The Great Vegan Honey Debate
Can vegans who eat honey still call themselves vegan? In light of honey-eating becoming a bigger part of the vegan diet, Daniel Engber of Slate investigates the different beliefs and facts behind the great vegan honey debate. While one could argue that bees are exploited as industrial pollinators much more so than as honey producers, finding alternatives to honey is more reasonable than limiting one's diet to just wind-pollinated plants. It's safe to say that eating plants is also more important than consuming honey to maintain a healthy diet (or, you know, life).
Since honey is just a euphemism for bee regurgitation (or the alliterative "bee barf," as I prefer), it seems obvious that it fits under the non-vegan category. Should it be a major subject of debate within the vegan community?
"You either eat honey or you don't; to debate the question in public only makes the vegan movement seem silly and dogmatic," says Engber. If you're vegan and the "worst" thing you do is eat honey, I don't think it's something you should lose sleep over.
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13 Comments:
RE: "makes the vegan movement seem silly and dogmatic"
Ya think?
srhcb at 11:02PM on 07/30/08
Slate article says "hard-liners argue that beekeeping, like dairy farming, is cruel and exploitative. The bees are forced to construct their honeycombs . . ."
I see a market developing for a "Rachael Ray's Range Free Honey"....
DavidinCT at 12:05AM on 07/31/08
I'm forming a mental image of a group of vegan assholes trying to one-up each other.
"Oh, I don't eat honey, that's barbaric..."
"You savage! I only consume rainwater and sunbeams."
Doctrine at 12:31AM on 07/31/08
DavidinCT: Before I read your comment, I was thinking to myself, surely there's some bee/honey equivalent of free-range chickens.
I don't entirely understand veganism, as bees still produce honey in their natural state, and it would go to waste. I get not wanting to eat animals (though I am a proud carnivore), but I don't totally get not using animal by-products. In fact, I never even realize vegans didn't eat honey until now.
starbreiz at 3:08AM on 07/31/08
Isn't the dictionary definition of a vegan: One who does not consume animal products of any kind? I guess insects don't count then??
chiff0nade at 5:57AM on 07/31/08
News to me too, starbreiz. Since we both pondered range free honey, there has to be a marketing niche here. How much do you think Martha or Rachael would want to use their name?
When I was 8 or 9 we had range free honey. One of my friend's parents discovered a honeycomb inside the house . Two stories worth of honey. Along side the chimmey. We got big chunks of honeycomb which was so dark it was almost black. Wonderful. I felt cheated because a wall in our house hadn't been wrecked by bees (they had to tear siding off to extract all the honey from my neighbors place).
DavidinCT at 6:12AM on 07/31/08
@chiff - For some vegans, the answer is yes, they do not consume (or use) animal products of any kind. For others, they do not consume animal products that involve the exploitation of animals, and there is disagreement among vegans about whether or not that includes honey.
Most of the vegans I know (I am not one, but I have several vegan friends) don't eat honey. And none of the vegans I know are "silly and dogmatic" about their dietary practices.
producestories at 9:23AM on 07/31/08
I am not a vegan, but I feel this post set the tone for the comments that follow, that is that the debate is a silly one.
In defense of my friends that are vegan I did a little poking around. Here's the thing. Anytime profit and animals become intertwined there will be exploitation. Whether or not you extend your sympathies to animals of the insect variety is up to your conscience, but the bees are in fact exploited. Their honey is stolen, and they are fed sugar in replacement of it - which isn't as nutritious as honey. Beekeepers are not just taking the "extra." Queens are killed off prematurely - just like baby cows are killed to make veal as a natural component of milk production. Bees likely lose their lives every time honey is harvested.
A good bottom line idea in all of this debate is this: when profit and animals become intertwined, there is exploitation.
I read this website. It was the first one that popped up on google, but there is likely better out there.
http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm
I recommend the stealing honey paragraph. It gets to the heart of the the exploitation or not exploitation debate. A vegan eating honey is also consuming bone char processed can sugar - which is not open up for debate as being vegan or not vegan.
Novel ideas when they are first presented may often be depicted as silly or something to make fun of. When you are able to listen to someone's idea - different from yours - with respect and preserving dignity, great things may happen.
bingsy at 11:39AM on 07/31/08
In addition to honey, some vegans won't eat things made with red dye, since many red dyes are made from the cochineal beetle. Also, not all beer is vegan - many are filtered with isinglass, made from fish swim bladders. And some vodkas are filtered through bone charcoal, making them not vegan also.
Personally, however, I'm not vegan, and I find the above a little extreme. If vegans truly want to not use animal products, they'd need to stop driving their cars and heating their houses, because, after all, they use fossil fuels to do so.
madball911 at 8:35PM on 07/31/08
@bingsy - Thanks for this point. Respecting the beliefs of others - however foreign - when it comes to food is something that we all need to work on.
@madball911 - Your "fossil fuels" non-point is a lot like when my dad used to jokingly say "but what about all the innocent vegetables that died to make your salad??" - that is, mocking and not valid. Fossils aren't exploited, since they've been dead for millions of years. There is no industry that produces animals and processes them so that their fossils will become fuel.
If you shared the same beliefs as people who become vegans do, their choice not to use animal products wouldn't sound "extreme." I almost never go out to eat, and it seems "extreme" to me that many of my friends spend $30-$50 a day eating every meal at a restaurant. But to them, my practice of spending the time to make all my food seems "extreme." Neither of us is right or wrong - we just have difference practices and beliefs about our diets.
producestories at 9:01AM on 08/01/08
@producestories -
I admit the fossil fuel thing was a stretch. But I'll stand by my comment that certain things seem extreme to me, because I wasn't trying to speak for anyone else, and I didn't mean to imply that vegans themselves are extreme, or weird, or whatever. I respect their choices, just as I'd expect them to respect mine.
madball911 at 10:21PM on 08/01/08
@bingsy - the point madball made is still valid. Vegans are hypocrites - unless they're personally growing and harvesting every vegetable, how can they claim that their diet doesn't cause any suffering? These idiotic vegan zealots are whiny crybabies with no sense of perspective who feel like pushing their guilt trip about being at the top of the food chain on us.
Doctrine at 10:46AM on 08/02/08
@Doctrine - are you being sarcastic, trying to prove my point. If so, that is very good.
bingsy at 11:32AM on 09/14/08