Would-be 'Top Chefs' Are Broke Chefs
It's rare that I come across a food or restaurant-oriented subject that I haven't at least thought or heard about, but Kim Severson's page one story about culinary school grads defaulting on their student loans is just that. And according to our new, smart as a whip resident web developer who has cooked professionally, Kim's story is just the veritable tip of the iceberg. In fact, our man, who wants to remain nameless, says that would-be chefs are weighed down by not only a mountain of student loan debt but also by significant out-of-pocket expenses incurred when they are just starting out. Things like knives, kitchen clogs, expensive restaurant meals, and cookbooks are essential but not cheap, especially when you are making $10 an hour. We'll have more on this story in the days to come. Do any chefs-to-be want to weigh in here?
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10 Comments:
I think what both of these individuals say is very true. In fact I got off the phone with my financial aid service this morning and I will be repaying my student loans from culinary school long after I begin to pay for college for my 5 year old daughter.
As a former culinary student, a former instructor at a major culinary school, and a person who had ten years of experience in the industry prior to both, I believe that it is of major importance for prospective students to work in the industry prior to school. I cannot stress this enough. Please go work in the food services somewhere. Even if it is at McDs, then you will see what a restaurant with excellent execution systems is all about, as well as how hot, sweaty, nasty, fun, invigorating, dirty, and both soul wrecking and character building it can be.
There are inexpensive schools out there. Your local community college might be one of them, and some of them can give you a fabulous education. Don’t think that by going to the top tier schools, you will automatically be making the big bucks. It won’t come over night. It might not happen for ten years. It might never happen, and yet you might be completely satisfied with your life and what you are doing. And then like some, it might just be a job, and the better you are paid the happier you will be. You will get the most from a school by taking the most in with you, not the most money, but the most passion, the most desire, the most willingness to listen and absorb and to be open minded.
You have to have a passion for what we do. If you don’t, no matter how many zeros follow the first number of your check , you will not be satisfied, and you wont be happy.
RichardF at 8:52PM on 05/08/07
Anyone wishing to cook professionally should follow RichardF's advice: Work in the industry for a while before enrolling in an expensive school. I attended one of the top tier schools mentioned in Severson's article. While many of my classmates had plenty of experience in the industry, many did not and were in for a rude awakening. Entering any career with sizable student debt is a burden but it is even more difficult to bear in an industry known for less than stellar wages. Those seeking professional training should make doubly sure that they are not signing on for more debt than they can service with a typical starting wage in their area. No matter what the admissions people might say, $30 to 40K starting salaries are not all that common. The ACF also has an apprenticeship program that might be worth exploring.
jpreardon at 10:07PM on 05/08/07
Are you kidding? Cooks are the poorest people in New York. That $10 an hour is gross, not net .... so do the math on that. Factor in ridiculous rents, loan payoffs, general living expesnes, transportation costs, a beer here and there, and bacially you are left with little. I've worked it kitchens and loved it, but I was always hurting. BTW, the NYT article should note that the CCI is probably one of the most expensive cooking schools in the world, and that the example student loan of $84,000 may not represent the average culinary student debt.
The Gluttonist at 1:00AM on 05/09/07
To second what RichardF said, I posted about this topic over on my site, and one of my readers had a great suggestion about attending The Midwest Culinary Institute at Cincinnati State College. $3k for a certificate, ~$6k for two-year degree. If you're really serious about culinary school, it makes to shop around. The CIA degree might be nice on your resume, but you'll still be doing the crap work in the kitchen for low money when you start.
megnut at 8:46AM on 05/09/07
This is one of the reasons I never went to culinary school keep in mind when I was 18 Johnson and Wales was 8 grand a year and that was over 25 years ago. One of the things that irks me is that since the food channel started they have made chefs into rock stars. Kids want to be a chef because it is cool. It is only cool if you bust your ass 70 hours a week and make a name for yourself. Sometimes not even then. This is the same as glorifying sports figures except that they make outrageous money. While it is amazing to be at the top of your game regardless of what your game is, the culinary world is hard work full stop.
I know so many chefs, who work hard and never even become well known.
Their food is amazing. They have talent and work hard. Food is a business and business is a leap of faith even with the best business plan.
The question should be to someone who wants to start a culinary career, Why? Also someone should be told what their earning potential is so they do not make expensive mistakes.
JerzeeTomato at 9:50AM on 05/09/07
Let chime in and add that I personally know several CIA trained cooks who are working for 15/hour at backwater restaurants, and several non-schooled cooks who are locally famous. I didn't go to Culinary School, and I have to admit that my views of the big ticket ones echo Michael Ruhlman's article in the March issue of Food Arts. There are a lot of great and famous cooks out there who learned in the trenches, but I would never gainsay any education. The community college option locally is quite good - one of the instructors at ECC is the best cook in the area.
That said, I did have large student loans to pay off on the wages of a restaurant cook. It's just that mine were from Law School!
Scotty at 10:06AM on 05/09/07
I was contemplating chef-dom as my choice for a career change (from successful Broadway actor). French Culinary Institute, among others, dangled the prospect of 'quickly becoming executive chef' after graduation (and after 80k in tuition). In my interview with them, they had a nicely wrapped package of many financial aid options, insisting how easy it was to borrow up to 100k to go to their school. I really dodged a bullet. First of all, I of course LOVE to cook. But, at 35, was I ready to sweat out making minimum wage for a few years to hopefully make sous chef, probably earning 35k then? I still love to cook, for my friends, at my house on the weekends -- a reward for my 10-6 job in the city that, while not nearly as exciting as mastering sauces, pays me what I would earn as an executive chef in a country club.
Marsh at 10:55AM on 05/09/07
Here is another side of this story. Culinary schools, including the expensive ones, can do a lot of good for a young chef, or even a not so young chef. My experience was that I was a self-taught cook, with a management degree and several years of kitchen management / executive chef title under my belt before I felt the need to borrow the money to go to school. The experience I had at school was maybe not so typical. I did not take a tour, I did not meet admissions reps, and I did not tour other schools. I had a game plan to go to a particular school and that’s where I ended up. It gave me the reasons why and how we do the things we do and allowed me to have a broader base of my educational and culinary existential pyramid. It did not automatically make me a great chef. It allowed me the chance to become one, and whether that has happened is up to my peers. Would I choose differently now? Possibly? Do I regret it? NO! I just wish I had the fundamentals that were taught at the school earlier in my career. (And I wish I had another way of paying for it.)
Later as an instructor at that same school, it became quite apparent that there were two main types of students. But there was one main type of admission rep and philosophy of the school (and it seems of most schools). Get butts in the seats (or kitchens, or classrooms). Theoretically the entrance requirements state: a year of experience, an entrance essay, an interview by a faculty member, and a number of other qualifications. In practice the school would waive all of that, all the time. This allowed the serious minded, knows what he is getting into student, to be mingled with a larger majority of the ‘hey its cool to be in cooking school, but I don’t know what I want to do with my life’ students. Schools main focuses are to make money. And even the passionate, gifted, ‘want to pass on their knowledge’ instructors are given the line that it is more important to turn out quantity, not quality.
My further advice is thus:
In your tour of whatever school, ask the instructors for their opinions of the industry and education. DO NOT TRUST THE REP! They are there to fill up the classes and will tell you anything. It is up to you to take your future in your hands and ask the questions of the people who might tell you the truth, those who have cooked professionally before, not those who are in the ‘sales of cooking school’ area. I don’t know how many times I gave speeches to prospective students and their parents and volunteered ‘gruesome industry tales and financial woes’, and then asked ‘are there any other questions?, I am here right now to tell you all about it….anyone?” And then the group would move on without really learning anything. Don’t be afraid to ask. And then evaluate those answers according to your needs.
RichardF at 10:20PM on 05/09/07
Kim Severson’s article about student loan debt and so-called “culinary schools” was rather shallow in my opinion. However, it generated some passionate and revealing “comments” from readers . . . readers from “high-school” age to readers reporting to be over 70 years of age.
I thoroughly read ALL 403 “comments” and found them (collectively) to be fascinating and illustrative in how they delineate what I find is a serious and increasingly cancerous condition in this country . . . lack of responsibility coupled with an entitlement attitude.
Before retiring, I was a practicing psychologist as well as a Professor of Psychology at a major American university. Having read hundreds of treatises, thousands of student papers, and scores of Doctoral-candidate dissertations, I thought that I was fairly well versed on the human psyche of the last half-dozen generations of this once-great Republic.
Let me say that I have NEVER read anything in the academic world that was as enlightening as the 403 “comments” responding to Kim Severson’s article (and to other posters).
For that in-depth look into the psyche of today’s generation, Kim Severson and The New York Times are to be congratulated. Indeed, I have copied and saved the editorial and its accompanying comments . . . and will seek permission to distribute it to aspiring doctoral students presently working on their dissertations in my former field of study.
DocChuck at 10:14AM on 05/10/07
dude, there's a restaurant paying $15/hour for line work???? sign me up!
dmarina at 4:58PM on 05/10/07