"A good grape must suffer. Look at this soil—it's horrible, just rocks. And these grapes have character. The roots of these struggling vines are thin as hairs, searching down for moisture. The vines in the flat fields" — she motions to fields just a kilometer away — "have it too easy ... a silver spoon in their teeth. It's like people. Paris Hilton, she is not interesting. The fine wines of humanity, they are the ones who have suffered." (I had to ask, "Like Tina Turner?" She said, "Exactly.")