Anthony Bourdain and Marco Pierre White Don't Want Your 18-Course Tasting Menu
From left: Moderator Michael Ruhlman with panelists Marco Pierre White and Anthony Bourdain in New York on Sunday, September 14.
At a roundtable discussion at the Star Chefs International Chefs Congress yesterday, Anthony Bourdain and Marco Pierre White bashed elaborate tasting menus. (Moderator Michael Ruhlman mostly stayed out of the debate, but seemed to be a quiet cheerleader). "I want two courses, not 18," White asserted, recounting a horrible experience when the chef kept sending out plates. Three and a half hours later, he had no idea what he was eating—and he wanted it to stop. "I was a fool to go with the tasting menu. All I wanted was my bill, and they said no. 'You haven't had your pudding yet, sir.' I didn't want the pudding."
Pudding is hard to turn down, but sometimes the stomach just has no real estate left. This is why multi-course tasting menus can suck. You don't know what you're eating, or you're too full to pay attention to it. By the fifteenth course, you get nervous about a delicious pastry denouement, which you'll probably have to skip because you're so full.
"It's cooking by the numbers. I get painting by the numbers, but not cooking," White said.
White made it very clear he doesn't want a waiter to tell him how to eat. "One plate came with three pieces of lamb. The waiter told me what to eat first. I don't need him to, and trust me, they all tasted the same."
Bourdain and White model for photos after the discussion.
Other topics on tap:
Chef vs. Chef CEO
Bourdain: A chef has to be part CEO in this era. Especially guys like Saint Thomas (Keller) of Napa, who must balance his kitchen presence with his overall brand. Traveling around, promoting what he worked hard for, and thanking those people who helped him get there—that should be allowed. But I also understand people who pay that kind of money to trek out to French Laundry, expect to see him by the stove.
White: Do I want to eat at an Alain Ducasse restaurant? No. He's never there. It's just another restaurant. I'd rather go to the husband-and-wife-run one where they treat the restaurant like their actual home. A chef's physical presence is key to the operation. Joel Robuchon had three Michelin stars, but he never left his kitchen. It's like talking about the best football team in the world, Manchester United. If they didn't have Cristiano Ronaldo on the field, what would they be? His presence is felt, and it's enormous.
Chefs Aspiring to be Television Stars
Bourdain: Is it a worthy goal for a chef? No. You're f---ed if you're going into the business for that reason.
Julia Child
Bourdain: She struck the ideal balance between chef and chef personality, plus her recipes still work today. She could have been the Martha Stewart of her day with a huge multimedia enterprise.
Emeril, Mario, Gordon, Jamie, and Sandra
Bourdain: I think life post-Emeril is better than pre-Emeril. I think life post-Jamie Oliver is better than pre-Jamie. Do I think life is better after Sandra Lee? No. It's worse. Life after Mario Batali? Better. He gave us the smartest stand-and-stir show on television and never opened a cookie-cutter place. If you're a young chef, and you really can't get it out of your head that you want to be on TV, Mario is the guy you want to be. He's good for the world.
Pierre White: The last thing you want to do as a chef is belittle people in your kitchen (referring to Gordon Ramsay and his attitude). You're there to inspire, not belittle.
Ruhlman: But you were famous for bringing people to tears..?
White: Gordon brought himself to tears.
Advice for Young Cooks
Bourdain: Show up on time everyday. It says so much about your character. On time and ready to cook.
Marco Pierre White's Life Post-Chefdom
Ruhlman: Who are you now, Marco?
White: I'm just Marco. (Pauses) I am myself. It's a 24-hour job.
Related
Meet & Eat: Anthony Bourdain
Bourdain Rants About the Food Network
Michael Ruhlman, on Bourdain's Food Network Rant
Marco Pierre White on Gordon Ramsay
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15 Comments:
I have to agree with Bourdain, I love Mario! My favorite cooking presence on TV when actually cooking :)
Seina at 10:23AM on 09/15/08
I am reminded of an older French-speaking hostess who, during a wine dinner where each course was a "step", loudly asked the gentleman at the next table, "Are you doing number two?"
LunaPierCook at 11:19AM on 09/15/08
lol @ "Are you doing number two?"
Answer: " I will be soon enough if you keep feeding me like this!"
ronzoni at 12:09PM on 09/15/08
Wait... Marco Pierre White actually said "I get painting by numbers"?
Now THAT"S a scary thought....
Pointy at 12:40PM on 09/15/08
He actually said it! He gets it! Picture him in a little beret with his paintbrush, earnestly following the numbers.
Erin Zimmer at 1:32PM on 09/15/08
Oddly enough, I was just reading A Cook's Tour wherein Bourdain waxes rhapsodic over an extensive tasting menu served at the French Laundry. The posted quotes are from White, I know, but I have to wonder if his attitude's changed, or what.
sidebernie at 2:12PM on 09/15/08
@ Sidebernie, I was thinking the same thing. I've read A Cook's Tour and saw the episode where he went to the French Laundry and he loved it. I don't know if his opinion is changed or if it depends on the Chef that is preparing the 18 course meal.
pandar624 at 2:19PM on 09/15/08
My grandmother was a classically trained Italian chef. She believed in just a few standards. The ingredients must be fresh. The flavors must be good. The food must be hot. Food is love. I was raised with these tenents.
I find that the most successful chefs stick to them as well.
Do I like tasting menus? Not often. I do like little places of a variety of things off and on. Mainly I want a classic style meal. A starter, an entree, paired wines, dessert and an after dinner drink. I guess my age is showing.
I do not want to see everything that a chef has in his game plan in one meal. I want to have to come back and try something else. Experience tells me that if the tasting menu is the best that the chef has to offer, eventually I am going to grow bored.
I think the tasting menu genre should be a twice a year thing. Let's celebrate all this great stuff by just cooking the hell out of it this week only. This is basic business smarts. Do not beat it up keep the supply small and the demand large. Not every chef is rock and roll and smart. Mario was lucky he had Joe Bastianich. Whatever Joe touches turns to gold because his mother is a "classically trained Italian chef".
I love when I come full circle in my comment.
JerzeeTomato at 2:32PM on 09/15/08
I'm waiting for the tasting menu at Sonic to be rolled out.
foodvox at 3:22PM on 09/15/08
I'm sure they've had great tasting menu meals, but that doesn't mean they can't be of the opinion that it's not a great way to have a meal in general.
I think they are referring to the difference between a well balanced and thought out tasting menu and having a tasting menu just for the sake of having a tasting menu. It's the latter that they are disapproving of and probably more frequently encountered.
wunami at 9:39PM on 09/15/08
Poo ... disappointed in Bourdain ... A gourmand knoweth no greater injustice in dining than a chef that is satisfied ... Marco is a fossil.
kindageeky at 1:39AM on 09/18/08
Who cares what THEY have to say.
Famous people are snobs and I don't like them.
paris221966 at 2:02AM on 09/21/08
@foodvox: I hear ya! Then I could prove that the tater tots taste just like the onion rings just like the apple dipper things just like the ....
A tasting menu in theory sounds wonderful in that you can try all sorts of the chef's ideas - but 18 courses? That is ridiculous!
SayWhat at 9:16AM on 09/22/08
"Stand and stir" - that cracked me up. I just wrote about why I thought Mario's show was the best *cooking* show ever.
MichaelNatkin at 10:17AM on 09/22/08
@MichaelNatkin. Your comment is hilarious. The 18, repeat 18 course sitting sounds like a bourgeois county fair pie eating contest but with different pies and little pies, that a penquin advises which type glass of milk goes with each pies. How in Sam hell are you going to really enjoy anything after say six very rich courses with wine pairings? It would no longer be enjoyable it would be painful to most people, therefore why would anyone pay that kind of money for pain? It would be compared to drinking a shot of 80 year old scotch and enjoying it to drinking the whole damn bottle and spending the rest of the night in the loo and the next week with a wicked hangover.
pjracz10 at 5:22AM on 09/23/08