is present. However, any good piece of poultry you have ever had at a restaurant was NOT cooked to 165 F. At 140-145 F, the meat should be perfectly cooked and perfectly safe for the average healthy person. The temperature should be gauged between the leg and thigh area of the bird, but be careful not to hit the bone or the temperature will skyrocket. When the juices are clear, the bird is cooked. In truth, all bacteria should be annihilated at 135 F, but stick to 165 F if you have a more sensitive immune system.

"Food safety? C'est la vie..."

Don't you mean C'est la guerre? (Or as Bugs Bunny says it: "cest la gwerry.") Let's face it, there's an ongoing battle against dry turkey and sick stuffing.

I like the "in the bird, moister" version of stuffing.
The solution that works best for me is to make my "stuffing" in the crockpot.

Follow nearly any recipe for stuffing/dressing.
Put it in to a lightly greased crockpot.
Cook on High for 45 minutes, then turn to Low.

The "newer" crockpots that cook hotter in temperature will have the stuffing ready to serve after four hours on Low. If you then turn the setting on to Warm and sit at the table a couple of hours later, those who like the part of the stuffing that tends to crisp up outside the bird will have a ring of crispier stuffing next to the wall of the crockpot. Those who prefer the moister stuffing that tends to be typical of being made inside the bird will have the rest.

In my older heirloom crockpots, the stuffing can go as long as seven to eight hours on Low after the first 45 minutes just fine. You have to know your crockpots.

I own five crockpots of varying size, and they get a good work out at the holidays. With the bird for Thanksgiving, and the standing rib roast in December, oven space is at a premium since I do not have double ovens. I use my crockpots for everything, from soup, through sides, to dessert. Having electrical outlets and sturdy tables on the patio to set them up on also frees up counter space.

Consider the crockpot option! You'll never do a holiday meal without again. ;)

Oh...and "hi" everybody.
It's the holidays.
Time to return.
I'll try not to make a name for myself as a spammer again.
*blush*

Welcome back Gator Pam!

I think AB changed his opinion on stuffing. I caught an episode on Sat at the gym (no cable at home) where he was in fact stuffing a turkey with challah stuffing... which was pre-stuffed in a cloth bag.

I like stuffing the bird because, in my pseudoscientific experience, it seems to keep the breast from cooking as fast... seems like the bird cooks more evenly when stuffed. But, it's true... when you take it out, let's just say it's not something you'd want to serve to someone with a compromised immune system. So... stuff the bird, and make enough to bake some outside the bird as well. Eat the dressing while the stuffing comes up to the proper temp in the oven. Satisfy both the dressing AND the stuffing (with yummy drippings) devotees.